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Chicago gun deaths-highest increase in many years

What censorship?

The fact that the CDC is barred from conducting any studies on gun violence that may lead to tighter gun control laws.

And I say, why? Let the science lead where it may. If that means recommending that every adult who can legally own a gun do so, then do it. If that means recommending gun control laws as strict as those in the UK, then do it. That's the great thing about science--it cares only for the facts, not for anyone's preconceived notions.
 
If we could adopt the model that Colorado did a few years ago, which was to make IUDs and implants free of charge to women and girls who could not otherwise afford them, teen pregnancies would plummet. Imagine all the social problems we could solve with that measure alone!

I worked at planned parenthood years ago. what is the demographics of the teens/women in that state? I know PP gave stuff for free and had very good counselors and doctors and it didn't make much of a dent on inner city black pregnancies even though the PP clinic was situated near the highest density of poor blacks in the county
 
The fact that the CDC is barred from conducting any studies on gun violence that may lead to tighter gun control laws.

And I say, why? Let the science lead where it may. If that means recommending that every adult who can legally own a gun do so, then do it. If that means recommending gun control laws as strict as those in the UK, then do it. That's the great thing about science--it cares only for the facts, not for anyone's preconceived notions.

I keep hearing this nonsense and we wonder what doctors are going to find that is relevant to criminology and sociology. I think gun banners think liberal doctors will have more credibility with anti gun media types then say actual organizations that study crime and crime control.

Now it might make sense for doctors to study mental illness and how to treat those who are mentally ill so they don't go bezerker but crap like banning guns so the mentally ill cannot get them is just plain idiocy.
 
762 murders. Some are claiming the police are scaling back proactive policing. on a 60 minutes report-now being repeated on the CBS national news, 80% of those killed were gang members or associates of known gang members.

CBS '60 Minutes' segment covers 6 days, 55 shootings in Chicago - Chicago Tribune

its interesting that its police inaction, rather than a "lack of gun control" that is being discussed.

It's so confusing.

I remember you guys telling us years ago that the problem in Chicago is that we had strict gun control laws, no concealed carry, and a handgun ban.

And, of course, the more guns in the hands of citizens, the less crime.

All that gets reversed a couple years later, and murder and shootings spike.

Betcha data like this will never consider you to rethink your position!
 
It's so confusing.

I remember you guys telling us years ago that the problem in Chicago is that we had strict gun control laws, no concealed carry, and a handgun ban.

And, of course, the more guns in the hands of citizens, the less crime.

All that gets reversed a couple years later, and murder and shootings spike.

Betcha data like this will never consider you to rethink your position!

well I realize this is hard to fathom when one has a predisposition to think its a gun problem but when most of the killings are thugs killing other thugs-NONE OF WHOM can get a carry permit let alone legally buy a gun, its pretty stupid to try to pretend that getting rid of the city's gun ban-which ONLY had disarmed the people not causing the shootings-would make things much better. WE don't know how many innocent victims were NOT robbed or had their homes broken into. I heard the C Of P of Chicago claim that the spike in killings is almost entirely due to drug gangs fighting each other and while some of those killed are not drug gang members, they are reported to be associates or friends of said gangsters.

One thing the Chicago PD did not blame these shootings on were law abiding citizens who were now able to buy handguns and keep them ready for use in their homes
 
well I realize this is hard to fathom when one has a predisposition to think its a gun problem but when most of the killings are thugs killing other thugs-NONE OF WHOM can get a carry permit let alone legally buy a gun, its pretty stupid to try to pretend that getting rid of the city's gun ban-which ONLY had disarmed the people not causing the shootings-would make things much better. WE don't know how many innocent victims were NOT robbed or had their homes broken into. I heard the C Of P of Chicago claim that the spike in killings is almost entirely due to drug gangs fighting each other and while some of those killed are not drug gang members, they are reported to be associates or friends of said gangsters.

One thing the Chicago PD did not blame these shootings on were law abiding citizens who were now able to buy handguns and keep them ready for use in their homes

Wow.

That's some intense rationalizing!

I guess all that other stuff was just cover to sell more guns. Sure is working.
 
Wow.

That's some intense rationalizing!

