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Nevada UBGC looks like its not going to happen

Captain Adverse said:
That's good news. IMO no one should be required to background check for a personal/private sale.

Of course, since I don't support firearm background checks of any kind because I hold that a right to keep and bear arms is inherent to any free citizen; I guess I am a bit biased. ;)
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they are placebos that distract the public.
 
Captain Adverse said:
That's good news. IMO no one should be required to background check for a personal/private sale.

Of course, since I don't support firearm background checks of any kind because I hold that a right to keep and bear arms is inherent to any free citizen; I guess I am a bit biased. ;)
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Reason and logic can never be construed as "bias". It is the unreasoned illogical manifestations of the delusional and agenda driven that one must guard against.
 
Captain Adverse said:
That's good news. IMO no one should be required to background check for a personal/private sale.

Of course, since I don't support firearm background checks of any kind because I hold that a right to keep and bear arms is inherent to any free citizen; I guess I am a bit biased. ;)
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So, felons and gangsters and cartel members should be able to just buy willy-nilly in private sales.

How does that help the rest of us?
 
jet57 said:
So, felons and gangsters and cartel members should be able to just buy willy-nilly in private sales.

How does that help the rest of us?
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How do we prevent them from buying in private sales?
 
Rucker61 said:
How do we prevent them from buying in private sales?
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Ahh, the evasive question...

YOU know more than I, perhaps you can tell us.
 
jet57 said:
Ahh, the evasive question...

YOU know more than I, perhaps you can tell us.
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Evasive? It's the root of the discussion. You seem to think that without UBCs, felons, gangsters and cartel members will be able to buy guns willy nilly, and by inference, passing the laws should have some ability to prevent those sales. You tell us how they would work.
 
jet57 said:
So, felons and gangsters and cartel members should be able to just buy willy-nilly in private sales.

How does that help the rest of us?
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Its illegal for felons, fugitives, and those under felony indictment to touch, hold, possess or buy a gun. Most things that are illegal you can do-and thus risk punishment. same with being a felon in possession of a gun, same with robbing a bank, poaching a deer, or rape. Your stupid argument is akin to saying anyone can kill you willy nilly. That's true but if they are caught they die or end up being toe-tag parolees. Why should possessing a gun be any different than armed robbery or murder?
 
Rucker61 said:
Evasive? It's the root of the discussion. You seem to think that without UBCs, felons, gangsters and cartel members will be able to buy guns willy nilly, and by inference, passing the laws should have some ability to prevent those sales. You tell us how they would work.
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Jet knows that the main purpose for UBGC-other than serving as a placebo-is to harass honest gun owners and serve as an argument for registration. He things a felon possessing a firearm-already a serious offense,should be treated differently in terms of how we try to prevent it-than murder, robbery or rape because his real goal is to pass laws designed to harass us. See Jet cannot sell or give a firearm to a friend, a family member or a coworker in his state. His main goal is to try to make sure the rest of us suffer the same stupid laws he and the other people in California who rolled over and played dead, live under
 
Rucker61 said:
Evasive? It's the root of the discussion. You seem to think that without UBCs, felons, gangsters and cartel members will be able to buy guns willy nilly, and by inference, passing the laws should have some ability to prevent those sales. You tell us how they would work.
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Felons gangster and cartel members are buying them NOW -WITHOUT UBCs! The idea is to slow down the trafficking of illegal weapons isn't it? So, tell me how a road block doesn't create bottlenecks for all those attempting to pass through willy-nilly.

So, you also think that "felons and gangsters and cartel members should be able to just buy willy-nilly in private sales."

So, how would leaving all the avenues for illegal trade help the rest of us?
 
jet57 said:
Felons gangster and cartel members are buying them NOW -WITHOUT UBCs! The idea is to slow down the trafficking of illegal weapons isn't it? So, tell me how a road block doesn't create bottlenecks for all those attempting to pass through willy-nilly.

So, you also think that "felons and gangsters and cartel members should be able to just buy willy-nilly in private sales."

So, how would leaving all the avenues for illegal trade help the rest of us?
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stop telling lies. The main purpose of UBGC is to pander to slow witted voters. The second is to pretend something is being done, and the third reason is to create a demand for complete gun registration.
 
jet57 said:
Felons gangster and cartel members are buying them NOW -WITHOUT UBCs! The idea is to slow down the trafficking of illegal weapons isn't it? So, tell me how a road block doesn't create bottlenecks for all those attempting to pass through willy-nilly.
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A roadblock that's easily bypassed and isn't kept under observation isn't an obstacle, or at least that what I learned in EOBC. The law isn't enforceable without registration. The DOJ stated that in their 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies". UBCs do nothing to address straw purchases, theft or illegal street sales. They only create obstacles to ownership for those who will follow the law.

So, you also think that "felons and gangsters and cartel members should be able to just buy willy-nilly in private sales."

So, how would leaving all the avenues for illegal trade help the rest of us?
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No matter what the law, criminals will ignore it. UBCs only address legal firearms trade.
 
Rucker61 said:
A roadblock that's easily bypassed and isn't kept under observation isn't an obstacle, or at least that what I learned in EOBC. The law isn't enforceable without registration. The DOJ stated that in their 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies". UBCs do nothing to address straw purchases, theft or illegal street sales. They only create obstacles to ownership for those who will follow the law.



