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How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming election

Are you taking any steps in light of the election


  • Total voters
    32
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

Do you really expect me to sift through thousands of posts, or follow you around? Can't you give me the thumbnail version?

Sure I can but you did not ask.

I'm not sure how well you can apply first principles but
No law can be passed without public consent.
The only currency of politics is power
Once you accept gun control all you now can discuss is how much.

One is the only way to win
Two explains anything that happens in politics
Three is self explanatory, the longer firearm owners and organisations leave this, the harder it will become to win.
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

Sure I can but you did not ask.

I'm not sure how well you can apply first principles but
No law can be passed without public consent.
The only currency of politics is power
Once you accept gun control all you now can discuss is how much.

One is the only way to win
Two explains anything that happens in politics
Three is self explanatory, the longer firearm owners and organisations leave this, the harder it will become to win.

I see, so basically, you've got nothing but snark and attitude. Got it.

And yes, I did ask. You still have given me zero practical actions the citizenry can take to stem the tide of gun control.

Thanks for nuthin'. :roll:
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

This is one of the only areas in which Hillary is worse than Trump. It's not enough to make me want Trump to win. I'm not a one issue guy. Still, while I haven't yet, I intend to go ahead and get that AR-15 I have been thinking about. We have some time.
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

I see, so basically, you've got nothing but snark and attitude. Got it.

And yes, I did ask. You still have given me zero practical actions the citizenry can take to stem the tide of gun control.

Thanks for nuthin'. :roll:

I will answer what I personally do. and I note that I am both retired and well off so I don't expect all gun owners to be able to do what I have done

I constantly reach out to people who ignorant about guns and offer to take them shooting. I pay for the ammo etc. of the years I have probably done this for several hundred people. When I hear someone has a gun, I do the same thing so they are better educated.

My best "conversion" involved a prominent manager of a leading radio station. Her husband was a country club skeet shooter and asked me (I was ranked top 5 nationally that year) to give his wife a lesson noting she was "pretty liberal"

so we met at my club and we worked on skeet. She asked me what the range to the west of the skeet fields was (behind a small hill) and I said the rifle range. She asked if i had any rifles-I said yeah (I had an AUG and an AR 15 in my trunk). She had mentioned how she was all in favor of the Assault weapon bans that were being discussed in the end of the GHWB administration and the start of Bill Clinton's regime). I didn't tell her those rifles were "assault weapons". Well to make a long story short when she got home she told her husband she wanted an AUG which had gone through roof due to an import ban GHWB imposed. I convinced her an AR 15 was a better choice which her husband got her. He sadly died of some fast spreading cancer a few years later and I never knew if his wife ever figured it out but one of the last times I saw him, he said his wife really liked shooting

People who are introduced to shooting sports properly almost never buy into the absolute lies the anti gun movement spew
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

It was abump to you, to which you had a non answer.

Do you really think you are going to change hearts and minds with a ****ty attitude?

Sorry I may have been a bit hasty but after a thousand attacks one becomes a bit skittish.

No it was an inquiring attitude and I am not here to win hearts and minds I am absolutely crappy at that and make no pretences about it. I gather information, I evaluate, I make conclusions based on as much fact as possible to show validity. I have done his for 20 years and the first question I asked is why do firearm owners and organisations fail. At first I thought it was arrogance, stupidity or both. Whatever it is it is universal. The reality is they know no better and are unwilling to find out. Quite honestly I do not know a way past that I can preform.

I am a critical thinker and have been all my life and intelligent. I ask nobody to like what I present. I ask them to think. For many it is a new experience.

Changing hearts and minds I leave to others who can see through the crap and are bothered to think for themselves and are better equipped than I am.

There is one simple fact, this fight will not be won without public support. Now ask yourself in your whole life have you ever seen a firearm organisation trying to improve the public image and status of firearm ownership, anywhere in the world?

Ownership is not a mistake.

Why not? It's not rocket science?
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

This is one of the only areas in which Hillary is worse than Trump. It's not enough to make me want Trump to win. I'm not a one issue guy. Still, while I haven't yet, I intend to go ahead and get that AR-15 I have been thinking about. We have some time.

No matter what happens in the election-nothing can really be done until late January. However, I will tell you that I have talked to 4-5 of the biggest gun retailers in the SW Ohio area and they all expect massive runs on ARs if Hillary wins-especially if the Dems get the senate. The biggest dealer in the area is stockpiling AR 15 stripped receivers and complete lowers since once you have a lower you can buy a complete top through the mail. AIM SURPLUS in Monroe Ohio (between Dayton and Cincinnati) has sold tons of Northern Ky made ANDERSON lower receivers and usually when they get a shipment, they sell out within an hour

so even if the laws won't change or don't change for months, market demand might be an effective ban to you being able to get what you want for months.

