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Missing persons alert!

marke said:
Not taxing or taxing too little will not keep America alive. Taxing too much will kill America. Foolish spending forces tax rates up and endangers America and Americans. There is no excuse for refusing to to apply serious reform measures to cut spending in efforts to save America from fiscal collapse.
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America’s tax rate is no where near a rate that discourages work or investment. There is a great deal of study on this that says the top marginal tax rate can be 70-80% before it negatively affects work or investment behavior.

In fact, in the years America was the most prosperous we had top marginal rates more than twice what they are now.
 
MTAtech said:
If interest rates rise, new debt will be at the higher rate but old debt remains. It’s been true for many decades that the U.S. government has no trouble finding lenders.
While on that, remember that most debt is owned by Americans. The interest that is paid is a cost to the government but is income to those Americans.
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The idea that America only owes itself the money it has borrowed because it has only borrowed money from itself is idiotic. Anyone who thinks America will never be in debt difficulties because the debt does not really have to be repaid is a fool and should not be involved in making fiscal decisions for America.
 
marke said:
I have always blamed Congress for not controlling spending and have blamed democrats for much of the pork spending on democrat causes and organizations. But you are right, I should have blamed Americans in general for electing bad people who do bad things to America and Americans.
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You came close to blaming the current Republican president, but you just couldn't go that extra step..You had to throw in a partisan shot that most of the debt is the Dems fault...Which isn't true. It was the Republicans in the WH and Congress who gave billion $ Corps and millionaires and billionaires the recent tax cut that has only made the deficit and debt worse.

The last 2 Republican presidents got tax cuts, Bush while we were at war, and Trump when the economy was going great. Both times is when you do NOT want to cut taxes. Unbelievably stupid. I don't know if that's even been done before.

Oh well..
 
marke said:
The idea that America only owes itself the money it has borrowed because it has only borrowed money from itself is idiotic. Anyone who thinks America will never be in debt difficulties because the debt does not really have to be repaid is a fool and should not be involved in making fiscal decisions for America.
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Well, America’s history says you’re wrong. After World War II, the debt was 120% of GDP. How did we payoff that debt? Answer: we didn’t. We just kept annual deficits below GDP growth and the WWII debt, of about $200 billion, became irrelevant.
 
MTAtech said:
America’s tax rate is no where near a rate that discourages work or investment. There is a great deal of study on this that says the top marginal tax rate can be 70-80% before it negatively affects work or investment behavior.

In fact, in the years America was the most prosperous we had top marginal rates more than twice what they are now.
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JFK cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Reagan cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Clinton cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Trump cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Carter raised taxes and the economy struggled.
Bush I raised taxes and the economy depressed.
Obama raised taxes and the economy struggled.

I don't know who is telling you something different but you really should question those contrary sources in order to gain a better understanding of the facts.
 
marke said:
JFK cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Reagan cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Clinton cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Trump cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Carter raised taxes and the economy struggled.
Bush I raised taxes and the economy depressed.
Obama raised taxes and the economy struggled.

I don't know who is telling you something different but you really should question those contrary sources in order to gain a better understanding of the facts.
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The democrats designed the full implementation of Obamacare to be delayed until after the 2016 election. Why? Because they knew tens of millions of Americans were going to become angry when they found out how much their 'Obamacare' taxes were going to be under the mandate.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
You came close to blaming the current Republican president, but you just couldn't go that extra step..You had to throw in a partisan shot that most of the debt is the Dems fault...Which isn't true. It was the Republicans in the WH and Congress who gave billion $ Corps and millionaires and billionaires the recent tax cut that has only made the deficit and debt worse.

The last 2 Republican presidents got tax cuts, Bush while we were at war, and Trump when the economy was going great. Both times is when you do NOT want to cut taxes. Unbelievably stupid. I don't know if that's even been done before.

