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Airport shooting points out a real problem shipping guns by air!

TurtleDude said:
could they be used for assault by battery?
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We may have uncovered the reason banners are pushing smart guns. They can ban the battery.

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PeteEU said:
How can my shampoo be more dangerous than a gun in a cargo hold? Love to hear how that would work..
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They are equally innocuous.
 
independentusa said:
The present airport shooting points to a problem with shipping guns by air in checked luggage. All the guy had to do was collect his gun, which he shipped legally with his checked luggage, go to the bathroom, unlock, load and start shooting. Every thing he did until he started shoorting was presently and perfectly legal. The problem is how to stop this from happening again and again. I have no solution to this problem. Maybe allow the shipping of guns but not ammo. Have to buy that after leaving the airport. I just don't know, do you?
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You realize that you can walk into baggage claim where there is no security right? What stops him from parking his car outside and walking in and doing the same.

You are right. There is a problem. Nobody dealt with this jackass and his personality disorder. So why aren't we trying to deal with personality disorders? Why are we talking about one object, when a bomb is easy to make? All it takes is planning. Something these people do ACTUALLY do.


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PeteEU said:
How can my shampoo be more dangerous than a gun in a cargo hold? Love to hear how that would work..
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While you should actually go first, I will go ahead.
Your shampoo can potentially be a peroxide based, liquid explosive. In your luggage, you have also placed a camera containing an improvised blasting cap next to said "shampoo". Similar scenarios have occured in real life.

Now it is your turn. How does an unloaded weapon create a hole in the fuselage? (Something which has never occured....)
 
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PeteEU said:
How can my shampoo be more dangerous than a gun in a cargo hold? Love to hear how that would work..
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How do you access the cargo while in flight? You obviously have never flown with a checked firearm. It has to be encased, unloaded, and checked by TSA. Dude. This is hilarious. An unloaded gun in an aircraft is no different than a stapler (unloaded). A hunk of metal.


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BretJ said:
While you should actually go first, I will go ahead.
Your shampoo can potentially be a peroxide based, liquid explosive. In your luggage, you have also placed a camera containing an improvised blasting cap next to said "shampoo". Similar scenarios have occured in real life.
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No they have not on a plane, they are the stuff of Hollywood movies.

Now it is your turn. How does an unloaded weapon create a hole in the fuselage? (Something which has never occured....)
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Ahh so now it is unloaded.. I see. Moving the bar a tad.

Regardless, you can see what can be done... transporting guns means they are in airports, where the unloaded gun can be loaded and kill a bunch of people in a terror attack. Had he not had a gun on that plane, then it would not have happened. The idea that you can transport weapons on US planes but not shampoo is beyond sad.. it is a bit like, you can handle a gun as a kid, but not allowed to drink a beer before you are 21... pathetic American non-logic. End of discussion.
 
PeteEU said:
Ahh so now it is unloaded.. I see. Moving the bar a tad.
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Actually, the gun was unloaded. You can't check a loaded gun into TSA/airlines for air transport. It's checked for loaded status prior to being accepted from the traveler.

Regardless, you can see what can be done... transporting guns means they are in airports, where the unloaded gun can be loaded and kill a bunch of people in a terror attack. Had he not had a gun on that plane, then it would not have happened.
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Every airline trip has two airports involved - he could have just as easily shot up baggage claim at his departure airport, which also doesn't have security blocking access to those parts of the airport.

The idea that you can transport weapons on US planes but not shampoo is beyond sad.. it is a bit like, you can handle a gun as a kid, but not allowed to drink a beer before you are 21... pathetic American non-logic. End of discussion.
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The ideas that you can't transport shampoo or drink before age 21 are sad in and of themselves. Ironically, we owe both restrictions to the British, for the bombing plotters and for the Puritans.
 
PeteEU said:
No they have not on a plane, they are the stuff of Hollywood movies.



Ahh so now it is unloaded.. I see. Moving the bar a tad.