I doubt Hillary wants to deal with the same ass kicking her husband had in 94 if she is elected and thus the reinstatement of a FEDERAL ban (which most likely is going to be held by some court to violate heller) is dubious. what I see is more states run by ARC politicians passing more harassment of gun owners
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

While Trump is endorsed by the NRA, I don't think he's exactly a hard core second amendment advocate. And Hillary of course, probably even more hateful of the NRA and gun owners then Obama or her husband. So if you are a serious gun owner, are you taking steps to guard against the problems which may occur after the election

It is difficult finding some basic ammo anywhere in Albuquerque--especially .22 of any sort. IMO the government has been quietly tamping down on availability of ammo in lieu of the ability to get our guns. I see no sign that Hillary will do it any differently than Obama has done. Trump I think will likely push to remove some restrictions and keep others in place. But I am not especially panicked either way.
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

No matter what happens in the election-nothing can really be done until late January. However, I will tell you that I have talked to 4-5 of the biggest gun retailers in the SW Ohio area and they all expect massive runs on ARs if Hillary wins-especially if the Dems get the senate. The biggest dealer in the area is stockpiling AR 15 stripped receivers and complete lowers since once you have a lower you can buy a complete top through the mail. AIM SURPLUS in Monroe Ohio (between Dayton and Cincinnati) has sold tons of Northern Ky made ANDERSON lower receivers and usually when they get a shipment, they sell out within an hour

so even if the laws won't change or don't change for months, market demand might be an effective ban to you being able to get what you want for months.

I doubt Hillary wants to deal with the same ass kicking her husband had in 94 if she is elected and thus the reinstatement of a FEDERAL ban (which most likely is going to be held by some court to violate heller) is dubious. what I see is more states run by ARC politicians passing more harassment of gun owners

i have been saying the same thing to people myself, you will see ammo being bought up and prices rise like 2008

if your looking to invest and make money, heres the opportunity
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

No matter what happens in the election-nothing can really be done until late January. However, I will tell you that I have talked to 4-5 of the biggest gun retailers in the SW Ohio area and they all expect massive runs on ARs if Hillary wins-especially if the Dems get the senate. The biggest dealer in the area is stockpiling AR 15 stripped receivers and complete lowers since once you have a lower you can buy a complete top through the mail. AIM SURPLUS in Monroe Ohio (between Dayton and Cincinnati) has sold tons of Northern Ky made ANDERSON lower receivers and usually when they get a shipment, they sell out within an hour

so even if the laws won't change or don't change for months, market demand might be an effective ban to you being able to get what you want for months.

I doubt Hillary wants to deal with the same ass kicking her husband had in 94 if she is elected and thus the reinstatement of a FEDERAL ban (which most likely is going to be held by some court to violate heller) is dubious. what I see is more states run by ARC politicians passing more harassment of gun owners

Good point. It wouldn't be the first time procrastinating has bit me in the ass.
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

It is difficult finding some basic ammo anywhere in Albuquerque--especially .22 of any sort. IMO the government has been quietly tamping down on availability of ammo in lieu of the ability to get our guns. I see no sign that Hillary will do it any differently than Obama has done. Trump I think will likely push to remove some restrictions and keep others in place. But I am not especially panicked either way.

I worked for the DOJ through the end of 2013. that was when the ammo shortage was at its worst. there was no government buying up 22s. rather its the employees of big box stores hoarding stuff and then scalping it that causes the problems along with the increased demand. We are getting constant supplies of Federal Auto-match-my favorite dealer was selling 325 rounds at 18 bucks a box and BUDSGUNSHOP has it on line for about the same. I have been buying a couple bricks a week since my wife shoots the 22 RF event in steel matches and goes through 110 or so rounds a week. its employees at places like WALMART that are causing the shortage on top of the demand.

the makers are making as much 22 as they possibly can. I would suggest if you are a serious shooter get some primers and powder for reloading. I always keep about 15,000 primers in stock since I reload about 1000 rounds a month in 9mm and 1000 shot shells a month or more
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

I will answer what I personally do. and I note that I am both retired and well off so I don't expect all gun owners to be able to do what I have done

I constantly reach out to people who ignorant about guns and offer to take them shooting. I pay for the ammo etc. of the years I have probably done this for several hundred people. When I hear someone has a gun, I do the same thing so they are better educated.