Oh well..
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Democrats thinking raising taxes on the rich who are unprotected in their investment schemes is something that should be done to help pay for increasing government expenses. But that ios stupid and will never work to maintain a healthy economy. Democrats think cutting excessive taxes on the rich is the same thing as giving the rich subsidies, which is ridiculous. What the democrats seem too stupid to understand is that the debt problem is the result of too much spending, wasteful spending, fraud, abuse, and massive increases in government regulation and departments to manage those increasing numbers of regulators and their increasing regulatory activities.

America needs to address wasteful and unnecessary spending first, not making stupid small talk about taxing or cutting taxes on the rich which will do next to nothing to help us get out of debt.
 
marke said:
Democrats thinking raising taxes on the rich who are unprotected in their investment schemes is something that should be done to help pay for increasing government expenses. But that ios stupid and will never work to maintain a healthy economy. Democrats think cutting excessive taxes on the rich is the same thing as giving the rich subsidies, which is ridiculous. What the democrats seem too stupid to understand is that the debt problem is the result of too much spending, wasteful spending, fraud, abuse, and massive increases in government regulation and departments to manage those increasing numbers of regulators and their increasing regulatory activities.

America needs to address wasteful and unnecessary spending first, not making stupid small talk about taxing or cutting taxes on the rich which will do next to nothing to help us get out of debt.
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Do democrats really want to tax the rich? Then let them tax savings accounts, tax foundations, tax trusts, remove locks to prevent IRS examining overseas accounts, and so forth. That will not likely happen, however, because so many politicians, especially democrats, have so much wealth hidden in such tax shelters from the IRS.
 
MTAtech said:
Well, America’s history says you’re wrong. After World War II, the debt was 120% of GDP. How did we payoff that debt? Answer: we didn’t. We just kept annual deficits below GDP growth and the WWII debt, of about $200 billion, became irrelevant.
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Do you realize how silly it is to say we cannot ever run into trouble from our indebtedness because we have never run into trouble before? That is like a private citizen debtor telling his banker, 'I need to borrow another million dollars but don't worry about me paying it back because I have always made interest payments on my debts in the past.' To which the banker responds, 'Paying interest on a $3 thousand dollar loan is not sufficient collateral for the bank to have confidence you can pay back a $1 million loan with no difficulty.
 
marke said:
JFK cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Reagan cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Clinton cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Trump cut taxes and the economy flourished.
Carter raised taxes and the economy struggled.
Bush I raised taxes and the economy depressed.
Obama raised taxes and the economy struggled.

I don't know who is telling you something different but you really should question those contrary sources in order to gain a better understanding of the facts.
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The top tax rate under JFK was 91%. He cut it to 70% and at 70%, the economy flourished.
Reagan cut tax and the economy had a recession for two years until the Fed, in 1983, cut interest rates.
Clinton raised taxes, not cut them. In fact, all the GOP leaders at the time said it would result in a recession. It didn’t.
Carter kept the same top rates as previous existed. The economy struggled because of high gas prices and the Fed raising interest rates to double digits.
Obama raised taxes and the economy came out of the deepest recession since the Great Depression.
Before the economy fell apart, Trump’s economy was identical to Obama’s. Trump’s tax cuts had no positive affect on the economy.
 
Torus34 said:
Where are all the very serious people who were warning us about the increasing federal debt? I've not heard from them in the last couple of years.

Any information as to their present whereabouts would be appreciated.

Thank you.
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Destination unknown.
 
National-debt-equal-to-national-economy.jpg
 
Torus34 said:
Where are all the very serious people who were warning us about the increasing federal debt? I've not heard from them in the last couple of years.

Any information as to their present whereabouts would be appreciated.

Thank you.
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I dont mind explaining it to you because I have to explain everything to liberals anyway. Deficit hawks lost the argument nearly a decade ago, thats why you dont hear from them. Bush doubled the debt and Obama came along and doubled it again. And you know what happened? Nothing. Those of us who believed that massive debt would harm us, turned out to be wrong. So if Trump comes along and doubles the debt again, who cares? In short, you guys won the argument, deficits dont matter. Spend away.
 
