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How big will this year's deficit be?

Samwise said:
Yes there is evidence. It erodes their wealth. Makes them worse off.
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Your opinion isn't an argument... This is why you continue to fail.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It started out as an estimate of one trillion. Add to that the 2.2 trillion bailout just passed, and you have 3.2 trillion. Add to that the decrease in revenue due to the lockdown, and we have maybe another trillion or so.


I'm estimating 4 trillion, or more than the federal government normally takes in in taxes in a year.


Anyone else find these figures disconcerting? How long can that sort of deficit spending be sustained before the dollar collapses?


oh, and a trillion is such a large number most of us can't imagine it. Divide that trillion by 200 million, roughly the adult population of the USA, and four trillion is about $20,000 for every adult in America.


If my MasterCard had that much on it, and I didn't have that amount ready to pay it off, I'd be worried. Wouldn't you?
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So much for fiscally Conservative, it always was a load BS.
 
dcaraz said:
But if you have a low-demand skill job in many sectors that have grown over the past twenty years you are not likely
seeing your buying power increase.
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Wages have stagnated for blue-collar workers, and those whose earnings are not tied to equity bonuses. Inflation however has absolutely nothing to do with this problem, as it falls within the realm of bargaining power.

For too many millions of Americans working in retail, personal care services, maintenance, food prep, agriculture, day care, or package delivery it is only a dream to ever hope to own a home, or retire in comfort. In my lifetime (I am 70 years old) I have seen costs skyrocket for housing, medical care, insurance, food, autos, and college.
In 1982 our house cost $86K. Seventeen years later we moved to a slightly roomier home that cost $330K. Today, that original house is priced near $700K.
My college cost under $3K per semester. Same school today is $23K per semester.
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It's true that real estate prices have grown immensely, and the cost of education and healthcare have followed a similar trajectory. However, these examples are due to changes in supply and demand, and not due to a de facto loss in purchasing power. You don't see new construction in cities that caters to lower or middle income individuals and families... because it's simply not as profitable for the developers of this land (it's a matter of opportunity cost). When you venture outside of the cities, home prices are far more in line with the budgets of two-income families, and yes, a single income lower middle class family isn't going to be able to afford the same standard of living as a dual income lower middle class family. I don't think this comes as a surprise.

Most incomes have not kept pace with inflation for everything our consumer economy needs to market.
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Let's examine this claim:

fredgraph.png


And if our consumers fail to buy more each year, the US growth slows or stalls.
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This is true, but it's typically not the case outside of recessions.

I don't buy the business class argument that our economy can't support guaranteeing workers at least $15 per hour. A McDonald's worker in Denmark earns over $20 per hour, and the burger costs a few cents more. And that Danish burger maker has outstanding healthcare protection and better job security than her American counter part. WHY IS THAT?
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I completely agree. But this is another argument with respect to employment bargaining power, how we've abandoned unions, and has nothing to do with a moderate inflation environment.

The majority of people hold their wealth in their homes, various types of tax-advantage retirement accounts, etc.... Only a fool would hold money in cash and then complain about a reduction in purchasing power.

Your issue is about inequality, not inflation.
 
yankintx said:
So much for fiscally Conservative, it always was a load BS.
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So much for radical liberalism focused only on what you believe makes you look and feel good about your radical ideology. Liberalism is a fraud, an ideology that destroys incentive and creates dependence. I have posted over and over again the differences between the Obama and Trump debt only to be ignored. Return on investment doesn't seem to resonate with anyone from the left. Suggest you do more research and study than continuing to make yourself look foolish with false narratives.

How big will this year's deficit be, who knows at this point the question is what was your solution to the pandemic economic shutdown and economic stimulus? When the country returns to work taxpayers will begin funding the gov't again. The bipartisan CV stimulus bill was short term and temporary and since you don't have an alternative, all your rhetoric is nothing more than partisan bs.
 
dcaraz said:
What "policy and results" won Trump the White House?

His many construction bankruptcies? His having burned numerous bank lenders?
His claim to build a wall? His promise to drain the swamp?
Or was it his demand to see Obama's birth certificate?
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Does it make any difference since you don't understand our economy in the first place? You keep focusing on his past which has nothing to do with the present or the Trump results. You think Trump's past is going to drive people to the polls? Keep promoting the politics of personal destruction, class envy, jealousy and see if that overcomes the Biden malaise and lack of enthusiasm for him
 
=Dittohead not!;1071972855]First EO:



which means that people who don't have health insurance and show up at the emergency room don't ever have to pay. The rest of us take up the slack.
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No, it means people have a choice as do businesses, Guess choice only matters when it comes to abortion, right? Why do you think employers created so many part time jobs during the Obama term?? How about taxes to fund ACA?



