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Untraceable "Ghost Guns" On the rise in Florida

jimbo said:
First, homemade doesn't necessary mean highly inaccurate. TD pointed that out. Second criminals are not shooting minute of angle groups at a thousand yards. They're up close and personal. But not that as up close as required with a knife.

Durability isn't a problem either. Throwaway guns will do just fine. In fact the anonimity of a cheap homemade gun is an advantage.
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How about this guy who made an AK-47 out of a manure shovel. The accuracy was not bad either.

The link takes about a minute to load because it has 25 photos, but well worth the wait.

An Ak-47 made out of a shovel : theCHIVE

Who needs a 3D printer when you can go to a yard sale and get a sh!t shovel for $2.
 
Celebrity said:
In other words, I have failed to commit the logical fallacy of appealing to authority. Ergo, I have succeeded in nimbly avoiding your obvious logical pitfall.
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The old "fallacy" fallacy? Pretty weak sauce there Captain Fallacy....errr....Celebrity. But keep going if it helps you feel better about your argument...
 
BretJ said:
Perfectly legal to manufacture a firearm for personal use. This is nothing new at all. Tens of thousands of those 80℅ receivers have been sold and have been around for at least 10 years. Have any of these ever been found to have been used in the commission of an illegal act? What is concerning/sobering?
Personally, I find things like unarmed drivers driving untracked/unmonitored propane, natural gas or gasoline tankers sobering considering the potential.
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Is it ok for a boy scout to make a breeder reactor? We are talking about the construction of arms out of commonly available parts. What does an unarmed driver have to do with it? Nothing.

MickeyW said:
You have never had a logical argument.
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Argumentum ad lapidem is your fallacy, unless you are ignorant of the existence of arguments to which I have made logical contributions. I have made multiple logical arguments
 
Celebrity said:
Is it ok for a boy scout to make a breeder reactor? We are talking about the construction of arms out of commonly available parts. What does an unarmed driver have to do with it? Nothing.



Argumentum ad lapidem is your fallacy, unless you are ignorant of the existence of arguments to which I have made logical contributions. I have made multiple logical arguments
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where-lets start with your claim that the second amendment only recognizes a collective right.
 
TurtleDude said:
where-lets start with your claim that the second amendment only recognizes a collective right.
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Let's not, unless you can show that it is in any way related to the thread topic.
 
Celebrity said:
Let's not, unless you can show that it is in any way related to the thread topic.
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seems to me that the second amendment protects someone who wishes to create and own a "ghost gun"
 
Celebrity said:
Is it ok for a boy scout to make a breeder reactor? We are talking about the construction of arms out of commonly available parts. What does an unarmed driver have to do with it? Nothing.



Argumentum ad lapidem is your fallacy, unless you are ignorant of the existence of arguments to which I have made logical contributions. I have made multiple logical arguments
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Again, has there been an issue? So what? Your fears are unfounded and as irrational as worrying that someone would hijack a propane truck to destroy a shopping mall. People have been making their own firearms for years by the thousands. You are just now discovering this?
 
BretJ said:
Again, has there been an issue? So what? Your fears are unfounded and as irrational as worrying that someone would hijack a propane truck to destroy a shopping mall. People have been making their own firearms for years by the thousands. You are just now discovering this?
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Your assertion that my expression of logical debate is founded in fear is unfounded and as irrational as worrying that someone would come and take away your gun to further a liberal agenda. People have been deriving logical conclusions for centuries by the millions. You are just now discovering this?
 
Celebrity said:
Really, the Second Amendment protects the right to create and bear arms?

You're the expert, show me the precedent.
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what part of the constitution actually and honestly gives the federal government any power in that area?
 
Celebrity said:
Your assertion that my expression of logical debate is founded in fear is unfounded and as irrational as worrying that someone would come and take away your gun to further a liberal agenda. People have been deriving logical conclusions for centuries by the millions. You are just now discovering this?
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I have never made that assertion. So yes, your supposed logical "debate" is founded in irrational fear.
 