My best "conversion" involved a prominent manager of a leading radio station. Her husband was a country club skeet shooter and asked me (I was ranked top 5 nationally that year) to give his wife a lesson noting she was "pretty liberal"

so we met at my club and we worked on skeet. She asked me what the range to the west of the skeet fields was (behind a small hill) and I said the rifle range. She asked if i had any rifles-I said yeah (I had an AUG and an AR 15 in my trunk). She had mentioned how she was all in favor of the Assault weapon bans that were being discussed in the end of the GHWB administration and the start of Bill Clinton's regime). I didn't tell her those rifles were "assault weapons". Well to make a long story short when she got home she told her husband she wanted an AUG which had gone through roof due to an import ban GHWB imposed. I convinced her an AR 15 was a better choice which her husband got her. He sadly died of some fast spreading cancer a few years later and I never knew if his wife ever figured it out but one of the last times I saw him, he said his wife really liked shooting

People who are introduced to shooting sports properly almost never buy into the absolute lies the anti gun movement spew

Influential people should be at the top of the list.

Please understand I very much appreciate your efforts but they do duplicate a very common mistake. That mistake is thinking gun control is about guns. It is not. Therefore promoting, selling, protecting, glorification of guns is not going to work to improve the public image and support of gun ownership.

We note that with increased public support for gun control, gun control laws get passed. We fail to apply what is obvious if we don't want those laws make damn sure there is little support for gun control. At this point we are at a loss and have no idea of how to achieve that. Instead of finding out we go - that will never work or some such rationalisation. Fact is it is the only thing that will work. Best we figure out what we need to do.

The place to start is to figure what is missing from every fight lost to gun control. ie Why do firearm organisations and owners universally fail? Are we making the same mistakes? Why for example did UK fail or Australia?
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

Sorry I may have been a bit hasty but after a thousand attacks one becomes a bit skittish.

No it was an inquiring attitude and I am not here to win hearts and minds I am absolutely crappy at that and make no pretences about it. I gather information, I evaluate, I make conclusions based on as much fact as possible to show validity. I have done his for 20 years and the first question I asked is why do firearm owners and organisations fail. At first I thought it was arrogance, stupidity or both. Whatever it is it is universal. The reality is they know no better and are unwilling to find out. Quite honestly I do not know a way past that I can preform.

I am a critical thinker and have been all my life and intelligent. I ask nobody to like what I present. I ask them to think. For many it is a new experience.

Changing hearts and minds I leave to others who can see through the crap and are bothered to think for themselves and are better equipped than I am.

There is one simple fact, this fight will not be won without public support. Now ask yourself in your whole life have you ever seen a firearm organisation trying to improve the public image and status of firearm ownership, anywhere in the world?

Ownership is not a mistake.

Why not? It's not rocket science?

You have been critical of the premise of this thread, being prepared. You said we should be taking steps to combat gun control, rather than being prepared for it. I am asking you, unambiguously, WHAT ARE THOSE STEPS?
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

Influential people should be at the top of the list.

Please understand I very much appreciate your efforts but they do duplicate a very common mistake. That mistake is thinking gun control is about guns. It is not. Therefore promoting, selling, protecting, glorification of guns is not going to work to improve the public image and support of gun ownership.

We note that with increased public support for gun control, gun control laws get passed. We fail to apply what is obvious if we don't want those laws make damn sure there is little support for gun control. At this point we are at a loss and have no idea of how to achieve that. Instead of finding out we go - that will never work or some such rationalisation. Fact is it is the only thing that will work. Best we figure out what we need to do.

The place to start is to figure what is missing from every fight lost to gun control. ie Why do firearm organisations and owners universally fail? Are we making the same mistakes? Why for example did UK fail or Australia?

uh you don't think the manager of the most popular station in the southern part of the state isn't influential? the masses who buy into gun control as crime control are often ignorant. true, some people will support gun control because they are far left and hate the NRA and the politics of gun owners. we see such types on this board. but the average person who goes along with the ARC nonsense is ignorant. eradicating ignorance among the average voters goes a long way in making gun control less palatable
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

