• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The trump tax cuts have given us 4, 5, 6 % growth and paid for themselves

Wish I could figure out what you leftists believe the rich do with their money and why it is so important for the federal gov't to collect more from the rich and zero from the 45% who don't pay any FIT since taxes are so important to you?

It is quite telling that most of the people here who oppose the Trump tax cuts are probably paying more in FIT because of the cap on state and local taxes as deductions from their federal return. Sure never heard much from you people when you were fully deducting your high state and local taxes from your federal returns, taxes that Red State taxpayers didn't have.

So you noticed that Trump's tax cuts include a back door tax increase on already high tax states. Very astute of you. But that's a valid reason to not like these tax cuts. Remember, the federal tax cut is temporary but the deduction is gone for good. So in 5 years when the cut expires, this "tax cut" is going to result in me paying more taxes. The corporations that rich people own still pay less though.

You want to know why liberals want to tax the rich. Well, there are two reasons. The history, and economic theory.

Let's rewind to the depression. That sucked. The government introduced a whole bunch of programs during the depression. This was an early attempt at stimulus spending, but really they were just trying to get people to not die. The government hired people directly and did public works projects. This was spearheaded by Keynes, who said that if you put some money in the pocket of people who really need it, it all goes back out into the economy right away, because they'll spend it on the goods and services that they really need. They'll pay rent and buy groceries, and then the landlord and the grocer spend that money, and the money circulates, stimulating the economy.

You asked what liberals think rich people are doing with their money. Well they don't spend it all. They might put some in a vault. They might invest it overseas. They might snort some extra coke. The corporations used their windfalls to buy back a bunch of stock. Buying back stock is a fancy way of saying buying investors back out. It's basically the market saying, we can't use this money, invest it somewhere else. This doesn't help the economy very much. But it does inflate stock prices. So they spend some of their money making a new bubble. In the extreme case, money can do zero circuits around the economy. The Treasury borrows money to give to a rich person who buys a Treasury bond. You can see how that doesn't really help the economy all that much.
 
LOL, your taxes didn't go up, what you paid in taxes probably did because of you no longer being able to deduct those high California taxes from your federal return. The cost of liberalism isn't free

My taxes went up, his went down. That is a fact. Your reply perfectly explains your posting history here. Facts mean nothing to you, its all about the dogma.
 
So you noticed that Trump's tax cuts include a back door tax increase on already high tax states. Very astute of you. But that's a valid reason to not like these tax cuts. Remember, the federal tax cut is temporary but the deduction is gone for good. So in 5 years when the cut expires, this "tax cut" is going to result in me paying more taxes. The corporations that rich people own still pay less though.

You want to know why liberals want to tax the rich. Well, there are two reasons. The history, and economic theory.

Let's rewind to the depression. That sucked. The government introduced a whole bunch of programs during the depression. This was an early attempt at stimulus spending, but really they were just trying to get people to not die. The government hired people directly and did public works projects. This was spearheaded by Keynes, who said that if you put some money in the pocket of people who really need it, it all goes back out into the economy right away, because they'll spend it on the goods and services that they really need. They'll pay rent and buy groceries, and then the landlord and the grocer spend that money, and the money circulates, stimulating the economy.

You asked what liberals think rich people are doing with their money. Well they don't spend it all. They might put some in a vault. They might invest it overseas. They might snort some extra coke. The corporations used their windfalls to buy back a bunch of stock. Buying back stock is a fancy way of saying buying investors back out. It's basically the market saying, we can't use this money, invest it somewhere else. This doesn't help the economy very much. But it does inflate stock prices. So they spend some of their money making a new bubble. In the extreme case, money can do zero circuits around the economy. The Treasury borrows money to give to a rich person who buys a Treasury bond. You can see how that doesn't really help the economy all that much.

Isn't it about time that high tax states be held accountable for those social programs and why should state and local taxes be deducted fully from federal tax obligations?? You have a problem with your state taxes, MOVE but stop complaining about Red States who don't have the deductions blue states have thus are paying more in Federal tax dollars?

As for what rich people do with their money? you believe you get rich by putting money in a vault? Where did you get your education? As for investing over seas any idea what the tax cuts did to overseas cash??? Suggest you get better informed and stop letting the left make a fool out of you promoting class envy, jealousy.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

economics
[h=1]U.S. Companies' Repatriated Cash Hits $1 Trillion Under Tax Law[/h]
By Reade Pickert
December 19, 2019, 7:30 AM CST
 
My taxes went up, his went down. That is a fact. Your reply perfectly explains your posting history here. Facts mean nothing to you, its all about the dogma.

No, what you paid may have gone up, your tax rates dropped. You don't seem to understand at all deductions and what taxes you pay and their purpose. That is typical liberal ignorance
 
Wish I could figure out what you leftists believe the rich do with their money and why it is so important for the federal gov't to collect more from the rich and zero from the 45% who don't pay any FIT since taxes are so important to you?

It is quite telling that most of the people here who oppose the Trump tax cuts are probably paying more in FIT because of the cap on state and local taxes as deductions from their federal return. Sure never heard much from you people when you were fully deducting your high state and local taxes from your federal returns, taxes that Red State taxpayers didn't have.