Celebrity said:
I'm sharing this article I saw a couple days back because I found a quote from the manager to be quite sobering.

For those who aren't familiar with the ghost guns, it sounds like a real loophole.


And here's what the manager thinks about buyers using ghost guns for illegitimate reasons.


Obviously this was in reference to the "Joe the Plumber" moniker which was thrown around back in the 2008 election cycle. At first, I found it funny. The name is funny, and I have to say, the level of stupidity by making such a broad, unfounded claim is amusing. But why aren't terrorists builders? Don't they build bombs? If they build bombs, then they should certainly be able to build firearms. I don't suppose mechanical engineering is any harder than chemical engineering or physics engineering.

Untraceable "Ghost Guns" On the Rise in Florida
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What people call ghost guns have existed long before incomplete recievers were in wide use.

They were often guns smuggled from brazil and austria, most likely made by workers of taurus and glock since they were knockoffs of those, from the defunct soviet union, or simply home engineering. A fully automatic sub machine gun can be made with parts from home depot, in cali the local police were finding alot of fully auto ak-47s, but they were not russian made, they were us made in someones garage, often with things like recycled pipes for barrels. They were heavily unreliable but the average buyer only needed one or two mags before they tossed it in a dumpster, and they were usually dirt cheap.

Firearms are surprisingly easy to make with decent machinery, heck in the days of flintlocks they made them by hand on a forge, with ancient measurement tools, so it is easy now for ssomeone with machinery to build them from scratch.
 
MickeyW said:
Afghanistan does that as well. 60 Minutes had an entire segment on homemade weapons. I've shot .45 Grease Guns, they are a real hoot and good in close quarters.
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When I was deployed to afghanistan, we confiscated alot of oddball homemade rifles and pistols. Granted this is afghanistan, They heavily used muskets during the initial invasion by russia, and kept using them until better weapons came about. Muskets and bolt action rifles they had in storage for many years, someone that determined to fight off an enemy that they would use a musket against modern weapons would not be deterred by making their own weapons.
 
TurtleDude said:
even better are new kits that allow you to cast a plastic lower receiver with steel inserts

but lets look at this RATIONALLY

its still a felony for a criminal to even possess a gun. since almost no criminals have legally purchased the firearms they use in crime, serial numbers don't mean a whole lot of anything in preventing crime. These unfinished lowers or casting kits have sprung up because of gun banners constantly talk about banning stuff.

And I will clue you in on some reality. Really well made fully automatic firearms were made in this country almost 100 years ago on machinery that is now obsolete and not nearly as good as stuff that many hobbyists have in their workshops. CNC machines can do stuff in an hour that took a week years ago. My father, a young naval officer in WWII-who had a background in machine tools-used the machine shop on the ship he was on to fashion copies of a British Sten gun that someone had obtained. The Sten gun, and the US answer to it-the M3 Grease Gun -were stamped and welded pieces of steel pipe essentially that were easily made quickly. In Pakistan, Gunsmiths with nothing more than anvils, and a few tools, make working copies of military rifles--some are awful but some are extremely well made and work as good as the weapons they ape.
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But it's a LOOPHOLE, we need another law on the books to make us safe!!! :lol:
 
Celebrity said:
Really, the Second Amendment protects the right to create and bear arms?

You're the expert, show me the precedent.
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What law is there against it? You going to stop everyone from having a machine shop?
 
Untraceable "Ghost Guns" On the rise in Florida

Celebrity said:
I am not sure what you mean. If they are untraceable weapons, then they might be called "ghosts." On the other hand, are 99% of the murders in your state acts of terrorism?
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So is "ghost gun" the new "alarming" name (with no real meaning) that gun control fanatics want to assign to guns to make them seem much scarier than they are? You know...like "assault weapons." Seems like it.

