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Should SBRs and short shotguns be legal?[W:48]

blackjack50

blackjack50

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Can we please discuss this. Why should these be illegal? Especially shotguns. I never understood this.

*without a stamp**


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Last edited:
blackjack50 said:
Can we please discuss this. Why should these be illegal? Especially shotguns. I never understood this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Define legal. My SBR is perfectly legal. Built for pig hunting, it is a .300 Blackout AR with a 9" barrel.
 
blackjack50 said:
Can we please discuss this. Why should these be illegal? Especially shotguns. I never understood this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally the idea was that short shotguns were easily concealed under a long coat or other covering, for criminal purposes.

Given the existence of handguns, which are even more easily concealable, it hardly seems to matter that much. I suppose the shotgun's superior per-shot firepower was considered a factor, but it really isn't sufficient reason to ban them. Nobody wants to get shot with a .45 either.


Sort of like the arbitrary ban on handguns exceeding .50 caliber. Misplaced intentions.
 
blackjack50 said:
Can we please discuss this. Why should these be illegal? Especially shotguns. I never understood this.

*without a stamp**


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They are not illegal federally nor are they illegal in most states.
 
Ask a prison guard. Convicts are always bragging about their bullet wounds. You don't hear much from those shot with .45's or shotguns. Can't brag when you are dead.

The problem is crime. We don't want to take it seriously. We don't want cops stopping and frisking. We trade that for the ability of criminals to carry guns and drugs with impunity. We want to bitch and moan, but we do nothing but try to harass legal gun owners because they actually obey the laws.
 
blackjack50 said:
Can we please discuss this. Why should these be illegal? Especially shotguns. I never understood this.

*without a stamp**


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

With any firearm that is "illegal" the only answer is FEAR has made them illegal. Every single gun control law exists for only one reason FEAR.
 
BretJ said:
Define legal. My SBR is perfectly legal. Built for pig hunting, it is a .300 Blackout AR with a 9" barrel.
Click to expand...

Actually due to a bit of lobbying and not inconsiderable slight of hand the firearm you have is classified as a pistol. made no sense to me but that's what you actually own- a pistol and not a SBR...

How does it do for feral hogs? I use a 308 with FMJ out in the open and during hot summer days an AK clone for walking through the creek bottom... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Actually due to a bit of lobbying and not inconsiderable slight of hand the firearm you have is classified as a pistol. made no sense to me but that's what you actually own- a pistol and not a SBR...

How does it do for feral hogs? I use a 308 with FMJ out in the open and during hot summer days an AK clone for walking through the creek bottom... :peace
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Nope. It is classified as an SBR by our friends at the ATF. Has a standard A2 stock. I have the stamp to prove it. Also have the stamp for the suppressor as well.

As for feral hogs, still have not had a chance to try out the rifle. My old rifle was a .45 long. The round for this rifle uses a 225gr .308 pill moving at just shy of 1050fps. From what I gather, it should do well.
 
Goshin said:
Originally the idea was that short shotguns were easily concealed under a long coat or other covering, for criminal purposes.

Given the existence of handguns, which are even more easily concealable, it hardly seems to matter that much. I suppose the shotgun's superior per-shot firepower was considered a factor, but it really isn't sufficient reason to ban them. Nobody wants to get shot with a .45 either.


Sort of like the arbitrary ban on handguns exceeding .50 caliber. Misplaced intentions.
Click to expand...

I think that would be more correctly labelled fear
 
chuckiechan said:
Ask a prison guard. Convicts are always bragging about their bullet wounds. You don't hear much from those shot with .45's or shotguns. Can't brag when you are dead.
The problem is crime. We don't want to take it seriously. We don't want cops stopping and frisking. We trade that for the ability of criminals to carry guns and drugs with impunity. We want to bitch and moan, but we do nothing but try to harass legal gun owners because they actually obey the laws.
Click to expand...

The crime rate is actually below historic norms right now. So the idea that the nation is this dangerous, scary place is just propaganda.
 
blackjack50 said:
Can we please discuss this. Why should these be illegal? Especially shotguns. I never understood this.

*without a stamp**


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I still don't believe that the commerce clause was intended or can RATIONALLY be read as giving the federal government the power to have enacted the 1934 NFA and certainly the federal government's claim that if you make or modify a firearm to be a SBR or SBS in your home state and don't sell it across state lines, the federal government should have no authority over them whatsoever. I'd love to see the NFA repealed.
 
BretJ said:
Nope. It is classified as an SBR by our friends at the ATF. Has a standard A2 stock. I have the stamp to prove it. Also have the stamp for the suppressor as well. As for feral hogs, still have not had a chance to try out the rifle. My old rifle was a .45 long. The round for this rifle uses a 225gr .308 pill moving at just shy of 1050fps. From what I gather, it should do well.
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So it's a class III firearm, a different breed of cat. ANY 'illegal' shotgun or rifle is 'legal' if you pay the tax, and register it. I never got into stocked rifles with super short barrels, but then again I use mine out to 600 yards routinely.

Keep us posted on your experiences, I had students using the 6.5/223 series out to 600 surprisingly well, dunno about the Blackout... :peace
 
TurtleDude said:
I still don't believe that the commerce clause was intended or can RATIONALLY be read as giving the federal government the power to have enacted the 1934 NFA and certainly the federal government's claim that if you make or modify a firearm to be a SBR or SBS in your home state and don't sell it across state lines, the federal government should have no authority over them whatsoever. I'd love to see the NFA repealed.
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Well Congress should be on board to end government over reach, usurping state rights, and 'un-infringing' the 2nd A. We taking bets on that happening??? :peace
 
notquiteright said:
So it's a class III firearm, a different breed of cat. ANY 'illegal' shotgun or rifle is 'legal' if you pay the tax, and register it. I never got into stocked rifles with super short barrels, but then again I use mine out to 600 yards routinely.

