How big will this year's deficit be?

Samwise said:

So...government deficit spending is good? Bad? Not sure what your position is here.

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It depends. There isn't a constant approach to fiscal policy.

Dittohead not! said:

It started out as an estimate of one trillion. Add to that the 2.2 trillion bailout just passed, and you have 3.2 trillion. Add to that the decrease in revenue due to the lockdown, and we have maybe another trillion or so.


I'm estimating 4 trillion, or more than the federal government normally takes in in taxes in a year.


Anyone else find these figures disconcerting? How long can that sort of deficit spending be sustained before the dollar collapses?


oh, and a trillion is such a large number most of us can't imagine it. Divide that trillion by 200 million, roughly the adult population of the USA, and four trillion is about $20,000 for every adult in America.


If my MasterCard had that much on it, and I didn't have that amount ready to pay it off, I'd be worried. Wouldn't you?

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I think because of the introduction of fiat currency, the deficit does not matter..

Just like for the rest of human history only your military really matters.. well and your countries support for whatever conflict..


Look at it this way....

We are trading tangible goods and services for promissory notes that we will only pay if we feel like it..


If China calls in its debts tomorrow, we will not be giving them Alaska to squash it. We would tell them to kick rocks.

At that point we have all those goods and services, and they have little pieces of paper not even very good for burning.


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Samwise said:

So...government deficit spending is good? Bad? Not sure what your position is here.

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It is good..

It shows that other countries consider your credit good.

No difference than if you try and buy a car with no credit.


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Kushinator said:

It depends. There isn't a constant approach to fiscal policy.

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Yeah, so the government should drop tax rates (leaving more money in people's hands to spur consumption), and then it should pay for the military, social security, and medicare via debt. Because the government can create as much debt as it wishes because it's not like a household. It's a sovereign state.

Samwise said:

Yeah, so the government should drop tax rates (leaving more money in people's hands to spur consumption), and then it should pay for the military, social security, and medicare via debt. Because the government can create as much debt as it wishes because it's not like a household. It's a sovereign state.

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I simply do not trust the federal government to be able to allow their budgeting to ebb and flow on the basis of economic data. Congressional dysfunction is well documented... they will use unlimited budgeting to get themselves re-elected. Its a race to the bottom that will lead to a plethora of asset bubbles.

Because... people are generally ****ing stupid.

Kushinator said:

I simply do not trust the federal government to be able to allow their budgeting to ebb and flow on the basis of economic data. Congressional dysfunction is well documented... they will use unlimited budgeting to get themselves re-elected. Its a race to the bottom that will lead to a plethora of asset bubbles.

Because... people are generally ****ing stupid.

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That's a good argument for a hard money standard.

Samwise said:

That's a good argument for a hard money standard.

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No it's not.

It's a good argument to continue to keep monetary policy independent of fiscal policy.

Kushinator said:

No it's not.

It's a good argument to continue to keep monetary policy independent of fiscal policy.

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You trust the federal government, even though they're basically ****ing stupid?

Samwise said:

You trust the federal government, even though they're basically ****ing stupid?

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I trust them much more with the proper checks and balances in place. It is imperative we keep Congress away from the printing press.

Kushinator said:

I trust them much more with the proper checks and balances in place. It is imperative we keep Congress away from the printing press.

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So who should run the printing press?

Samwise said:

So who should run the printing press?

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The independent central banking authority... i.e. the Federal Reserve.

Kushinator said:

The independent central banking authority... i.e. the Federal Reserve.

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So...the government should control the printing presses. Got it. Even thought the government is basically ****ing stupid.

Samwise said:

So...the government should control the printing presses. Got it. Even thought the government is basically ****ing stupid.

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The Federal Reserve isn't the government. They are an independent central bank given authority via congress to conduct monetary policy for the United States and independent of political structures. The people who make up the Federal Reserve Board of Governors are typically peer-respected lawyers, financiers, and economists. They aren't know-nothing politicians. There is a difference.

Kushinator said:

The Federal Reserve isn't the government. They are an independent central bank given authority via congress to conduct monetary policy for the United States and independent of political structures. The people who make up the Federal Reserve Board of Governors are typically peer-respected lawyers, financiers, and economists. They aren't know-nothing politicians. There is a difference.

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Can any other firms compete with this "independent" bank?

Samwise said:

Can any other firm compete with this "independent" bank?

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Another strange question. You appear to be new, so i'll cut you some slack. What part of central bank do you not understand? It is the banks bank. It does not exist to finance the whimsical desires of the populace.

Here is a very important lesson:



You are fixated on normative reasoning while lacking a positive foundation. I'd start from there, and then build your way up to the fundamental concepts in macro and micro economics.