Hey. At least we they have dropped all pretense and are using stuff from silly kids books to scare the idiots. Next up...submachine guns will be called werepistols lol. Vampire shotguns.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Celebrity said:
I'm sharing this article I saw a couple days back because I found a quote from the manager to be quite sobering.

For those who aren't familiar with the ghost guns, it sounds like a real loophole.


And here's what the manager thinks about buyers using ghost guns for illegitimate reasons.


Obviously this was in reference to the "Joe the Plumber" moniker which was thrown around back in the 2008 election cycle. At first, I found it funny. The name is funny, and I have to say, the level of stupidity by making such a broad, unfounded claim is amusing. But why aren't terrorists builders? Don't they build bombs? If they build bombs, then they should certainly be able to build firearms. I don't suppose mechanical engineering is any harder than chemical engineering or physics engineering.

Untraceable "Ghost Guns" On the Rise in Florida
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"Joe the Plumber" and "Joe Terrorist" are rhetorical characters who really have nothing to do with one another, but you can bet your boots that somebody intending harm and looking for a clean weapon will quickly develop the skill set and tools necessary to complete a receiver, or just buy one on the black market. This is yet another example of how manufacturers and money are contributing to the problem of gun violence in this country and as long as idiots like Wayne LaPierre are allowed the power to manipulate people, this problem isn't going to go away. LaPierre and Alex Jones are cut from the same mold and have like agendas.
 
jet57 said:
"Joe the Plumber" and "Joe Terrorist" are rhetorical characters who really have nothing to do with one another, but you can bet your boots that somebody intending harm and looking for a clean weapon will quickly develop the skill set and tools necessary to complete a receiver, or just buy one on the black market. This is yet another example of how manufacturers and money are contributing to the problem of gun violence in this country and as long as idiots like Wayne LaPierre are allowed the power to manipulate people, this problem isn't going to go away. LaPierre and Alex Jones are cut from the same mold and have like agendas.
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A friend of mine...she owns a glock for home defense. Why do you insist on taking her only means of self defense?
 
blackjack50 said:
A friend of mine...she owns a glock for home defense. Why do you insist on taking her only means of self defense?
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Another random meaningless comment.
 
jet57 said:
Another random meaningless comment.
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Its a pertinent comment. Gun banners only pretend they are going to stop with say "assault weapons". If crime control is what really motivates them-why wouldn't they target handguns>
 
jet57 said:
"Joe the Plumber" and "Joe Terrorist" are rhetorical characters who really have nothing to do with one another, but you can bet your boots that somebody intending harm and looking for a clean weapon will quickly develop the skill set and tools necessary to complete a receiver, or just buy one on the black market. This is yet another example of how manufacturers and money are contributing to the problem of gun violence in this country and as long as idiots like Wayne LaPierre are allowed the power to manipulate people, this problem isn't going to go away. LaPierre and Alex Jones are cut from the same mold and have like agendas.
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First. Why would a terrorist worry about a "clean" weapon? Please explain how a "dirty weapon" would prevent him from carrying out a crime.

Lets start with that Jet.
 
Celebrity said:
Really, the Second Amendment protects the right to create and bear arms?

You're the expert, show me the precedent.
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What DOES the 2nd Amendment say?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Thats it. Now...what we KNOW...

The framers intent was known. The citizens are the militia. The rights of the citizens were guaranteed above the rights of the state or fed (because it is a specifically cited right). The citizens are guaranteed the rights to keep and bear military grade firearms for the preservation of the free state.

If a citizen is milling their own weapons, how is that not in compliance with the 2nd Amendment? Where does the 2nd Amendment and the concept of 'shall not be infringed' conflict with the creation of ones own military grade weapons? Where does the Constitution say that the only weapons that the citizens have the right to keep and bear must be purchased and not created?
 
jaeger19 said:
First. Why would a terrorist worry about a "clean" weapon? Please explain how a "dirty weapon" would prevent him from carrying out a crime.

Lets start with that Jet.
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A "dirty" weapon is traceable.
 
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