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Can a landlord forbid gun ownership in his apartment complex?

WorldWatcher said:
You wouldn't have any problem with me, when I retire and turn the current family home into a rental income property there won't be a firearm restriction in the lease.


And again, you are free to voluntarily rent from a landlord with no such restriction, your use of your childrens safety is the obvious employment of the Appeal to Emotion Fallacy.
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I'm also free to carry against a house rule telling me not to. That's the choice I've made before, that's the choice I would make again.
 
Jerry said:
Involving the government is my way of keeping it civil.

If we don't want to involve the government to keep a landlord from trying to enforce an unreasonable policy....that means using other-than-legal means of persuasion...which begins with advising the landlord to get full coverage on their car....and not letting their pet out at night....

If you don't want to involve the government, we don't have to. We can take that other road.
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To the landlord, such a policy is not "unreasonable". It's the use of an emotionally charged word.

Why would you voluntarily sign a lease and then plan on committing a crime for voluntarily agreeing to the terms in the first place and not just choosing a different place to rent?



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Jerry said:
I'm also free to carry against a house rule telling me not to. That's the choice I've made before, that's the choice I would make again.
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That's fine. You are responsible for your actions.

Me? I'd not voluntarily sign such a lease to begin with.



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WorldWatcher said:
Why would you voluntarily sign a lease and then plan on committing a crime for voluntarily agreeing to the terms in the first place and not just choosing a different place to rent?
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No no, I would sign the lease and then try to get away with ignoring the house rule. Depending on the rental, the landlord likely is not the owner, just a manager, and may not even care about the rule at all (especially if the reason I was discovered is because I pulled my gun on a gang-banger fresh from a murder trying to brake into my infant son's room). There's a lot of things which have to be felt out.

Then I can try and talk my way out of it. I can say I was at the range and forgot. My bad. Or I can say I got rid of it since I was made.

Then the landlord may issue a warning. I've never heard of a landlord who evicts for a first offence of a house rule. If I broke the rule against changing my oil in the driveway I highly doubt the landlord would try to evict me. More likely they would try to pin a fee on me to clean the driveway. The landlord still needs me paying rent. Even homeowner's associations aren't that ban.

The situation really has to be pushed to get to the point where it get's serious.
 
Jerry said:
No no, I would sign the lease and then try to get away with ignoring the house rule. Depending on the rental, the landlord likely is not the owner, just a manager, and may not even care about the rule at all. There's a lot of things which have to be felt out.

Then I can try and talk my way out of it. I can say I was at the range and forgot. My bad. Or I can say I got rid of it since I was made.

Then the landlord may issue a warning. I've never heard of a landlord who evicts for a first offence of a house rule. If I broke the rule against changing my oil in the driveway I highly doubt the landlord would try to evict me. More likely they would try to pin a fee on me to clean the driveway. The landlord still needs me paying rent. Even homeowner's associations aren't that ban.

The situation really has to be pushed to get to the point where it get's serious.
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So you would sign a voluntary lease containing a provision you don't like (and which is perfectly valid for a given jurisdiction) specifically so you can violate it and play games?


I'm an honorable man and my word means something, I don't play games with it.


I guess that is were we differ.



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Jerry said:
Well that's just the thing, I'm responsible for my safety, too.
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And you are free to buy your own property or rent from a landlord without such a restriction (if such a restriction is valid in your state).


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WorldWatcher said:
So you would sign a voluntary lease containing a provision you don't like (and which is perfectly valid for a given jurisdiction) specifically so you can violate it and play games?
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I didn't think that gang-banger was very silly at all.

He didn't think I was very silly either.

WorldWatcher said:
I'm an honorable man and my word means something, I don't play games with it.
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If we were relying on eachother's word then we wouldn't be signing leases in the first place.
 
WorldWatcher said:
And you are free to buy your own property...
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No I'm not.

What the hell makes you think I can buy real-estate right now? You don't even know me to make that judgment. Until very recently I've been under the federal poverty line (which explains living in neighborhoods where gangbangers beat neighbors to death). Now with a better job I need to pay off student loans, the car is about to die, and I still ow over 2K to the divorce lawyer.

I have no money to buy property. I have to rent, and my finances limit my options.
 
