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Thread: How big will this year's deficit be?

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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    no, I can do the math. I just don't want to have to do your research for you.

    According to your figures: Growth during the Obama years was 4 trillion, or just over 27%.
    During the Trump years, prior to the pandemic, it was 2.7 trillion or just over 14%.

    Now, what is it you conclude from those figures? I've already shown you a graph showing a steady growth starting in 2008 with no sudden jumps. Your figures are showing the same thing.

    Anyway, you can't attribute economic growth to the occupant of the White House.
    LOL, percentage change means what? Dollars matter not percentage and the higher the numerator and Denominator the lower the percentage is going to be yet generate dollar growth.

    You focus on Trends but even the trends don't support your claims as the trend in dollar growth dropped in 2016 which is what Trump inherited,

    You don't seem to able to admit when wrong and yes you can attribute growth when the occupant in the WH implements pro growth/pro private sector economic policies

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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    LOL, percentage change means what? Dollars matter not percentage and the higher the numerator and Denominator the lower the percentage is going to be yet generate dollar growth.

    You focus on Trends but even the trends don't support your claims as the trend in dollar growth dropped in 2016 which is what Trump inherited,

    You don't seem to able to admit when wrong and yes you can attribute growth when the occupant in the WH implements pro growth/pro private sector economic policies
    Percentage change means a steady growth starting in 2008, exactly what my chart and your figures show, not that it matters. This nation, despite what some of the so called "conservatives" claim, is a capitalistic nation. The economy is not run by the government, and certainly not by the president.

    Tell you what: If you think that percentage growth doesn't matter, then you must think that the dollar growth back in 2008 is worth the same as the same dollar growth in 2020. Now, go try to buy a house for what it cost back in 2008.
    The above post is a reflection of my great and unmatched wisdom. Please revere it.

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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Percentage change means a steady growth starting in 2008, exactly what my chart and your figures show, not that it matters. This nation, despite what some of the so called "conservatives" claim, is a capitalistic nation. The economy is not run by the government, and certainly not by the president.

    Tell you what: If you think that percentage growth doesn't matter, then you must think that the dollar growth back in 2008 is worth the same as the same dollar growth in 2020. Now, go try to buy a house for what it cost back in 2008.
    Percentage change means nothing compared to dollar growth, you can make $100 this year, 101 next year, 102 the following year and claim upward trends which is what you are trying to do here. Taking GDP growth from 697 billion down to 487 billion is continued growth but declining dollar growth and that is what people see and feel.

    You also don't seem to have any understanding for the components of GDP for if you did you would understand the impact the 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus had on the Obama GDP growth. The left loves having people like you but thankfully there remains a silent majority that get it and see it in their bank accounts and actions that don't promote dependence

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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Percentage change means nothing compared to dollar growth, you can make $100 this year, 101 next year, 102 the following year and claim upward trends which is what you are trying to do here. Taking GDP growth from 697 billion down to 487 billion is continued growth but declining dollar growth and that is what people see and feel.

    You also don't seem to have any understanding for the components of GDP for if you did you would understand the impact the 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus had on the Obama GDP growth. The left loves having people like you but thankfully there remains a silent majority that get it and see it in their bank accounts and actions that don't promote dependence
    You seem to be concerned about the deficit spending under Obama providing for jobs to stimulate the economy, but not for the deficit spending under Trump prior to the pandemic providing for nothing.
    The above post is a reflection of my great and unmatched wisdom. Please revere it.

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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Percentage change means nothing compared to dollar growth, you can make $100 this year, 101 next year, 102 the following year and claim upward trends which is what you are trying to do here. Taking GDP growth from 697 billion down to 487 billion is continued growth but declining dollar growth and that is what people see and feel.

    You also don't seem to have any understanding for the components of GDP for if you did you would understand the impact the 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus had on the Obama GDP growth. The left loves having people like you but thankfully there remains a silent majority that get it and see it in their bank accounts and actions that don't promote dependence
    Ok since percantages dont matter gdp only grew 2 trillion during reagan. So is obama better than reagan?
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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    You seem to be concerned about the deficit spending under Obama providing for jobs to stimulate the economy, but not for the deficit spending under Trump prior to the pandemic providing for nothing.
    Didn't pay any attention to the post I made earlier didn't you? It is about return on that debt and what we got for it. Deficits are made up of both spending and revenue, with the economy shutdown there isn't any revenue going to the federal govt thus the the deficit is going to be huge. Who benefits from a shutdown economy, Trump or Biden?

    You keep ignoring official data and results, that is baiting and trolling on your part. Trump's results prior to the pandemic were the best of any President in history for the first three years of any administration but because neither you or the left understands context, you post percentage change and not dollar growth and you promote U-3 percentage for unemployment rather than U-6.

    Trump's debt growth pre pandemic was due to entitlement and debt service spending, you keep ignoring that. The benefit to the people however as much greater than Obama's as people were keeping more of what they earned and there was record employment including full time employees. Since you missed the data, here it is again

    There seems to be a real disconnect when it comes to debt and the results generated from that debt thus showing that all debt isn't equal. What exactly did the American taxpayers get out of the Obama debt??