I worked for the DOJ through the end of 2013. that was when the ammo shortage was at its worst. there was no government buying up 22s. rather its the employees of big box stores hoarding stuff and then scalping it that causes the problems along with the increased demand. We are getting constant supplies of Federal Auto-match-my favorite dealer was selling 325 rounds at 18 bucks a box and BUDSGUNSHOP has it on line for about the same. I have been buying a couple bricks a week since my wife shoots the 22 RF event in steel matches and goes through 110 or so rounds a week. its employees at places like WALMART that are causing the shortage on top of the demand.

the makers are making as much 22 as they possibly can. I would suggest if you are a serious shooter get some primers and powder for reloading. I always keep about 15,000 primers in stock since I reload about 1000 rounds a month in 9mm and 1000 shot shells a month or more

We aren't serious shooters at all--we aren't hunters or competition shooters. We just keep a couple of firearms on premises mostly for personal security reasons. We do a bit of target practice now and then though to keep our aim straight and because it is fun, so we do need to replenish the ammo now and then.

But interesting re your assessment of what is causing the shortage. I wasn't sure and suspected it could be excess government regulation on ammo or something that was suppressing the supply--something the President or his people could order without having to go through Congress to do it. But I have been wrong in the past and am fully prepared to be wrong about that. :)
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

Along those same lines of my previous post, I would encourage those who are loading their own shells to really know what you are doing. Many many moons ago my significant other and his buddy, both four sheets in the wind, decided to load some shotgun shells. They didn't have a proper press so used a bathroom scale to put in the wads. The next day they blew up two perfectly good shotguns using those shells.
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

We aren't serious shooters at all--we aren't hunters or competition shooters. We just keep a couple of firearms on premises mostly for personal security reasons. We do a bit of target practice now and then though to keep our aim straight and because it is fun, so we do need to replenish the ammo now and then.

But interesting re your assessment of what is causing the shortage. I wasn't sure and suspected it could be excess government regulation on ammo or something that was suppressing the supply--something the President or his people could order without having to go through Congress to do it. But I have been wrong in the past and am fully prepared to be wrong about that. :)

I read ATF reports and while many people don't trust the ATF-sometimes for good reason, I have enough sources in the industry to note that the big 22 ammo makers-CCI, Federal, Winchester, Remington have not curtailed production and have actually increased it and the government is not buying tons of 22 like it buys tons of 9mm and 556NATO.

Walmart and DICKS and other big box stores sell the most 22 ammo in the USA. That is where most americans get their ammo-while most of us serious shooters get our stuff from gun shops (being a regular and staff archery pro for a shop usually means I am "head of the line" when stuff is scarce and at another store, I give them lots of business so they tend to make sure I get stuff I need). so joe public goes to Walmart for 6 weeks and cannot find any 22. So what does he do-doesn't shoot or more likely pay inflated scalped prices at gun shows or on line. Its a vicious circle-because when suckers pay say 59 bucks for a brick of the fairly pathetic remington thunderbolts (I have some in my storage area with 14 bucks maked on them which was about the going rate a few years ago-and that was full tilt retail) it only encourages the guys making 10 bucks an hour at Wallyworld to buy the next load of 22s up and scalp them on gun broker or at the local gun show

this isn't outrageous and its what we use in matches

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...id/36452/Federal 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Lead/
 
Re: How many gun owners on this board are taking steps to based on the upcoming elect

No matter what happens in the election-nothing can really be done until late January. However, I will tell you that I have talked to 4-5 of the biggest gun retailers in the SW Ohio area and they all expect massive runs on ARs if Hillary wins-especially if the Dems get the senate. The biggest dealer in the area is stockpiling AR 15 stripped receivers and complete lowers since once you have a lower you can buy a complete top through the mail. AIM SURPLUS in Monroe Ohio (between Dayton and Cincinnati) has sold tons of Northern Ky made ANDERSON lower receivers and usually when they get a shipment, they sell out within an hour

so even if the laws won't change or don't change for months, market demand might be an effective ban to you being able to get what you want for months.

I doubt Hillary wants to deal with the same ass kicking her husband had in 94 if she is elected and thus the reinstatement of a FEDERAL ban (which most likely is going to be held by some court to violate heller) is dubious. what I see is more states run by ARC politicians passing more harassment of gun owners

What laws are passed is almost completely unimportant to gun control. Each law passed is a victory, encouragement of supporters and demoralising impact on firearm arm owners. It matters not that none or only a few are impacted. Each one has the potential to be expanded and is now already accepted. Nothing is more a weapon that to demoralise your opposition with acceptance of gun control by people who will cause dissent in the ranks by promoting their acceptance of gun control. The enemy within is the path of success of all propaganda campaigns.
 
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