Jerry said:
No I'm not.

What the hell makes you think I can buy real-estate right now? You don't even know me to make that judgment. Until very recently I've been under the federal poverty line (which explains living in neighborhoods where gangbangers beat neighbors to death). Now with a better job I need to pay off student loans, the car is about to die, and I still ow over 2K to the divorce lawyer.

I have no money to buy property. I have to rent, and my finances limit my options.
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Funny, you snipped the rest of the statement which was...


WorldWatcher said:
And you are free to buy your own property or rent from a landlord without such a restriction (if such a restriction is valid in your state).
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WorldWatcher said:
Funny, you snipped the rest of the statement which was...
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Because I've already responded to that dozens of times on this thread.

I'm not going to look elsewhere just because of a no-gun house rule. Of the factors considered in the decision of where to live, a no-gun policy is not one of them because it's practically unenforceable.

If the rental is the right place for the right price I'm not turning it down over an unenforceable rule.

The rule may as well be "you can't stand when you pee". I'm ignoring that one also. It's completely unenforceable.
 
Jerry said:
Because I've already responded to that dozens of times on this thread.

I'm not going to look elsewhere just because of a no-gun house rule. Of the factors considered in the decision of where to live, a no-gun policy is not one of them because it's practically unenforceable.

If the rental is the right place for the right price I'm not turning it down over an unenforceable rule.

The rule may as well be "you can't stand when you pee". I'm ignoring that one also. It's completely unenforceable.
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And lying is a choice you make if you enter into the agreement with no intent of honoring your word.



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WorldWatcher said:
And lying is a choice you make if you enter into the agreement with no intent of honoring your word.
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I feel that I'm pressed into a survival situation. I don't like it, it's ugly, I'd truly rather not have to.

But I will if I need to. Once you can justify killing another human being to survive, lying is nothing. You don't want to ever have to do either one, but you're ready to do it if you have to and hopefully you'll be good at it when it counts.
 
Jerry said:
I feel that I'm pressed into a survival situation. I don't like it, it's ugly, I'd truly rather not have to.

But I will if I need to. Once you can justify killing another human being to survive, lying is nothing. You don't want to ever have to do either one, but you're ready to do it if you have to and hopefully you'll be good at it when it counts.
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Survival situation because you might not be able to voluntarily rent someone else's property under conditions they set and if you decide not to you'd never have to set foot on that property?

Hyperbole much?



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WorldWatcher said:
Survival situation because you might not be able to voluntarily rent someone else's property under conditions they set and if you decide not to you'd never have to set foot on that property?
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Nope.
 
Texmex said:
Does the lease agreement give you the right to go through the boxes in my closet, or the chest-of-drawers in my bedroom? If not, there is no way you can enforce me not having firearms on my rental property.

Also, it isn't difficult to take my guns with me when I leave your property and bring them back when I return.
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Enforcement is a separate issue entirely. And I agree that enforcement of a handgun ban would be difficult, a long gun would be much easier to enforce, but that's really not the point. The point is it would be a legal provision of a lease agreement absent a state barring it and should you be caught violating it the landlord would justification to evict you or exercise any other remedy available under the terms of the agreement or local law.
 
MaggieD said:
Just to play Devil's Advocate: If the government sides with the landlord in enforcing the terms of a contract that deny one's 2nd Amendment rights, is it not then the government that is taking away your Second Amendment rights? (Which, of course, would be unconstitutional...)
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No. The government would be enforcing the terms of a contract. That is a legitimate government function.
 
Gaius46 said:
Enforcement is a separate issue entirely. And I agree that enforcement of a handgun ban would be difficult, a long gun would be much easier to enforce, but that's really not the point. The point is it would be a legal provision of a lease agreement absent a state barring it and should you be caught violating it the landlord would justification to evict you or exercise any other remedy available under the terms of the agreement or local law.
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And then his dog would go missing. Very sad.
 
Jerry said:
And then his dog would go missing. Very sad.
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Or you could just rent from someone else to start. Just saying. You don't have to choose to go all Early Cuyler.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Or you could just rent from someone else to start. Just saying. You don't have to choose to go all Early Cuyler.
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The landlord can always choose not to have a no-gun policy. We all get to make choices.
 
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