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How big will this year's deficit be?

Conservative said:
Obama GDP dollar growth, 747+688+487=1922/3=639 billion average dollar growth per year. Also notice the decline in 2015-2016

Trump GDP dollar growth 804+1060+846=2710/3=903 billion per year
Click to expand...

This is statistically invalid. Purchasing power throughout the time series is different throughout. That's why you adjust for inflation.

So tell me again how Trump's numbers are similar to Obama and how Trump continued the Obama Economy? I am sure there is someone in California that can explain these results to you
Click to expand...

fredgraph.png


This is a valid historical comparison.
 
Kushinator said:
False... You don't know what cherry-picking means, even though that's your modus operandi.



Obviously the GDP dollars are going to be higher during Trump than Obama.



Debt isn't adjusted for inflation, and it's statistically invalid to do so. You don't know why.



I don't want to ignore anything. Percentage change of real output is the most valid means of making a historical comparison based on the underlying strength of an economy.

Your lack of a proper economic education is on display.
Click to expand...

LOL, again, Post 551 and 552 ignored as usual. Let me make it ever simpler for you, the last three years of Obama and that incredible trend you claim existed and to lessen inflation, By the way how much inflation would there be between 2016 and 2017? 2016 and 2018? Keep showing liberal arrogance and liberal ignorance

2014 +742 billion GDP dollar growth
2015 +688 Billion GDP dollar growth
2016 +487 Billion GDP dollar growth

Seems to be trending downward, hmmmm

Total Average 639 Billion GDP dollar growth

Trump

2017 +804
2018+1060
2019 +846

Total Average 903 Billion growth per year, that is called a liberal ass whipping
 
Kushinator said:
This is statistically invalid. Purchasing power throughout the time series is different throughout. That's why you adjust for inflation.



fredgraph.png


This is a valid historical comparison.
Click to expand...

You keep ignoring that purchasing power is at the local level and people keeping more of their own money benefited from the tax cuts and used the money to purchase goods and services which benefited themselves and the state coffers. What is obvious is you are clueless when it comes to people and what benefits them. Post 551 and Post 552, NOT Post 577, all official data that you want to ignore

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: April 29, 2020 - Next Release Date May 28, 2020

Line 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
Line
1 Gross domestic product 14712.8 14448.9 14992.1 15542.6 16197 16784.9 17527.3 18224.8 18715 19519.4 20580.2 21427.7
Click to expand...
 
Conservative said:
LOL, again, Post 551 and 552 ignored as usual.
Click to expand...

Your arguments presented in post 551 and 552 have already been deemed to be invalid. Your response was, "tell that to the electorate". This is the same electorate that gave Democrats the House and two governorships in Republican states.


Conservative said:
You keep ignoring that purchasing power is at the local level
Click to expand...

An incoherent claim. Purchasing power is reflected in various pricing indices. Ignoring them in an attempt to score political points is an act of desperateness. When the BEA releases their GDP data... They headline it with real gross domestic product and reference growth rates. This is simply a matter of fact.

You continue to try to push a statistically invalid comparative measure. It won't work.
 
Kushinator said:
Your arguments presented in post 551 and 552 have already been deemed to be invalid. Your response was, "tell that to the electorate". This is the same electorate that gave Democrats the House and two governorships in Republican states.




An incoherent claim. Purchasing power is reflected in various pricing indices. Ignoring them in an attempt to score political points is an act of desperateness. When the BEA releases their GDP data... They headline it with real gross domestic product and reference growth rates. This is simply a matter of fact.

You continue to try to push a statistically invalid comparative measure. It won't work.
Click to expand...

My argument is invalid? that would make the Treasury data invalid, suggest you take it up with them, let me know what their comments are. What is obvious is liberal arrogance and inability to admit when wrong, not only is the data correct the election results show it, Obama lost the House in 10-12-14-16 and the Senate in 14-16. Democrats lost seats in 18. The American people know how they feel and they felt that the Obama economic policies weren't worthy of their vote.

Your passion and loyalty to the Obama legacy is staggering so let me once again admit that I was wrong when I called you book smart. Book smart doesn't describe you, lacking logic, common sense and human relations skills would be more like it.
 
Conservative said:
My argument is invalid? that would make the Treasury data invalid, suggest you take it up with them, let me know what their comments are. What is obvious is liberal arrogance and inability to admit when wrong, not only is the data correct the election results show it, Obama lost the House in 10-12-14-16 and the Senate in 14-16. Democrats lost seats in 18. The American people know how they feel and they felt that the Obama economic policies weren't worthy of their vote.

Your passion and loyalty to the Obama legacy is staggering so let me once again admit that I was wrong when I called you book smart. Book smart doesn't describe you, lacking logic, common sense and human relations skills would be more like it.
Click to expand...

The dems flipped 40 gop seats in 18.
 
Kushinator said:
That's correct.



The Treasury data isn't an argument... your invalid interpretation has led you to create an invalid argument.
Click to expand...