I guess all that other stuff was just cover to sell more guns. Sure is working.

This is why several pro gun posters tend to dismiss the stuff you post here., Your posts ignore the facts in order to complain about people owing guns legally


you seem to think that for some reason, Honest people being armed will have an impact on criminals (who cannot own firearms) killing other criminals. you haven't examined if there has been a decrease in break ins or robberies of honest peoples homes which was the main argument for allowing honest citizens to keep handguns loaded and ready in their homes. You haven't discussed if there has been a decrease in shops being robbed because the robbers now know that the owners might be armed. generally people being armed is intended to stop them from being violently attacked or threatened with violence

criminals being killed by other criminals is not an issue that arming HONEST PEOPLE will impact.

not really hard to understand if you actually wish to examine the matter with an open mind
 
This is why several pro gun posters tend to dismiss the stuff you post here., Your posts ignore the facts in order to complain about people owing guns legally


you seem to think that for some reason, Honest people being armed will have an impact on criminals (who cannot own firearms) killing other criminals. you haven't examined if there has been a decrease in break ins or robberies of honest peoples homes which was the main argument for allowing honest citizens to keep handguns loaded and ready in their homes. You haven't discussed if there has been a decrease in shops being robbed because the robbers now know that the owners might be armed. generally people being armed is intended to stop them from being violently attacked or threatened with violence

criminals being killed by other criminals is not an issue that arming HONEST PEOPLE will impact.

not really hard to understand if you actually wish to examine the matter with an open mind

So more guns means...more homicides? But we just pretend all the victims are criminals? Guess that's one way of handling the cognitive dissonance.

That's what the facts currently show.
 
So more guns means...more homicides? But we just pretend all the victims are criminals? Guess that's one way of handling the cognitive dissonance.

That's what the facts currently show.


lets make this simple for you. the increase in deaths is not coming from legal gun owners according to the Chicago Police but rather from DRUG GANGS


so your pathetic and irrational attempts to try to blame the erasure of the Chicago gun ban-that never disarmed the criminals who cannot own guns legally in the first place- is really pathetic and rather indicative of the dishonesty we see from the anti gun posts

I get the fact that you want to pretend that honest people owning guns has some how contributed to felons killing other felons or their gang associates. but anyone who objectively looks at this realizes the cessation of the Chicago gun ban on honest people buying and keeping handguns (while state and federal laws still prevent CRIMINALS from BUYING OR CARRYING GUNS lawfully)has nothing to do with those criminals

here it is

Prior to McDonald v Chicago

who can own or buy pistols-NO ONE- Criminals or honest people

who did the killings-Criminals using guns they cannot own or buy legally

after the law was overturned

who can legally own Pistols or buy them-people with clean records

who is doing the killing

the same people who still cannot own guns or buy them legally

DUH
 
The election was good news for gangs, the Sessions nomination confirmed the continuation of the drug war.

And we are whining about the election endlessly , my God can we get past ALL your party's failures ? 1042 is not that bad . :lol:
 
You talking about this one? Gun Violence Should Be Treated As A Public Health Crisis, Study Says : The Two-Way : NPR

If so, I have heard this idea before, and I tend to agree with it. One thing that the Chicago police tried to do with this model is, as soon as someone was murdered, they kept very close tabs on everyone up to two degrees of separation from the victim. In particular, if the ones only one degree away had any outstanding warrants, even misdemeanors, the cops would pursue them with almost as much intensity as the murderer himself.

BTW, that article also alludes to the silliness of the censorship of anti-gun-violence research.

What would further gun centric research show concerning the violence that this study does not? Using the approach shown in this study solves much of the violence, gun related or not.
 
lets make this simple for you. the increase in deaths is not coming from legal gun owners according to the Chicago Police but rather from DRUG GANGS


so your pathetic and irrational attempts to try to blame the erasure of the Chicago gun ban-that never disarmed the criminals who cannot own guns legally in the first place- is really pathetic and rather indicative of the dishonesty we see from the anti gun posts

I get the fact that you want to pretend that honest people owning guns has some how contributed to felons killing other felons or their gang associates. but anyone who objectively looks at this realizes the cessation of the Chicago gun ban on honest people buying and keeping handguns (while state and federal laws still prevent CRIMINALS from BUYING OR CARRYING GUNS lawfully)has nothing to do with those criminals

here it is

Prior to McDonald v Chicago

who can own or buy pistols-NO ONE- Criminals or honest people

who did the killings-Criminals using guns they cannot own or buy legally

after the law was overturned

who can legally own Pistols or buy them-people with clean records

who is doing the killing

the same people who still cannot own guns or buy them legally

DUH

So more guns do not correlate with less crime?

