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My Gun Control Plan [W:1271]

Celebrity said:
So your solution is to talk about guns instead of ending violence?
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gun control has nothing to do with ending violence but rather is about pandering to low wattage voters and is an attempt by the DNC to strip the NRA of its political power. all gun control does is disarm honest citizens and makes things safer for criminals
 
Celebrity said:
So your solution is to talk about guns instead of ending violence?
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And talk is cheap. Lets face it some like the violence and wouldn't have it any other way. As a consequence your society will continue to suffer due to the wishes of this extremist element :(
 
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flogger said:
And talk is cheap. Lets face it some like the violence and wouldn't have it any other way. As a consequence your society will continue to suffer due to the wishes of this extremist element :(
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Seems to me all gun control can be shown to have produced anywhere it was tried is more violence, crime and criminality. Citizens who were lied to and told the police would protect them very rightly angry but to ashamed to admit how stupid they are.

It simply is not possible to take way citizens means of defence and make them safer by being disarmed.
 
StarWarsBob said:
What? "The militia is dependent upon the right to keep and bear arms, the right to keep and bear arms is not dependent upon the militia." Both statements are erroneous.

The 2nd Amendment explicitly states: 1) the need of a well regulated militia necessary for the security of a free state, and 2) the need of citizens to keep and bear arms.
This is because it was those citizens that made up the militias from the various states, and they were required to provide their own weapons.
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You are indeed correct. However using common sense won't ever sway these extremist nutjobs in their perverse interpretations of their 'sacred sentence' :(
 
Every time the so-called "Second Amendment" people say that only people who break the law should be punished, I have to cringe. Really?
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You never answered the question, you want people that don't break the law to be punished? It makes you cringe that we are not punishing law abiding citizens?
 
flogger said:
And talk is cheap. Lets face it some like the violence and wouldn't have it any other way. As a consequence your society will continue to suffer due to the wishes of this extremist element :(
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The problem lies not with the people who honestly believe in upholding the law. The problem is the criminally insane people to which law abiding people are insufferably blind. When we make decisions, especially regarding the law, we facilitate the actions of other people. I'm sure there is someone out there right now with a perverted obsession with firearms who is just having a blast hearing about shootings, not because they enjoy suffering, but because they like guns. I cannot agree with that sentiment.
 
Crimefree said:
Seems to me all gun control can be shown to have produced anywhere it was tried is more violence, crime and criminality. Citizens who were lied to and told the police would protect them very rightly angry but to ashamed to admit how stupid they are.

It simply is not possible to take way citizens means of defence and make them safer by being disarmed.
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I am curious to see the daya that corelates to this claim. Is there less violent crimes in areas where legal guns are more prevalent and more crime where they are very restricted?

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trouble13 said:
I am curious to see the daya that corelates to this claim. Is there less violent crimes in areas where legal guns are more prevalent and more crime where they are very restricted?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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Yes, it has been posted many time before.
 
flogger said:
You are indeed correct. However using common sense won't ever sway these extremist nutjobs in their perverse interpretations of their 'sacred sentence' :(
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Any more than the ideologically blind deluded oppressive aberrants of society that want to give criminals Christmas every single day. It is very difficult to think the criminals friends could possibly have anything reasonable to say when their claims are proven insanity.
 
trouble13 said:
I am curious to see the daya that corelates to this claim. Is there less violent crimes in areas where legal guns are more prevalent and more crime where they are very restricted?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
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Crime does not correlate with levels of firearm ownership. It is not possible that it does as no causal relationship exists.

Any correlations are simply random.

What is important is that citizens with guns pose a deterrent to crime and once removed invariably crime increases because the deterrent effect is removed. It relies more on publicity than anything else. Both England and Australia despite Floggers refuted false claims exhibit this unsurprising result.
 
Celebrity said:
Nope, I did not say that. I don't know where you got the idea that I said anything like that. By the way, regulations that do not discriminate against someone because of their identity are not "punishing" people. Until you find the next Excalibur, I doubt you will find a reason to punish someone for owning a weapon.
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How about forcing them to give it up? Punishment or not?
 
flogger said:
And talk is cheap. Lets face it some like the violence and wouldn't have it any other way. As a consequence your society will continue to suffer due to the wishes of this extremist element :(
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Forcing people to be criminal fodder and punishing them should they dare to defend themselves seems to me to be the result of some truly sick and oppressive monsters of society we could well be better off with out.
 
Crimefree said:
How about forcing them to give it up? Punishment or not?
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Legally, that's not punishment. Is it punishment to economically oppress any one citizen to the point where they are so poor that they cannot afford a single firearm? I assume that many believe they are too poor to afford instruction, much like young people cannot afford to go to college without taking out a loan.

When one has five toys and mommy takes one of them away, is that a punishment, or do we just want what we can't have?
 
Crimefree said:
Forcing people to be criminal fodder and punishing them should they dare to defend themselves seems to me to be the result of some truly sick and oppressive monsters of society we could well be better off with out.
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Wait, are you talking about aggravated assault, or self defense? I don't think they're the same thing, and the two are sometimes confused.
 