LOL, you are truly a legend in your own mind, no reason to continue this, Post 551,552, and the election results tell the world all that needs to be said, Liberal economic policies are complete failures creating dependence that doesn't sit well with the American electorate. My interpretation jives with the electorates interpretation so tell me again who is right and who is wrong in what matters, Congressional power? And please don't give me the liberal bull**** of the House going Democrat in 2018, irrelevant as states still elected more Republicans to the Senate. Just admit it, you are clueless when it comes to the private sector economy and what motivates people to vote?
 
Kushinator said:
That's correct.



The Treasury data isn't an argument... your invalid interpretation has led you to create an invalid argument.
Click to expand...

Some people want to keep comparing an economy that was in a recession and was getting out of it to an economy that wasn't
It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation whit them on this subject
Have a nice afternoon
 
Tbird19482 said:
Some people want to keep comparing an economy that was in a recession and was getting out of it to an economy that wasn't
It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation whit them on this subject
Have a nice afternoon
Click to expand...

with not whit
 
Tbird19482 said:
Some people want to keep comparing an economy that was in a recession and was getting out of it to an economy that wasn't
It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation whit them on this subject
Have a nice afternoon
Click to expand...

The economy came out of recession in June 2009, keep spreading that leftwing bs showing just how poorly informed you are and what a love affair you have with Obama and failed liberal economics
 
Tbird19482 said:
Some people want to keep comparing an economy that was in a recession and was getting out of it to an economy that wasn't
It is impossible to have an intelligent conversation whit them on this subject
Have a nice afternoon
Click to expand...

Noticed that like most liberals in this forum you ignored the official data in post 551 and 552, that speaks volumes about the ability of the left to indoctrinate people.
 
Conservative said:
Here is the data again that you are ignoring



GDP Obama 14.7 trillion to 18.7 trillion divided by 8=500 billion per year

Trump GDP 18.7 to 21.4 trillion = 2.7 trillion divided by 3=900 billion per year

Consumer spending/consumption

Obama 9.9 trillion to 12.7= 2.8 trillion in 8 years=350 billion per year

Trump 12.7 trillion to 14.5 trillion in 3 years=600 billion per year
Click to expand...

and since it is the president, not the fed or the Congress or American industry that determines the GDP, that means that Trump did a better job.

According to your logic.
 
Conservative said:
Noticed that like most liberals in this forum you ignored the official data in post 551 and 552, that speaks volumes about the ability of the left to indoctrinate people.
Click to expand...

Do you really want to contend that trillion dollar deficits at a time of economic prosperity are a good idea?

If they are, why did Donald Trump promise to cut the deficit?
 
Dittohead not! said:
and since it is the president, not the fed or the Congress or American industry that determines the GDP, that means that Trump did a better job.

According to your logic.
Click to expand...

Economic policies generate the incentive for GDP activity and growth, Obama's failed, Trump's succeeded
 
Dittohead not! said:
Do you really want to contend that trillion dollar deficits at a time of economic prosperity are a good idea?

If they are, why did Donald Trump promise to cut the deficit?
Click to expand...

I showed you how prosperous we were under Obama and that didn't resonate nor do the deficits and what we got for them. What a waste of time

There seems to be a real disconnect when it comes to debt and the results generated from that debt thus showing that all debt isn't equal. What exactly did the American taxpayers get out of the Obama debt??

1. The worst recovery from a major recession in modern history
2. Employment not getting back to pre recession levels until 2014
3. Record numbers of part time for economic reason employment meaning part time jobs thus lower taxpaying jobs
4. 500 billion average annual GDP growth for 8 years(4.0 Trillion GDP growth)
5. 9.3% U-6 Unemployment rate
6. Bail out of the pubic sector and claimed saved jobs which didn't generate the promised new jobs thus new taxpayers from 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus

What have we gotten for the Trump debt

1. Strong economic growth, 900 billion average GDP growth 2017-2018-2019(2.7 trillion growth)
2. Employment of 6.6 million jobs created in 3 years vs. 6 million jobs created prior to taking office the last 9 years
3. 6.9% U-6 vs. 9.3% that he inherited
4. 1.4 million fewer part time for economic reason employees than inherited
5. 6% African American unemployment vs. the 8% inherited
6. Record state and local tax revenue due to consumer spending as a result of the tax cuts
7. No massive Gov't stimulus program pre pandemic

Looks to me like the Trump debt generated better return than Obama's, await your reply?
 
Conservative said:
I showed you how prosperous we were under Obama and that didn't resonate nor do the deficits and what we got for them. What a waste of time

There seems to be a real disconnect when it comes to debt and the results generated from that debt thus showing that all debt isn't equal. What exactly did the American taxpayers get out of the Obama debt??