Keep us posted on your experiences, I had students using the 6.5/223 series out to 600 surprisingly well, dunno about the Blackout... :peace
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The barrel is 9". Add the suppressor and it comes to just shy of 17". Makes the total package no larger than a standard AR.
 
BretJ said:
The barrel is 9". Add the suppressor and it comes to just shy of 17". Makes the total package no larger than a standard AR.
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AHHHH yeah that is a popular rig around the spendy 'tacti-cool' websites. Quite a few posts on the tacti-cool websites show the various rigs, again not my cup of tea but there seems to be a good niche market for them. The majority I've fondled use a 12" barrel for improved ballistics. Not into the system myself, gas block issues for some, like a bit more barrel and MV, but i'm old school, not into suppressors- fun to play with but soon the benefit seems a bit lacking for the price.

Still the idea of picking off pigs out at 400 yards without them spooking much does seem fun, though one squeal and it's off to the races... I hunt ferals here in OK, have you done much hunting out by you? Freakin fast once they decide it's time to go, thank Gawd for mildot... :peace
 
BretJ said:
The barrel is 9". Add the suppressor and it comes to just shy of 17". Makes the total package no larger than a standard AR.
Click to expand...

Makes me hope that the HPA will pass and integrally suppressed barrels 16" and longer can be purchased over the counter.
 
notquiteright said:
AHHHH yeah that is a popular rig around the spendy 'tacti-cool' websites. Quite a few posts on the tacti-cool websites show the various rigs, again not my cup of tea but there seems to be a good niche market for them. The majority I've fondled use a 12" barrel for improved ballistics. Not into the system myself, gas block issues for some, like a bit more barrel and MV, but i'm old school, not into suppressors- fun to play with but soon the benefit seems a bit lacking for the price.

Still the idea of picking off pigs out at 400 yards without them spooking much does seem fun, though one squeal and it's off to the races... I hunt ferals here in OK, have you done much hunting out by you? Freakin fast once they decide it's time to go, thank Gawd for mildot... :peace
Click to expand...

Was not that spendy. Put it together over time. The suppressor is made here in Florida and not very spendy and I picked up the habit hunting in the UK where practcally all the rifles I used were suppressed. Nice to be able to hear what's going on around you. Heck, the barrel was the most expensive part of the process. V
 
Incisor said:
The crime rate is actually below historic norms right now. So the idea that the nation is this dangerous, scary place is just propaganda.
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Absolutely correct but:

What is the purpose of propaganda?

Is it working?

If yes what should we do about it?
 
SBRs were kneejerk responses to gangster sawing off barrels. Now its just a means of control and its really rather silly. Short barreled rifles ARE legal...but require a tax stamp (and if I remember correctly the fee is $250). Short barreled pistols are legal and dont require anything extraordinary. You can put a stabilizing brace on a short barreled pistol and it is still legal. However if you shoulder the pistol it magically transforms to a SBR and you can be cited. Short barreled pistol grip shotguns are classified as 'any other weapon' and they require a tax stamp (but its only like $5). Of course, shotgun pistols like The Judge are just pistols.

Its pretty archaic. I think its just the BATF exerting control. The laws should be revised and those distinctions should be done away with.
 
notquiteright said:
Well Congress should be on board to end government over reach, usurping state rights, and 'un-infringing' the 2nd A. We taking bets on that happening??? :peace
Click to expand...

That would be like expecting the fox to look after the hen house. All arms of government are not going to compete with each other or bring one down
 
VanceMack said:
SBRs were kneejerk responses to gangster sawing off barrels. Now its just a means of control and its really rather silly. Short barreled rifles ARE legal...but require a tax stamp (and if I remember correctly the fee is $250). Short barreled pistols are legal and dont require anything extraordinary. You can put a stabilizing brace on a short barreled pistol and it is still legal. However if you shoulder the pistol it magically transforms to a SBR and you can be cited. Short barreled pistol grip shotguns are classified as 'any other weapon' and they require a tax stamp (but its only like $5). Of course, shotgun pistols like The Judge are just pistols.

Its pretty archaic. I think its just the BATF exerting control. The laws should be revised and those distinctions should be done away with.
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Revised to do what?

And then what would BATF do if removed?

Do you know why BATF exists and how it came into existence?

See unemployed moonshine cops and the NFA. Instant work for 5000 redundant moonshine cops with a source of funding.
 
Crimefree said:
Absolutely correct but:
What is the purpose of propaganda?
Is it working?
If yes what should we do about it?
Click to expand...

I think in that case, the purpose is to sell guns and make money for gun manufacturers and lobbyists. It's always about money. And yes, it definitely appears to be working as gun sales continue. Not sure what, if anything, can be done about it since there are about as many guns as there are people in this country. It's one of those battles that liberals aren't going to win. Just like Conservatives are never going to win the battle on deporting all undocumented immigrants.

Or it could also be about stripping away civil liberties and racial profiling...keep 'em scared that they sacrifice freedom and justice for security.
 
blackjack50 said:
Can we please discuss this. Why should these be illegal? Especially shotguns. I never understood this.

*without a stamp**


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

As has been said, the shotgun becomes a concealable weapon used by prohibition criminal, hence the 1934 Fire Arms act. My M1 has an 18" barrel, and others have shorter barrels, so in this day and age I don't see a problem.
 
jet57 said:
As has been said, the shotgun becomes a concealable weapon used by prohibition criminal, hence the 1934 Fire Arms act. My M1 has an 18" barrel, and others have shorter barrels, so in this day and age I don't see a problem.
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does anyone have a clue what this is saying other than insinuating if Jet cannot own it in California, he doesn't see a ban as being a problem
 
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