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MMT to the rescue!

Helix said:
Maybe we'll hear renewed calls for the trillion dollar coin solution. Then Turtleboy and Pelosi can thumb wrestle over whether to give it to a rich old white (orange?) guy or to everyone else.
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Actually this is always an option. The mint could make a trillion dollar coin and deposit it at the FED in return for dollars. The books would balance perfectly. Its called seignorage.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
First of all, you don't make predictions, you make guesses. Predictions are based on something besides a complete lack of knowledge. You only have a complete lack of knowledge.

Second, it's the pandemic and our (necessary) response to mitigate the spread of infection that will cause whatever economic damage that ensues.

You have never coherently explained why national debts are a problem, either in good times or in bad.

You never believed that MMT works, even when things are "hunky dory," in the past. Don't change now, just because you think it suits your (ridiculous) argument.

The government is going to create and spend a bunch of money to try and keep the economy afloat. They won't spend enough, as always, because they still don't get it. And when they don't spend nearly enough, you can't blame MMT or Keynesianism or anything else for their failure.

If you still have a problem with MMT, put your money where your mouth is and tear up the checks you get. They're worthless anyway, right? Tear them up, or stop your constant yapping.
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Huge national debts are a problem because if something like this happens, then the world is thrown into economic free fall. Large deficits aren't really a problem as long as the economy is growing. It's NOT growing. It's contracting. MMT doesn't take into account these types of events. They always have a rosy outlook. Nothing can possibly go wrong in the MMT world.
 
Vadinho said:
Actually this is always an option. The mint could make a trillion dollar coin and deposit it at the FED in return for dollars. The books would balance perfectly. Its called seignorage.
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yeah, it sounds like a plan. i'm just left wondering what the design of the deposited currency should be. i've narrowed it down to two images. let me know which you like the best.

1. Zimbabwe Trillion_3_CROP.jpg

2. hyperinflationary firewood.jpg
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Best of all, it would be financed, debt-free, by minting two trillion-dollar platinum coins. This is straight from MMT; a prominent MMTer came up with much of the plan himself.
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This isn't really even a realistic proposal.

A more likely scenario is a gradual trajectory towards negative interest rates, and the sale of a new type of Treasury Security: the zero coupon perpetuity.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
Money to the lower classes is the best-spent money of all, because they need it the most, and because they spend 100% of what they get.
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True, though i think they also need institutions that will enhance their ability to have a decent life in the long run but thats a different topic.
 
Helix said:
yeah, it sounds like a plan. i'm just left wondering what the design of the deposited currency should be. i've narrowed it down to two images. let me know which you like the best.
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In those scenarios, something else happened. Their productive capacity was effectively zero. That's a major aspect of the story that is always ignored, because big numbers and wheel barrels full of money are far more sensational.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
That's actually a part of Rashida Tlaib's bill. It calls for two coins to start off. Written with the help of Rohan Grey, a second-generation MMT economist.
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At this point why bother? That sounds more like clownish games than sound economics.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
That's actually a part of Rashida Tlaib's bill. It calls for two coins to start off. Written with the help of Rohan Grey, a second-generation MMT economist.
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At this point why bother? That sounds more like clownish games than sound economics. This makes MMTers sound like two year olds than economics professors. No need to waste chasing after things like Paul Krugman does that makes him look like a loon.
 
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Moderate Right said:
Huge national debts are a problem because if something like this happens, then the world is thrown into economic free fall. Large deficits aren't really a problem as long as the economy is growing. It's NOT growing. It's contracting. MMT doesn't take into account these types of events. They always have a rosy outlook. Nothing can possibly go wrong in the MMT world.
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This isn't even a serious rebuttal. Deficits are a problem when the economy is growing for the very instance we find ourselves in today. We went from a $1 trillion deficit for FY 2020 to something more along the lines of $2.5 trillion (or maybe more). You clearly do not possess even a basic comprehension of macroeconomics, and therefore your opinion on the matter is of very little value.
 
Kushinator said:
In those scenarios, something else happened. Their productive capacity was effectively zero. That's a major aspect of the story that is always ignored, because big numbers and wheel barrels full of money are far more sensational.
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so which one did you like?
 
this one's also pretty good :

46684BC100000578-5088405-image-m-54_1510825995710.jpg

sort of like Lady Liberty.
 
Vadinho said:
The mere fact that you compared us to Zimbabwe should us how much you grasp the issues we are discussing.
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I dunno anymore, the suggesting that we just mint a trillion dollar coin instead of just cancelling the debt makes mmters look equally childish
 
Once again, your answers are completely hollow.


Moderate Right said:
Huge national debts are a problem because if something like this happens, then the world is thrown into economic free fall.
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Yes, when something like this happens, the world economy suffers. But WHAT DOES THE HUGE NATIONAL DEBT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS?

Moderate Right said:
Large deficits aren't really a problem as long as the economy is growing. It's NOT growing. It's contracting. MMT doesn't take into account these types of events. They always have a rosy outlook. Nothing can possibly go wrong in the MMT world.
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False. Once again, you are talking out of your backside.

Why are you even in this thread? Do you really believe that your posts add anything to the discussion?
 
Kushinator said:
This isn't really even a realistic proposal.

A more likely scenario is a gradual trajectory towards negative interest rates, and the sale of a new type of Treasury Security: the zero coupon perpetuity.
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That's the same thing, but with no platinum.

i hope it passes, just so more people might finally try to understand this stuff and quit worrying about paying back debt.
 
bomberfox said:
At this point why bother? That sounds more like clownish games than sound economics. This makes MMTers sound like two year olds than economics professors. No need to waste chasing after things like Paul Krugman does that makes him look like a loon.
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And what would you consider a better option?
 
bomberfox said:
I dunno anymore, the suggesting that we just mint a trillion dollar coin instead of just cancelling the debt makes mmters look equally childish
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Explain why. We're all listening.
 
bomberfox said:
National debt. Thought it was pretty clear given the proposal.
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So you want to cancel the bonds used by the international community for trade? Make them instantly worthless? Bad idea.

The national debt is not a problem. There is no reason to cancel it. People hold treasuries as rock-solid assets. And it doesn't prevent the government from creating and spending more money.

The Coin is simply a different type of Treasury product that can sit on the asset side of the Fed ledger (just like bonds), and it fills up Treasury's account so the government can spend. It precludes the need to issue more bonds, which is only a legal requirement, not an operational one.
 
bomberfox said:
I dunno anymore, the suggesting that we just mint a trillion dollar coin instead of just cancelling the debt makes mmters look equally childish
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Not really, its no different then any other coin with a value set to it by a government. Granted, the coin would have no resale value that would match its stated value but it does prove one point, money can be created at whim and because we insist on double entry accounting, why not make up a coin and say it has X value? The FED bought up all those bad tranches by the banks without knowing a thing about their values, whats the difference? BTW, this has nothing to do with MMT so you can forget that linkage.
 
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