1. The worst recovery from a major recession in modern history
2. Employment not getting back to pre recession levels until 2014
3. Record numbers of part time for economic reason employment meaning part time jobs thus lower taxpaying jobs
4. 500 billion average annual GDP growth for 8 years(4.0 Trillion GDP growth)
5. 9.3% U-6 Unemployment rate
6. Bail out of the pubic sector and claimed saved jobs which didn't generate the promised new jobs thus new taxpayers from 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus

What have we gotten for the Trump debt

1. Strong economic growth, 900 billion average GDP growth 2017-2018-2019(2.7 trillion growth)
2. Employment of 6.6 million jobs created in 3 years vs. 6 million jobs created prior to taking office the last 9 years
3. 6.9% U-6 vs. 9.3% that he inherited
4. 1.4 million fewer part time for economic reason employees than inherited
5. 6% African American unemployment vs. the 8% inherited
6. Record state and local tax revenue due to consumer spending as a result of the tax cuts
7. No massive Gov't stimulus program pre pandemic

Looks to me like the Trump debt generated better return than Obama's, await your reply?
Click to expand...

The "Trump debt, " as you want to call it, happened when the economy was already on the upswing. The stimulus plans passed by Congress and signed into law by Obama happened when there was a deep recession.

So, yes, the debt is not the same in that sense. The one was necessary, the other was not.

And now Congress, during the Trump Administration, just passed another stimulus that is roughly three times as large as the one passed back in '08, and leading to the biggest deficit in history.
 
Dittohead not! said:
The "Trump debt, " as you want to call it, happened when the economy was already on the upswing. The stimulus plans passed by Congress and signed into law by Obama happened when there was a deep recession.

So, yes, the debt is not the same in that sense. The one was necessary, the other was not.

And now Congress, during the Trump Administration, just passed another stimulus that is roughly three times as large as the one passed back in '08, and leading to the biggest deficit in history.
Click to expand...

Sell that bull**** to the American people who are keeping more of what they earn which is quite different than the crap we got from Obama
 
Conservative said:
I showed you how prosperous we were under Obama and that didn't resonate nor do the deficits and what we got for them. What a waste of time

There seems to be a real disconnect when it comes to debt and the results generated from that debt thus showing that all debt isn't equal. What exactly did the American taxpayers get out of the Obama debt??

1. The worst recovery from a major recession in modern history
2. Employment not getting back to pre recession levels until 2014
3. Record numbers of part time for economic reason employment meaning part time jobs thus lower taxpaying jobs
4. 500 billion average annual GDP growth for 8 years(4.0 Trillion GDP growth)
5. 9.3% U-6 Unemployment rate
6. Bail out of the pubic sector and claimed saved jobs which didn't generate the promised new jobs thus new taxpayers from 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus

What have we gotten for the Trump debt

1. Strong economic growth, 900 billion average GDP growth 2017-2018-2019(2.7 trillion growth)
2. Employment of 6.6 million jobs created in 3 years vs. 6 million jobs created prior to taking office the last 9 years
3. 6.9% U-6 vs. 9.3% that he inherited
4. 1.4 million fewer part time for economic reason employees than inherited
5. 6% African American unemployment vs. the 8% inherited
6. Record state and local tax revenue due to consumer spending as a result of the tax cuts
7. No massive Gov't stimulus program pre pandemic

Looks to me like the Trump debt generated better return than Obama's, await your reply?
Click to expand...

bull****. the u-6 under trump is 30%. Nice try.
 
obama lowered the u -6 from 14.2 to 9.2
bush raised it from 7.3 to 14.2
trump raised it from 9.2 to 22.8% (true number is close to 30 because trump is manipulating the numbers)

U6 Unemployment Rate | Portal Seven
 
Dittohead not! said:
The "Trump debt, " as you want to call it, happened when the economy was already on the upswing. The stimulus plans passed by Congress and signed into law by Obama happened when there was a deep recession.

So, yes, the debt is not the same in that sense. The one was necessary, the other was not.

And now Congress, during the Trump Administration, just passed another stimulus that is roughly three times as large as the one passed back in '08, and leading to the biggest deficit in history.
Click to expand...

As usual, you ignore context as well as what the American people get from that gov't spending. I gave you a small sample but that doesn't resonate, maybe this will, this is your replacement for Trump.

Pete Buffington - NEVER, EVER watch The View, unless... | Facebook
 
Dittohead not! said:
You mean all the times Obama raised taxes?
When was that again?
Click to expand...

This is typical liberal baiting, you know the answer but won't admit it. Return on investment isn't something you understand and living in California is probably why. there is a reason Obama lost the House in 10-12-14-16 and the Senate in 14-16 as the American people got exactly what I posted and you ignored, Post 551 and 552 along with 591. Debt occurs due to the spending of the line items in the budget exceeding the amount of revenue collected from the taxes created to pay for those line items. You cannot seem to grasp that reality.

You also cannot seem to grasp the difference between the debt Obama generated and the debt Trump generated but then again living in California I understand why. Post 591 explains it to you get some help reading it
 
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