Kushinator said:

Another strange question. You appear to be new, so i'll cut you some slack. What part of central bank do you not understand? It is the banks bank. It does not exist to finance the whimsical desires of the populace.

Here is a very important lesson:

Normative Economics: based on the subjective notion of what should happen​

Positive Economics: based on what does happen​

You are fixated on normative reasoning while lacking a positive foundation. I'd start from there, and then build your way up to the fundamental concepts in macro and micro economics.

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So a private firm can create US dollars?

Kushinator said:

Nothing is being ignored. They just mean what you want them to mean, and therefore we have to watch you melt-down on a daily basis because you and Trump made his entire Presidency based on the economy and now the U.S. is in the beginning stages of an economic depression.

You're frightened, and what do you do when backed into a corner?

Perhaps if the President cared about anything else, we would have been in a better position to combat the crisis, and prevent the current economic damage we face today.

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Post 420 ignored because post 420 shows a partisan arrogant liberal where it is more important to be liked than getting actual results.

Samwise said:

So a private firm can create US dollars?

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Money is created in banks... not by the Federal Reserve. When it comes to the money supply, the Fed has the authority to create base money. Banks create money by issuing loans.

Conservative said:

Post 420 ignored because post 420 shows a partisan arrogant liberal where it is more important to be liked than getting actual results.

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I am not ignoring anything. It has already been established that it is completely ignorant to historically compare economic growth on the basis of nominal output. We know why you continue to do so.

You're a dishonest partisan hack who isn't very good at communication and basic arithmetic.

Kushinator said:

I am not ignoring anything. It has already been established that it is completely ignorant to historically compare economic growth on the basis of nominal output. We know why you continue to do so.

You're a dishonest partisan hack who isn't very good at communication and basic arithmetic.

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From yesterday and the same results today

I have to jump in here and restate what many people here know, you embody everything that is wrong with liberalism, arrogance, name calling, thinking you are smarter than everyone else, thinking that you know what everyone else needs, and always looking at graphs not realizing those are actual people that your ideology has made dependent while enriching the liberal leadership. Appealing to the hearts of good people and convincing them that spending in the name of compassion is all that matters but then having them find out that that compassion is dependents shows just what a fraud the liberal ideology is

It is a waste of time dealing with people who are so arrogant and people who are totally out of touch with reality believing the left wing rhetoric, promoting the politics of personal destruction, having class envy and jealousy of the private sector while allowing the public sector to grow, expand and destroy individual freedoms.

I do feel very sorry for those of you buying the leftwing bull****, believing that Obama was better than he was, ignoring actual history, ignoring official data in context, and more importantly ignoring that the election results are what matters and the American people are sick and tired of the politics of personal destruction the left spews.

It is the arrogance of the left that creates most of the problems that conservative economic policies correct and it is the left fighting hard to save their power and ideology as people are coming to grips with the lies. You people can demonize me, demonize Trump, demonize individual wealth creation but the one thing you cannot do is post actual results that match the rhetoric of liberalism. Creating massive entitlement programs that destroy incentive destroys individual will and will eventually lead to that failed liberal utopia that the left wants.

I am not leaving the forum but I am no longer going to engage in a contest with people who don't understand context and people who don't understand human nature. There is only one viable economic model that works for people and that is the conservative model as you don't see conservatives whining and complaining about what someone else earns or pays in taxes. That belongs to liberals who create dependence and you never bite the hand that feeds you.

So keep it up, keep up the arrogance, name calling, cheerleading of each other and I will continue enjoying the successes being generated by conservative economic policies and the recovery we are going to experience thanks to this President

Conservative said:

From yesterday and the same results today

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Serial repetition is just your way of telling us you surrender. You were proven wrong with respect to your trash statements regarding economic growth and recovery following financial crises.

Kushinator said:

Money is created in banks... not by the Federal Reserve. When it comes to the money supply, the Fed has the authority to create base money. Banks create money by issuing loans.

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So any private firm can create base money?

Samwise said:

So any private firm can create base money?

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I'm not sure why you're having problems comprehending what i'm saying. If you don't have a point to make, why continue to quote me with the same questions and responses?

Kushinator said:

I'm not sure why you're having problems comprehending what i'm saying. If you don't have a point to make, why continue to quote me with the same questions and responses?

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You claim the federal reserve isn't the government. If that is the case, then any other private firm should be able to print money.

Samwise said:

You claim the federal reserve isn't the government. If that is the case, then any other private firm should be able to print money.

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And as i correctly have to point out once again... money is created in banks. You're trying to pigeon hole me and it's clearly not working. If you don't have an actual response for the posts you quote... why even bother?