No matter what the law, criminals will ignore it. UBCs only address legal firearms trade.
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(chuckle)

If it was raining cats and dogs, you'd look out and say "no it isn't".

The idea is to tighten up the roadblocks dude.
 
Rucker61 said:
A roadblock that's easily bypassed and isn't kept under observation isn't an obstacle, or at least that what I learned in EOBC. The law isn't enforceable without registration. The DOJ stated that in their 2010 report "Summary of Select Firearms Violence Prevention Strategies". UBCs do nothing to address straw purchases, theft or illegal street sales. They only create obstacles to ownership for those who will follow the law.



No matter what the law, criminals will ignore it. UBCs only address legal firearms trade.
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if one's goal is to harass gun owners, then this plan makes sense. The main purpose of UBGCs is to pander to low information voters-and to create a demand for registration
 
jet57 said:
(chuckle)

If it was raining cats and dogs, you'd look out and say "no it isn't".

The idea is to tighten up the roadblocks dude.
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Rather than dealing with cute sayings, address the actual issue. The DOJ says they are ineffective. We know that they don't affect straw purchaees, theft or sales of the millions of illegal guns already out there. We've had UBCs in Colorado for over three years. There hasn't been a single arrest for breaking that law.
 
TurtleDude said:
if one's goal is to harass gun owners, then this plan makes sense. The main purpose of UBGCs is to pander to low information voters-and to create a demand for registration
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Laws don't prevent anything, we all know that. What laws are is weapons in the hands of prosecuters. A law requiring a background check in a private sale, seems to me, is intended to make honest people do the background check. Like it or not, if your state has that law you'll probably do the check, at least as far as the law requires, rather than risk having to defend yourself in court because some lowlife implicated you.
I'm assuming you know why background checks are in place and approve of them.
 
Grand Mal said:
Laws don't prevent anything, we all know that. What laws are is weapons in the hands of prosecuters. A law requiring a background check in a private sale, seems to me, is intended to make honest people do the background check. Like it or not, if your state has that law you'll probably do the check, at least as far as the law requires, rather than risk having to defend yourself in court because some lowlife implicated you.
I'm assuming you know why background checks are in place and approve of them.
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I don't approve of the federal government requiring them because I don't think the federal government has any such power. What I do approve of-given the law is in place-is actually prosecuting people who lie on the forms. If you are caught with a gun you bought through a dealer and you are a felon, you have committed two crimes-possession of a firearm by a felon and LYING on the form under oath

but most of what you say is true. The way the law stops crime is by putting people in prison who tend to violate laws -when in prison, its hard to rob or rape, steal or murder

Gun banners understand that most honest people will comply with laws that prevent them from doing stuff that harms no one. But when the goal is to harass lawful gun owners, the law is then a success
 
Grand Mal said:
Laws don't prevent anything, we all know that. What laws are is weapons in the hands of prosecuters. A law requiring a background check in a private sale, seems to me, is intended to make honest people do the background check. Like it or not, if your state has that law you'll probably do the check, at least as far as the law requires, rather than risk having to defend yourself in court because some lowlife implicated you.
I'm assuming you know why background checks are in place and approve of them.
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Why are they in place? How are they enforceable without registration?
 
Rucker61 said:
Why are they in place? How are they enforceable without registration?
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Why are there laws against violent felons buying guns? Any idea?
Hey, I don't care. If you're okay with violent felons legally buying guns, have at it. Remove all restrictions if you want. I'm just saying why the law is in place.
 
Grand Mal said:
Why are there laws against violent felons buying guns? Any idea?
Hey, I don't care. If you're okay with violent felons legally buying guns, have at it. Remove all restrictions if you want. I'm just saying why the law is in place.
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Does the Brady Bill keep felons from buying guns?
 
Rucker61 said:
Does the Brady Bill keep felons from buying guns?
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The background check isn't meant to prevent felons from buying guns, it's meant to prevent you from selling your gun to a felon. Does it work? That's up to you.
 
Grand Mal said:
The background check isn't meant to prevent felons from buying guns, it's meant to prevent you from selling your gun to a felon. Does it work? That's up to you.
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wow you just completely failed. The brady bill only applies to Licensed dealers making retail sales to non licensed purchasers (i.e. private citizens).
 
Grand Mal said:
The background check isn't meant to prevent felons from buying guns, it's meant to prevent you from selling your gun to a felon. Does it work? That's up to you.
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How does it prevent me or anyone from selling a gun to a felon? I own firearms purchased prior to any UBC requirements here that absolutely cannot be tied to me. The DOJ doesn't even believe that UBCs are effective.

Funny, the Colorado UBC law requires background checks for me to sell a gun to a CCW holder, a law enforcement officer, my best friend or even my wife. It even requires a background check for all members of a trust ahould a firearm he added to a trust. Know of many felons willing to tie their name to a gun they want to use in a crime in a legwl document? I thought a UBC was to prevent me from selling a gun to a felon?
 
TurtleDude said:
wow you just completely failed. The brady bill only applies to Licensed dealers making retail sales to non licensed purchasers (i.e. private citizens).
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Ah, so what. I don't know what the Brady Bill is, that's why I didn't mention it. I'm just talking about a law requiring background checks in private sales. Isn't that what the thread is about?
Same thing, though. As you describe it, that bill isn't intended to stop felons from buying guns, it's intended to stop licensed gun dealers from selling guns to felons. Am I right?
 
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