Regardless, you can see what can be done... transporting guns means they are in airports, where the unloaded gun can be loaded and kill a bunch of people in a terror attack. Had he not had a gun on that plane, then it would not have happened. The idea that you can transport weapons on US planes but not shampoo is beyond sad.. it is a bit like, you can handle a gun as a kid, but not allowed to drink a beer before you are 21... pathetic American non-logic. End of discussion.
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Of course it is unloaded. The TSA won't allow you to check a loaded firearm. And there is no way for you to get to it from the passenger compartment, though I could see how some movies would lead you to believe otherwise.

The only way you could stop this from happening inside the airport would be to move the security checkpoints to the airport entrance. But then the killer would just attack people waiting in that line.
 
blackjack50 said:
How do you access the cargo while in flight? You obviously have never flown with a checked firearm. It has to be encased, unloaded, and checked by TSA. Dude. This is hilarious. An unloaded gun in an aircraft is no different than a stapler (unloaded). A hunk of metal.


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So you refuse to acknowledge that the unloaded gun in the cargo hold is subliminally whispering "kill, kill, kill" in your ear the whole flight?
 
Lutherf said:
So you refuse to acknowledge that the unloaded gun in the cargo hold is subliminally whispering "kill, kill, kill" in your ear the whole flight?
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I can't hear it over the subliminal whispers of "kill, kill, kill" from the aircrew attitudes, the cramped seats, the rubber chicken meal, the 12 hours in the air, the airport lines and the odors and noises coming from my fellow passengers.
 
PeteEU said:
No they have not on a plane, they are the stuff of Hollywood movies.



Ahh so now it is unloaded.. I see. Moving the bar a tad.

Regardless, you can see what can be done... transporting guns means they are in airports, where the unloaded gun can be loaded and kill a bunch of people in a terror attack. Had he not had a gun on that plane, then it would not have happened. The idea that you can transport weapons on US planes but not shampoo is beyond sad.. it is a bit like, you can handle a gun as a kid, but not allowed to drink a beer before you are 21... pathetic American non-logic. End of discussion.
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The bar has never moved. When you check a firearm on a flight, TSA takes the firearm and inspects it in front of you before TSA places it back in its container. Been there done that. Other than flight crew and law enforcement, a loaded weapon will not be loaded onto an aircraft. So again, how does an unloaded firearm put a hole in the fuselage.

As far as you first statement, liquid explosives have been used several times in attempts (successful or not). Look up KAL 858 or 454. In addition, as far as the disguised detonator, look up Bizarre Hindawi for a very interesting read. (Also highlights why it is important to check everyone instead of profiling).
Btw, I taught IEDs and advanced IEDs for 10 years after I retired as a military EOD operator. Yes, they go a bit overboard as far as liquids go, but for a legitimate reason...

Fact: Anyone can walk into an airport with a concealed, loaded firearm, walk to the baggage claim and do the exact same thing....Disagree?
 
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independentusa said:
The present airport shooting points to a problem with shipping guns by air in checked luggage. All the guy had to do was collect his gun, which he shipped legally with his checked luggage, go to the bathroom, unlock, load and start shooting. Every thing he did until he started shoorting was presently and perfectly legal. The problem is how to stop this from happening again and again. I have no solution to this problem. Maybe allow the shipping of guns but not ammo. Have to buy that after leaving the airport. I just don't know, do you?
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There's no problem that needs fixing. People check guns in their luggage all the time. How many airport shootings have their been?

Assume you put a fix a place and don't allow people to ship guns by air. What have you really accomplished? The guy will just shoot people in the street or in line for a movie or wherever.
 
PeteEU said:
Anything over 100ml ... like shaving cream or mouth mash, is considered too dangerous to be put on a plane.
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First that's carry on luggage. Second it's complete theater designed to make you feel good. It does nothing useful.
 
Gaius46 said:
There's no problem that needs fixing. People check guns in their luggage all the time. How many airport shootings have their been?

Assume you put a fix a place and don't allow people to ship guns by air. What have you really accomplished? The guy will just shoot people in the street or in line for a movie or wherever.
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Or walk into the airport, stroll over to baggage claims and do the exact same thing...
 