Fletch said:
I dont mind explaining it to you because I have to explain everything to liberals anyway. Deficit hawks lost the argument nearly a decade ago, thats why you dont hear from them. Bush doubled the debt and Obama came along and doubled it again. And you know what happened? Nothing. Those of us who believed that massive debt would harm us, turned out to be wrong. So if Trump comes along and doubles the debt again, who cares? In short, you guys won the argument, deficits dont matter. Spend away.
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Hi!

There's an old saying which goes, 'Don't try to teach your grandmother how to suck eggs.' 'Nuf said.

There can be a point at which the national debt becomes a problem. That obtains when the cost of servicing the debt itself becomes a problem. At the present time, with the Fed holding interest rates close to zero, we'll not see that occurring. Should, at some later time, interest rates rise significantly [as in an attempt to combat 'stag-flation',] we [you and me] may wish to return to this topic.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

Sent from my old PC, using a cheap keyboard.
 
marke said:
What happens when a debtor does not pay down on the principle while the principle keeps rising, at alarming rates? Both the debtor and the creditor get into big trouble. That is as certain as gravity.
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Again, I don't want to sound like one of the whacko lefties who post on this forum but that's just not true when it comes to the federal government and having a fiat currency. First, as I said before, we DO pay down our debt - all the time. For every dollar we pay down, we borrow another $1.25. We shouldn't let that get out of hand. We should always have our debt to gdp ration under 100% and it currently isn't. But, comparing you and I to the federal government is like comparing apples to car tires. They are whole different ballgames. And, our debt has gone up to somewhere around 25 trillion dollars and we still aren't in trouble. That's just the way it is.
 
MTAtech said:
The top tax rate under JFK was 91%. He cut it to 70% and at 70%, the economy flourished.
Reagan cut tax and the economy had a recession for two years until the Fed, in 1983, cut interest rates.
Clinton raised taxes, not cut them. In fact, all the GOP leaders at the time said it would result in a recession. It didn’t.
Carter kept the same top rates as previous existed. The economy struggled because of high gas prices and the Fed raising interest rates to double digits.
Obama raised taxes and the economy came out of the deepest recession since the Great Depression.
Before the economy fell apart, Trump’s economy was identical to Obama’s. Trump’s tax cuts had no positive affect on the economy.
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A truly colored democrat assessment of what actually happened.
 
Moderate Right said:
Again, I don't want to sound like one of the whacko lefties who post on this forum but that's just not true when it comes to the federal government and having a fiat currency. First, as I said before, we DO pay down our debt - all the time. For every dollar we pay down, we borrow another $1.25. We shouldn't let that get out of hand. We should always have our debt to gdp ration under 100% and it currently isn't. But, comparing you and I to the federal government is like comparing apples to car tires. They are whole different ballgames. And, our debt has gone up to somewhere around 25 trillion dollars and we still aren't in trouble. That's just the way it is.
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Let me try again. The debt has never gone down in 50 years. Do you understand what I mean when I say we have never paid to bring our debt down in 50 years?
 
Torus34 said:
Missing persons alert!
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Sadly, I need to report they found him at Mt. Rushmore last night.

He is only missing when he needs to govern not when it's tee time or campaign time.
 
OrphanSlug said:
That is the most ignorant post you have made so far, congrats.
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Well, the deficit spending served to:

SLOW the growth rate of the debt after the 2016 election compared to either W or the Big 0
served to create more jobs
employed more Americans than at any point in our history
Who were earning higher wages than at any point in our history
and developing greater wealth than at any point in our history.

The best results for all demographics ever. EVER! AND the lowest wage earners were improving at a greater rate than the highest earners.

The economic reasoning produced EXACTLY what was promised. While it DID benefit the folks you hate, it also benefitted the entire American population.

It benefitted ALL AMERICANS. Exactly what the President said would happen.

Promises made. Promises kept.

Since you said you hated the opposite of what was produced after the 2016 election, i naturally assumed you would like the results produced after the 2016 election.
 
MTAtech said:
Didn't discuss it with me.