That's as far as he could go toward eliminating the EPA. Burning river, anyone?
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Your state has an EPA, one of the strictest in the nation and yet your state leads the nation with the number of top polluted cities, why do we need a Federal EPA to do what your state does? You just want someone else to blame, suggest you look to your state capital and Democratic Leadership


does nothing to enhance safety or to eliminate illegal immigration. It just punishes cities that won't help the ICE.
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Really? so you want a massive federal presence in your state to take over for your state gov't? With regards to California, that might be a pretty good idea since your state gov't is so screwed up anyway, the massive blue state with typical blue state results, massive debt, massive entitlement programs, massive dependence, rich liberal elites that has created a dependent class that keeps them employed



Build the wall. How many pesos has he collected for this one?
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There are more than one way to pay for the wall, cutting illegal immigration is one of them



all terrorists are Muslim, and all Muslims are terrorists. Keep them out.
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No, send them to California to get stimulus checks



This with an EO? It would be a good thing for the legislative branch to pass it.

There are more, of course, but you... no, I mean other readers, get the picture.
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Yes we get the picture, the Trump results were really generated by Obama as a gift for him leaving office. You really have no understanding regarding the private sector, do you?
 
Dittohead not! said:
It started out as an estimate of one trillion. Add to that the 2.2 trillion bailout just passed, and you have 3.2 trillion. Add to that the decrease in revenue due to the lockdown, and we have maybe another trillion or so.


I'm estimating 4 trillion, or more than the federal government normally takes in in taxes in a year.


Anyone else find these figures disconcerting? How long can that sort of deficit spending be sustained before the dollar collapses?


oh, and a trillion is such a large number most of us can't imagine it. Divide that trillion by 200 million, roughly the adult population of the USA, and four trillion is about $20,000 for every adult in America.


If my MasterCard had that much on it, and I didn't have that amount ready to pay it off, I'd be worried. Wouldn't you?
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Giving you a heads up ditto. Conman tried that cowardly move again so you dont respond.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Exactly. Inflation is the worst tax of all, as it hits poor people the hardest. Spending trillions over tax revenues is a quick way to cause inflation.

A tax cut of 10% and increase of prices of 20% is no benefit to the consumer or the taxpayer.
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Inflation only occurs where demand outstrips supply and it is competition that keeps prices down and wages up.. You keep ignoring the difference between economic created debt and pandemic created debt. Return on investment remains the key and something the left doesn't understand. The question remains what are we getting for the Trump debt and that remains to be seen as current unemployment numbers reflect the shutdown of the economy not the Trump economic policies.
 
yankintx said:
So much for fiscally Conservative, it always was a load BS.
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Fiscal conservatives are on the endangered species list in Washington. Many think they've completely gone extinct, but there is an unconfirmed sighting now and again.
 
Conservative said:
Inflation only occurs where demand outstrips supply and it is competition that keeps prices down and wages up.. You keep ignoring the difference between economic created debt and pandemic created debt. Return on investment remains the key and something the left doesn't understand. The question remains what are we getting for the Trump debt and that remains to be seen as current unemployment numbers reflect the shutdown of the economy not the Trump economic policies.
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Inflation also occurs when there are more dollars chasing fewer goods and services.

This year, we will have about a trillion dollars of economic created debt, and two and a half trillion at least in pandemic created debt. If it makes a difference which is which, we should find out pretty soon.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Inflation also occurs when there are more dollars chasing fewer goods and services
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You're both saying the same thing. The important thing to note is with respect to monetary supply. What does the term more dollars mean?
 
Kushinator said:
You're both saying the same thing. The important thing to note is with respect to monetary supply. What does the term more dollars mean?
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It means that, when the government creates dollars out of thin air, which is what has been happening, the value of those dollars goes down.
 
99percenter said:
I a software developer and I will say prepandemic was a boom for us. You can literrally get a new job every 6 months and increase your salary by 50% - 100%. Not everyone has the luxury to do that.
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I appreciate your honesty. In the 1990's I worked as an art director at medical advertising agencies that were growing thanks to major pharmaceutical marketing budgets
for physician and hospital advertising. The market was tight for specialized talent and folks were head hunted whenever an ad agency landed a new client account.
It was a time of significant income increases for a few with specialized sought-after talent.

But a healthy and just society needs to make working more secure for folks who keep restaurants, buses, and grocery stores functioning.
 