BretJ said:
Or walk into the airport, stroll over to baggage claims and do the exact same thing...
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Yup. Any place where people congregate is subject to this kind of thing. There is nothing anyone anywhere can do about it. Best you can do is try to identify crazies ahead of time and teach people people how to deal with the situation if they're the 1 in 100,000 who happen to be involved.
 
independentusa said:
The present airport shooting points to a problem with shipping guns by air in checked luggage. All the guy had to do was collect his gun, which he shipped legally with his checked luggage, go to the bathroom, unlock, load and start shooting. Every thing he did until he started shoorting was presently and perfectly legal. The problem is how to stop this from happening again and again. I have no solution to this problem. Maybe allow the shipping of guns but not ammo. Have to buy that after leaving the airport. I just don't know, do you?
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I don't see a problem with shipping guns by air, or any other legal method. That's not the trouble. The trouble is - crazy people shouldn't have guns to begin with.

The trouble is how do we determine that?
 
jet57 said:
I don't see a problem with shipping guns by air, or any other legal method. That's not the trouble. The trouble is - crazy people shouldn't have guns to begin with.

The trouble is how do we determine that?
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What else shouldn't crazy people have access to?
 
jet57 said:
I don't see a problem with shipping guns by air, or any other legal method. That's not the trouble. The trouble is - crazy people shouldn't have guns to begin with.

The trouble is how do we determine that?
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That jet we certainly agree on. Problem comes when mental health professionals, liability, privacy and civil rights all come into play. Very difficult situation.
 
BretJ said:
That jet we certainly agree on. Problem comes when mental health professionals, liability, privacy and civil rights all come into play. Very difficult situation.
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Right: so what do we do then if some crazy person gets a'hold of an AK and mows down 20 people? Just say "oops! another one got by us. well, that's the price of freedom".

It's like walking around on the freeway because of "our right to freedom of travel as Americans!" Instead of posting "No Pedestrains" signs and building overpasses...

It IS difficult. But we have to start somewhere to curb this stuff.
 
jet57 said:
Right: so what do we do then if some crazy person gets a'hold of an AK and mows down 20 people? Just say "oops! another one got by us. well, that's the price of freedom".

It's like walking around on the freeway because of "our right to freedom of travel as Americans!" Instead of posting "No Pedestrains" signs and building overpasses...

It IS difficult. But we have to start somewhere to curb this stuff.
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Or does any number of other things with the intent of easily killing large numbers of people. So how do we determine who and how we deprive of their rights to walk freely. Fact is that if someone is deemed too mentally unstable to own a firearm, they should also not be allowed to walk free.
 
jet57 said:
Right: so what do we do then if some crazy person gets a'hold of an AK and mows down 20 people? Just say "oops! another one got by us. well, that's the price of freedom".

It's like walking around on the freeway because of "our right to freedom of travel as Americans!" Instead of posting "No Pedestrains" signs and building overpasses...

It IS difficult. But we have to start somewhere to curb this stuff.
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well we certainly don't adopt your solution-banning everyone in America from owning an AK in order to pretend that will keep homicidal maniacs from shooting people. we need to start with THOSE who cause the problems rather than punishing honest people and hoping that stripping them of their rights will somehow prevent those already banned from owning guns won't violate that law
 
independentusa said:
I am not asking to ban guns, just a solution to a real life problem. Ranting about those who wish to ban guns doesn't do anything to solve this problem. I have often said that gun control is a laugh. We have over 300 million guns in this country. The time is long past to control guns even if one wanted to do so. We do need though to solve problems with guns when they become obvious. The problem of checked guns has become one of those problems. I am asking for solutions. My only thought was to not allow people who check guns to also have ammo along with the gun. They can always buy ammo wherever they go.
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So we should create a law that will inconvenience millions of law abiding people because one crazy person broke the law. Despite the fact that the new law will not stop a single crazy person who wants to shoot up an airport from shooting up an airport.

Sorry can't agree with your idea. Some times freedom is a bitch.
 
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