Celebrity said:
Legally, that's not punishment. Is it punishment to economically oppress any one citizen to the point where they are so poor that they cannot afford a single firearm? I assume that many believe they are too poor to afford instruction, much like young people cannot afford to go to college without taking out a loan.

When one has five toys and mommy takes one of them away, is that a punishment, or do we just want what we can't have?
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nah I would call that theft that would justify the owner using whatever means necessary to prevent the taking
 
TurtleDude said:
nah I would call that theft that would justify the owner using whatever means necessary to prevent the taking
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Even if you can't legally own that item?

What is ownership?
 
Celebrity said:
The problem lies not with the people who honestly believe in upholding the law. The problem is the criminally insane people to which law abiding people are insufferably blind.
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Oh my goodness..... we desperately need to lock up some people and the deluded lying elitists would be a good place to start. This bunch of cretins have been responsible for some of the worst atrocities man has ever witnessed driven by their own moral conscious and fear of others. Last seen they were burning witches at the stake. It seems they have found something new to fear and hate.

When we make decisions, especially regarding the law, we facilitate the actions of other people.
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I doubt one single law has ever been made on that basis.

I'm sure there is someone out there right now with a perverted obsession with firearms who is just having a blast hearing about shootings, not because they enjoy suffering, but because they like guns. I cannot agree with that sentiment.
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Your obsession with guns and gun owners should be a warning to every firearm owner that this is the kind of insanity that has seen more people killed in the last 100 years than all the wars in the same period. Unfortunately they like the 262 million who have already been killed are not capable of learning from history or they simply do not want to.
 
Crimefree said:
Oh my goodness..... we desperately need to lock up some people and the deluded lying elitists would be a good place to start. This bunch of cretins have been responsible for some of the worst atrocities man has ever witnessed driven by their own moral conscious and fear of others. Last seen they were burning witches at the stake. It seems they have found something new to fear and hate.
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Burning witches is based on the irrational, irrelevant fear of black magic. Gun control is based on the relevant, rational fear of improper use of firearms. Take police officers for example. Many police officers carry a firearm, and a large number of these trained individuals have been reportedly using guns to shoot innocent people. What can be done? Well, we should definitely screen for idiots trying to join law enforcement, but will that stop improper use of a deadly weapon? No, it will reduce improper use of a deadly weapon. And that's the level of scrutiny that is not being applied to professionals with firearms, let alone amateurs.
 
Celebrity said:
Legally, that's not punishment. Is it punishment to economically oppress any one citizen to the point where they are so poor that they cannot afford a single firearm? I assume that many believe they are too poor to afford instruction, much like young people cannot afford to go to college without taking out a loan.

When one has five toys and mommy takes one of them away, is that a punishment, or do we just want what we can't have?
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Legally it is punishment when you have no sound valid reason for doing so. Nobody may be deprived of anything without good reason.

We have had enough of the fear and hate filled to last an eternity, genocides, slavery, oppression of woman, oppression of blacks and other ethnicities - just when are these people going to give up the oppression and killing? Does their hate and blood lust know no quenching?
 
Crimefree said:
Legally it is punishment when you have no sound valid reason for doing so. Nobody may be deprived of anything without good reason.
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No that is a crime, not a punishment. Gun control is a valid reason for doing so, which is why there is only legal reason for controlling gun ownership to the extent that the law specifies.

Crimefree said:
We have had enough of the fear and hate filled to last an eternity, genocides, slavery, oppression of woman, oppression of blacks and other ethnicities - just when are these people going to give up the oppression and killing? Does their hate and blood lust know no quenching?
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What do you mean by that?
 
Celebrity said:
Burning witches is based on the irrational, irrelevant fear of black magic.
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My point exactly. Do note the irrational.

Gun control is based on the relevant, rational fear of improper use of firearms.
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No it is not. The criminal use of firearms like all other substances and objects is well defined policed and prosecuted. Do note your own words and I put in the correct word "criminal" use. Which improper uses is not covered by law? Which improper use needs to be controlled?

Take police officers for example. Many police officers carry a firearm, and a large number of these trained individuals have been reportedly using guns to shoot innocent people. What can be done? Well, we should definitely screen for idiots trying to join law enforcement, but will that stop improper use of a deadly weapon? No, it will reduce improper use of a deadly weapon. And that's the level of scrutiny that is not being applied to professionals with firearms, let alone amateurs.
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Your language is that of fear.

Your fear of people "things" is completely irrational. There is no way on earth currently of predicting what people will do in the future. We let repeat criminals out of jail because they have served their sentence even though a good portion will return having committed more crimes. You have no problem with them, a far higher risk group. Your fears and demands are irrational. Let's say people with irrational fears are idiots and you will be far more correct.
 
Celebrity said:
No that is a crime, not a punishment. Gun control is a valid reason for doing so, which is why there is only legal reason for controlling gun ownership to the extent that the law specifies.
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Bzzt wrong.

You have not proven gun control is a valid reason. Why did you forget to do so?

What do you mean by that?
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I really thought that was clear. Who do you think persecuted those I listed? Which words did you not understand?
 
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