Debt created to pay people to stay sheltered is worth the cost. The interest the U.S. pays on this debt is near zero.

What I object to is increasing the deficit so to give the wealthy and corporations tax-cuts, because we really don't have to pay off the debt -- just make annual deficits below that of GDP growth, which can't happen if we're raising the deficit because of tax-cuts.
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You're using very broad strokes.

Are there particular tax policies motivating particular business decisions made by those who will pay the increased or decreased taxes with which you take issue?
 
Moderate Right said:
Most people realize that when you have a crisis you have to take on a lot of debt. In fact, that is EXACTLY why we need to be serious about the debt when there isn't a crisis going on. When this crisis is over politicians need to grow some balls about containing at least the yearly deficit.
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HOLY SF BALLS!!! You and every conservative screamed about the massive trillion dollar deficits President Obama inherited. Not only did you blame him for them, you screamed that it was only a spending problem and we needed to reduce the deficit. Trump balloons the deficit first chance he gets and you people didnt say one word. If you were actually " serious about the debt when there isn't a crisis going on" you would stop voting republican.
 
Vern said:
HOLY SF BALLS!!! You and every conservative screamed about the massive trillion dollar deficits President Obama inherited. Not only did you blame him for them, you screamed that it was only a spending problem and we needed to reduce the deficit. Trump balloons the deficit first chance he gets and you people didnt say one word. If you were actually " serious about the debt when there isn't a crisis going on" you would stop voting republican.
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Yep, we notice right in this thread.. 1 excuse after another, after another on why the debt and deficit no longer matter.

8 years when Obama was president AND we were digging out of a recession they didn't want any reasons or excuses, then they believed the debt and deficit was going to destroy the country. Now? neither no longer matter.
 
code1211 said:
The best results for all demographics ever. EVER! AND the lowest wage earners were improving at a greater rate than the highest earners.

The economic reasoning produced EXACTLY what was promised. While it DID benefit the folks you hate, it also benefitted the entire American population.
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You can't show this to be true. It's just an empty claim that's based around the pre-pandemic employment rate.

It benefitted ALL AMERICANS. Exactly what the President said would happen.

Promises made. Promises kept.
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Trump made no promises regarding deficit growth benefiting ALL AMERICANS!. He did claim rGDP would growth 3%, 4%, 5%, and maybe even 6%. He did claim that the deficit would create so much economic activity, that it would recapture the amount of revenue lost through tax cuts. He did claim he would balance the budget and eliminate the debt. Not to mention trade deals with China, Mexico-financed southern border walls, etc...

The guy made a lot of promises to his largely uneducated base... and they took him at his word!
 
VanceMack said:
I can only speak for myself, and I have said the same thing every time the debt has come up. I believe that is one of Trumps biggest failings. As for the two parties...they both spend like drunken sailors. There isnt a dimes difference between the two. .
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my goodness, another false "both sides" post to justify his continued support for a party that screams about deficits then balloons it first chance they get. the first problem with it (besides being false) is its a revised narrative. You used to believe that republicans really really really wanted to lower the deficit or even balance the budget. Now that you can no longer deny republicans are flaming lying hypocrites concering deficits we get the "wah wah both sides wah wah drunken sailors" post. Vance, if the debt upsets you so much then you should stop voting for republicans. Not just because democrats do a much better job with deficits but republicans only seem to care about deficits when there is a democrat president.
 
gdgyva said:
There is no such thing as a fiscal conservative left in DC anymore
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oh gd, there never a fiscal conservative in DC. Sure a lot them pretended to care when President Obama was dealing with the Great Bush Recession. Yep, deficits was the most important thing in the world to them then. simply put, they played you guys for suckers. Oh how conservatives clapped like trained seals every time they tried to pass their silly balance amendments. And the first thing they did when they got into power was balloon the deficit with tax cuts to rich people.

And both sides will point at each other and say "they are to blame"
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Yea, both sides will do that. But when your side does it, its out of ignorance or dishonesty. Reagan tripled the debt. Bush doubled it. I shudder to think about what trump will do.
 
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