    1. The worst recovery from a major recession in modern history
    2. Employment not getting back to pre recession levels until 2014
    3. Record numbers of part time for economic reason employment meaning part time jobs thus lower taxpaying jobs
    4. 500 billion average annual GDP growth for 8 years(4.0 Trillion GDP growth)
    5. 9.3% U-6 Unemployment rate
    6. Bail out of the pubic sector and claimed saved jobs which didn't generate the promised new jobs thus new taxpayers from 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus

    What have we gotten for the Trump debt

    1. Strong economic growth, 900 billion average GDP growth 2017-2018-2019(2.7 trillion growth)
    2. Employment of 6.6 million jobs created in 3 years vs. 6 million jobs created prior to taking office the last 9 years
    3. 6.9% U-6 vs. 9.3% that he inherited
    4. 1.4 million fewer part time for economic reason employees than inherited
    5. 6% African American unemployment vs. the 8% inherited
    6. Record state and local tax revenue due to consumer spending as a result of the tax cuts
    7. No massive Gov't stimulus program pre pandemic

    Looks to me like the Trump debt generated better return than Obama's, await your reply?

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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Didn't pay any attention to the post I made earlier didn't you? It is about return on that debt and what we got for it. Deficits are made up of both spending and revenue, with the economy shutdown there isn't any revenue going to the federal govt thus the the deficit is going to be huge. Who benefits from a shutdown economy, Trump or Biden?

    You keep ignoring official data and results, that is baiting and trolling on your part. Trump's results prior to the pandemic were the best of any President in history for the first three years of any administration but because neither you or the left understands context, you post percentage change and not dollar growth and you promote U-3 percentage for unemployment rather than U-6.

    Trump's debt growth pre pandemic was due to entitlement and debt service spending, you keep ignoring that. The benefit to the people however as much greater than Obama's as people were keeping more of what they earned and there was record employment including full time employees. Since you missed the data, here it is again

    There seems to be a real disconnect when it comes to debt and the results generated from that debt thus showing that all debt isn't equal. What exactly did the American taxpayers get out of the Obama debt??

    1. The worst recovery from a major recession in modern history
    2. Employment not getting back to pre recession levels until 2014
    3. Record numbers of part time for economic reason employment meaning part time jobs thus lower taxpaying jobs
    4. 500 billion average annual GDP growth for 8 years(4.0 Trillion GDP growth)
    5. 9.3% U-6 Unemployment rate
    6. Bail out of the pubic sector and claimed saved jobs which didn't generate the promised new jobs thus new taxpayers from 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus

    What have we gotten for the Trump debt

    1. Strong economic growth, 900 billion average GDP growth 2017-2018-2019(2.7 trillion growth)
    2. Employment of 6.6 million jobs created in 3 years vs. 6 million jobs created prior to taking office the last 9 years
    3. 6.9% U-6 vs. 9.3% that he inherited
    4. 1.4 million fewer part time for economic reason employees than inherited
    5. 6% African American unemployment vs. the 8% inherited
    6. Record state and local tax revenue due to consumer spending as a result of the tax cuts
    7. No massive Gov't stimulus program pre pandemic

    Looks to me like the Trump debt generated better return than Obama's, await your reply?
    Of course that's how it looks to you. You're looking at the world through Trump colored glasses. If you looked at your own data critically, you would see that the economy started growing back in 2008 and grew steadily until the pandemic hit. You would see that, while the deficit decreased under Obama, it increased under Trump before the pandemic hit.

    But, you can't see those things because you have those Trump blinders on.

    You probably think that Mexico is paying for a wall on our southern border and that we now have Trumpcare making sure everyone has access to health care.
    The above post is a reflection of my great and unmatched wisdom. Please revere it.

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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post

    What have we gotten for the Trump debt
    100,000+ americans dead because of the trump virus. 40 million americans out of work. negative gdp. $5 trillion deficit. Weakest military in the US history. Our enemies stronger and embolden by trump's pussiness. That's what we have gotten.
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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Of course that's how it looks to you. You're looking at the world through Trump colored glasses. If you looked at your own data critically, you would see that the economy started growing back in 2008 and grew steadily until the pandemic hit. You would see that, while the deficit decreased under Obama, it increased under Trump before the pandemic hit.

    But, you can't see those things because you have those Trump blinders on.

    You probably think that Mexico is paying for a wall on our southern border and that we now have Trumpcare making sure everyone has access to health care.
    Trump colored glasses? What exactly would those be and why is it that official data doesn't resonate with you? You challenged me on the GDP numbers and ignored the link and the official BEA.gov spreadsheet posted. You seem to be looking at everything through those rosy California glasses that you have where liberal social results are ignored.

    This thread is all about blaming Trump for the deficit during the pandemic and shows total ignorance of the results pre pandemic. No matter what data I posted you won't buy it including why the deficits rose during Trump's two budget years and your total lack of objectivity in reviewing the Obama and Trump deficits and debt, what the American people got for both.

    You show a typical liberal ignorance regarding the private sector and seem to lean on the need for California style liberal economic and social policies. The fifth largest economy in the world isn't reaching the people that the left claims they want to help. Why should we re-elect a career politician to the Presidency?

    Seems that when I post official data it is called Trump blinders. Why is it that official results don't resonate with you? The love affair you and the rest of the left have with Obama and liberalism is staggering ignorance as to the true role of the Presidency and of individual state governors

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    Re: How big will this year's deficit be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Seems that when I post official data it is called Trump blinders. Why is it that official results don't resonate with you? The love affair you and the rest of the left have with Obama and liberalism is staggering ignorance as to the true role of the Presidency and of individual state governors
    Obama has nothing to do with this thread. You're just incapable of having an actual discussion, and so the only strategy you can put forth is to deflect to your army of cherry-picked strawmen.

    Remember:

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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