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Taxes or Debt?

SkyChief said:
The United States of America before 1913.

(when progressives gave Congress the " power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.")
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This is factually incorrect.

We borrowed money from the Netherlands and France in 1775 to pay for the Revolution to pay for the war and we continued to borrow throughout the war. In 1781, the Department of Finance was created. By 1783, out debt was reported at around $43 million (a lot back then). Congress then was allowed to place taxes and to collect...but the taxes were not enough.

In 1789, the Treasury became into being with Hamilton as its head. National debt was at $77 million. Hamilton believed in maintaining a little bit of debt, so did not allow taxes to pay off the debt. However, when he and Washington convinced Congress to allow the American government to take on the wartime debt of all of the states from the Revolution...he was forced to create taxes to help pay for the new glut of debt now being incurred.

That was a tax on whiskey production where large stills (like Washington's) only had to pay for a small annual taxes and smaller stills had to pay by the bottle. The secondary purpose of this tax was to slow down the consumption of whiskey which Hamilton thought was in excess (read: nanny state). This started the Whiskey Rebellion. Obviously, the rebellion didn't amount to much.

But to pay off the glut debt, Hamilton discovered he needed to do more and created bonds to pay it off with. Bonds, as we all know, are loans that are (in this case) paid for by citizens to the government with the idea that it would be repaid someday. And thus started the concept of creating bonds to pay for bonds to create more bonds to pay those bonds in return for making more bonds.......
 
Peter said:
I'm simply asking where you got the $93T figure from.
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I'm simply asking how much you want to spend fighting a losing battle against mother nature. You tell me. With wars, we've at least got a good chance of winning.
 
Where are you getting this $93T figure from?
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The 93 trillion figure is simply the highest number we have heard from politicians.

The number is not absolute. It will continue to add up just like the amount we spend on other "wars". The defining total is whenever the dollar finally collapses from ALL spending legal AND illegal.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I mean I wouldn’t have a problem with paying higher taxes myself if I can be assured that money would only be used to pay down debt.

I would want to see that the government though seriously wants to pay debt.

That means I want to see more drilling rigs in California and Florida like in Norway, massive social and military spending cuts, massive layoffs and public workers, and then I will willingly pay for more taxes to pay the debt
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No, higher taxes win either way.

Even if they spend the money on social programs the effect on the economy and deficit will be positive.

We can't start paying debt until the budget is balanced.

We can't cut social programs, that's only a nickle in the bucket.

If you want to cut spending target defense and health care for 50%.

The way to do this is to install a federal vegan program; all receiving federal funds must comply; schools, retirement homes, penal institutions, government functions and armed forces.
 
Moderate Right said:
That's the trouble with you lefties. You think that is the only choice - taxes or debt. How about spending less money?
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The problem with spending less money, is that means layoffs and less production and more failure and uncertainty for that industry.

I don't know what to do really at this point, go over the cliff? Bankruptcy?

But continuing to depend on growth to balance our debt as we're marching into the first Tribulation (2020-2026) or not will not so therefor Biden who has the most going for him astrologically which matters most. Sanders had the same chance as Biden and only Tulsi would have had a chance.

And I'm not a liberal lefty, unless you're chagrined by it, or unless J.C. was, or to balance what Ike did to the gays.

I believe in reason, which you do not have because you are all animals.

If you can reason me Trump you can have him, but you can't.

You have to bend reality all the over to your own consensus view and say, "All good, no bad." But I am more powerful than you, so I will bend reality over to my point of view for this election.

But I must reason you; Democrat House and Senate.
 
Moderate Right said:
LOL. So you deny the left want to spend more money than wars to fight global warming?
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Ok ill bite. what is this "war on global warming" with $93 trillion amount that was fought by the dems. This should be good. Eagerly wait your response.
 
Exquisitor said:
Taxes or Debt?

Most people think they are going to Heaven, but I tell you, Heaven is a cow's scrotum.

Unlike a human scrotum that eats the cow.

But if you're in for better things, isn't it in your interests to pay higher taxes rather than run up debt?

Even spending the tax hike is better for the economy, and paying the debt than what we were trying to do before covid reminded us about the benefit of fiscal responsibility.
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Except that tax hikes don't necessarily bring in more revenue.
 
Exquisitor said:
Taxes or Debt?

Most people think they are going to Heaven, but I tell you, Heaven is a cow's scrotum.

Unlike a human scrotum that eats the cow.

But if you're in for better things, isn't it in your interests to pay higher taxes rather than run up debt?

Even spending the tax hike is better for the economy, and paying the debt than what we were trying to do before covid reminded us about the benefit of fiscal responsibility.
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Tax hikes aren't spent to pay down the debt, silly. They're just spent, and more is borrowed and spent along with it.

My question is; why have taxes at all if the government can print as much money as it wants?
 
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