Guess that talking point gets buried for a bit.
 
762 murders. Some are claiming the police are scaling back proactive policing. on a 60 minutes report-now being repeated on the CBS national news, 80% of those killed were gang members or associates of known gang members.

CBS '60 Minutes' segment covers 6 days, 55 shootings in Chicago - Chicago Tribune

its interesting that its police inaction, rather than a "lack of gun control" that is being discussed.

762 - .80(762) = 152

Chicago has 2.7 million people, or 27 x 100,000. So:

Total Homicide rate: 762/27 = 28, which is a Latin America, Third World like figure

Non-gang related: 152/27 yields a homicide rate of 5.6 per 100,000, which is the national average. Still high, but not ridiculously so.
 
It's so confusing.

I remember you guys telling us years ago that the problem in Chicago is that we had strict gun control laws, no concealed carry, and a handgun ban.

And, of course, the more guns in the hands of citizens, the less crime.

All that gets reversed a couple years later, and murder and shootings spike.

Betcha data like this will never consider you to rethink your position!

You need to read up on who is shooting who. The majority are gang bangers shooting gang bangers. As far as I know, they were not the ones accounted for when showing legal guns in the hands of citizens. I could probably say with accuracy that the citizens who purchased firearms legally, are not part of the violence equation.
 
You need to read up on who is shooting who. The majority are gang bangers shooting gang bangers. As far as I know, they were not the ones accounted for when showing legal guns in the hands of citizens. I could probably say with accuracy that the citizens who purchased firearms legally, are not part of the violence equation.

So you're saying that gun laws are irrelevant.

Than why did murders go up when gun laws were relaxed?
 
So you're saying that gun laws are irrelevant.

Than why did murders go up when gun laws were relaxed?

Did that happen?

I've got a question for you, why has violent crime been on the decline for decades despite massive increases of the number of firearms owned? More guns but less crime?
 
So you're saying that gun laws are irrelevant.

Than why did murders go up when gun laws were relaxed?

Gun murders went up because the police quit policing those areas of high violence.
 
Did that happen?

I've got a question for you, why has violent crime been on the decline for decades despite massive increases of the number of firearms owned? More guns but less crime?

Ok. So now we are back to more guns, less crime.
 
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So you're saying that gun laws are irrelevant.

Than why did murders go up when gun laws were relaxed?

You tell us and present some figures. In the mean time you can figure this out.


USA murder.jpg
 
So you're saying that gun laws are irrelevant.

Than why did murders go up when gun laws were relaxed?

For the same reason they went down at other times when they were relaxed. You are trying to find causation/correlation where it is very weak at best. According to the reports, the murder rate is the highest it has been in 19 years...Yet the gun laws were more strict 19 years ago. Why was the murder rate so high then?
 
So more guns do not correlate with less crime?

Not directly as there is no physical causal relationship. However if you figure in the known psychological factor that criminals who know there are more guns out there are less inclined to take risks. That translates to less CONFRONTATIONAL CRIME

Now examine that statement carefully there is nothing there which cannot be proven beyond doubt. Now that is how you present a solution or explain why something happens. Remember it in future because that is the level expected of gun control advocates.

Guess that talking point gets buried for a bit.

Discuss it as much as you like but do not present garbage or guesses and waste time.
 
So you're saying that gun laws are irrelevant.

Than why did murders go up when gun laws were relaxed?

For the same reason they went down at other times when they were relaxed. You are trying to find causation/correlation where it is very weak at best. According to the reports, the murder rate is the highest it has been in 19 years...Yet the gun laws were more strict 19 years ago. Why was the murder rate so high then?
 
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