Conservative said:
Then why would anyone leave a state with such beautiful beaches and weather? People are indeed fleeing the state because of cost of living driven by taxes and the fact that your state is becoming a third world nation with all the social problems
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May I add the reasons to leave California also include:

Unaffordable housing, drought and dwindling water sources, jammed freeways, earthquakes and the worst deadly fires this side of Australia.

Of course, taxes are high, cost of living is higher than many other states, and the state population is very diverse which means that
there are numerous reasons why any state loses population. Americans have 50 different states to consider. When my wife retires from her job we plan to
move from New York. Key reasons are high taxes and dense population/crowding. We have superb schools in our community. And high taxes to maintain
their rank. Housing is very expensive making home ownership impossible for many. Commuting if you work in New York City is also expensive. Taken together,
salaries are higher for many because cost of living demands it. That's tough on retirees and low wage workers.
 
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Conservative said:
Yes, that is what you said and yet you ignored the response to the 17/18 deficits and what caused those. How were those Trump's responsibility?

what we know is that you will never give Trump credit for anything and will always focus on rhetoric not substance. Trump's economic results are on full display results generated by conservative economic policies promoted by the Executive Orders issued almost day one after taking office then the tax cuts.

You continue to focus on the belief that the 07/09 recession was the cause of the poor recovery when the reality is it was the Obama policies that led to that poor recovery showing again that you don't understand the private sector nor did Obama.

How big is this year's deficits going to be?? No one knows but we do know that you will be blaming Trump for them, promoting a return to Democratic nanny state economics, and promoting another multi millionaire public servant in the WH in Biden.

Return on investment remains the key here, what are we going to get out of the Trump deficits in 2020 and what did we get out of the 9.3 trillion Obama deficits. Return on investment matters
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Oh so Obama is responsible for the 2009 debt ( under the Bush budget ) but Trump isn't responsible for the 2017 deficit I see again Democrats are responsible for everything and the Republicans are only responsible for thing that happen that are good
well I said Trump is not solely responsible for the 2020 deficit because of the CV thing , now tell us why he isn't responsible for the 2018 and 2019 deficits
You want to blame all the deficits and everything else on Obama when he was in office but don't want t to blame Trump for anything
and YES I know it is Congress that takes the Presidents " budget " and modifies it and are the ones responsible for it and the President signs it and becomes the one that gets blame for it
Have a nice day
 
Tbird19482 said:
Oh so Obama is responsible for the 2009 debt ( under the Bush budget ) but Trump isn't responsible for the 2017 deficit I see again Democrats are responsible for everything and the Republicans are only responsible for thing that happen that are good
well I said Trump is not solely responsible for the 2020 deficit because of the CV thing , now tell us why he isn't responsible for the 2018 and 2019 deficits
You want to blame all the deficits and everything else on Obama when he was in office but don't want t to blame Trump for anything
and YES I know it is Congress that takes the Presidents " budget " and modifies it and are the ones responsible for it and the President signs it and becomes the one that gets blame for it
Have a nice day
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correction
Trump IS responsible for a lot of the 2020 deficit but not all of it
the part of the deficit that is connected to the CV is not totally his
and we all under stand that
Have a nice afternoon
 
Tbird19482 said:
Oh so Obama is responsible for the 2009 debt ( under the Bush budget ) but Trump isn't responsible for the 2017 deficit I see again Democrats are responsible for everything and the Republicans are only responsible for thing that happen that are good
well I said Trump is not solely responsible for the 2020 deficit because of the CV thing , now tell us why he isn't responsible for the 2018 and 2019 deficits
You want to blame all the deficits and everything else on Obama when he was in office but don't want t to blame Trump for anything
and YES I know it is Congress that takes the Presidents " budget " and modifies it and are the ones responsible for it and the President signs it and becomes the one that gets blame for it
Have a nice day
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Where did I say that Trump wasn't responsible for the debt? Do you know what return on investment means? Your love affair with Obama is staggering and cult like

I posted the difference between the Trump debt and the Obama debt, you ignored the data
 
Dittohead not! said:
People are stupid. I knew that. What does that have to do with the government's deficit spending?
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That was showing a country opening up and people out spending money and getting active again, that activity will lower the deficit which will impact the debt
 
Conservative said:
That was showing a country opening up and people out spending money and getting active again, that activity will lower the deficit which will impact the debt
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yes, until the virus surges, as it surely will since there still is no cure and no vaccine. Ignoring reality is not the way back to prosperity.
 
Samwise said:
Are you disputing that inflation erodes wealth?
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Yes. Inflation erodes the purchasing power of cash and cash like equivalents. Inflation doesn't harm holders of dollar denominated assets like fixed incomes, stocks, and real estate.

This is basic stuff....
 
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