For decades the federal tax code treated all states equally in terms of deductions for state and local taxes. Then Trump and his band of dogmatists decide to punish blue states and viola, our taxes goes up, red state taxes and billionaire taxes go down, estate taxes are virtually eliminated and barking madmen try to sell it all as fairness. OK, is it fair for a single person to pay higher taxes then a family with 5 kids? Nope. Is it fair for an LLC or corporation to have unlimited carryover deductions for losses when a family that loses money on their house does not get a single penny in deductions? Nope. How can Trump have zero tax liability on incomes approaching 50 million a year when my kid that makes 40 grand still has to pay up? Give me a break.
 
For decades the federal tax code treated all states equally in terms of deductions for state and local taxes. Then Trump and his band of dogmatists decide to punish blue states and viola, our taxes goes up, red state taxes and billionaire taxes go down, estate taxes are virtually eliminated and barking madmen try to sell it all as fairness. OK, is it fair for a single person to pay higher taxes then a family with 5 kids? Nope. Is it fair for an LLC or corporation to have unlimited carryover deductions for losses when a family that loses money on their house does not get a single penny in deductions? Nope. How can Trump have zero tax liability on incomes approaching 50 million a year when my kid that makes 40 grand still has to pay up? Give me a break.

Treated all states equally? How does your high state and local taxes being deducted from your federal return mean equal treatment to other states that don't have high state and local taxes. Here is your problem, liberalism isn't free and now you are paying for it and want to blame Trump, typical radical liberalism

Here's Why Some People Are Now Paying More Under Trump's Tax 'Cut' - VICE

What are some specific factors that could cause these individuals to experience this increase?
There are a couple of major provisions that will have mattered. Most obviously, the SALT deduction—the amount of your state and local taxes that you can deduct from your federal income taxes—is now capped at $10,000. So, for people who pay a lot of state and local taxes, that is going to cost them money. It was obviously an issue in certain electoral districts, particularly purple districts in blue states, places like California and New Jersey, New York. If you're a high earner in those states, you make enough money that you pay a lot in taxes at the state level and now you also make enough money that itemizing your federal return makes sense. So, if you're in that category, you may have a lost out on the TCJA.
 
For decades the federal tax code treated all states equally in terms of deductions for state and local taxes. Then Trump and his band of dogmatists decide to punish blue states and viola, our taxes goes up, red state taxes and billionaire taxes go down, estate taxes are virtually eliminated and barking madmen try to sell it all as fairness. OK, is it fair for a single person to pay higher taxes then a family with 5 kids? Nope. Is it fair for an LLC or corporation to have unlimited carryover deductions for losses when a family that loses money on their house does not get a single penny in deductions? Nope. How can Trump have zero tax liability on incomes approaching 50 million a year when my kid that makes 40 grand still has to pay up? Give me a break.
You are wasting your time talking to him a lot of us over the years have done the same has you are doing and he still doesn't get it
He keeps saying people should be able to keep more of what they earn buy on the other hand he complains that there are 42% of the people whodon't make enough to live on don't pay any
what he should be saying is the upper class people and large corp should be able to keep more o what they " earn " and the people on the lower end should all be paying something in FIT no matter if they are working two jobs at min. wage and don't make enough to live on
Good luck with him
Have a nice day
 
Isn't it about time that high tax states be held accountable for those social programs and why should state and local taxes be deducted fully from federal tax obligations?? You have a problem with your state taxes, MOVE but stop complaining about Red States who don't have the deductions blue states have thus are paying more in Federal tax dollars?

As for what rich people do with their money? you believe you get rich by putting money in a vault? Where did you get your education? As for investing over seas any idea what the tax cuts did to overseas cash??? Suggest you get better informed and stop letting the left make a fool out of you promoting class envy, jealousy.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

This is getting really frustrating. Rich, urban, liberal states are already subsidizing poor, rural, conservative states. Due to the progressive taxation that we demand, more money comes out of our rich pockets every year. We spend it to pay for some of the most successful, stable, popular, low fraud government programs in the country. Medicare and Medicaid, SNAP, etc. Our "welfare state" spending that goes disproportionately to the poor, rural, conservative people who are constantly complaining about getting it and preaching dire consequences for being so short sited as to help them see a doctor or prevent them from starving.

And now you're back to gouge us some more, while still complaining all the while.
 
This is getting really frustrating. Rich, urban, liberal states are already subsidizing poor, rural, conservative states. Due to the progressive taxation that we demand, more money comes out of our rich pockets every year. We spend it to pay for some of the most successful, stable, popular, low fraud government programs in the country. Medicare and Medicaid, SNAP, etc. Our "welfare state" spending that goes disproportionately to the poor, rural, conservative people who are constantly complaining about getting it and preaching dire consequences for being so short sited as to help them see a doctor or prevent them from starving.

And now you're back to gouge us some more, while still complaining all the while.

That is a lie but still you keep promoting that left wing bs. This is getting frustrating dealing with ignorant liberals who have no understanding of what a federal mandate is and what taxes you pay or their purpose. Learn the difference and stop making a fool of yourself. FIT is collected on income, Revenue going to the states pays for federal expenses and federal mandates that go to both republican and democrats in states.
 
This is getting really frustrating. Rich, urban, liberal states are already subsidizing poor, rural, conservative states. Due to the progressive taxation that we demand, more money comes out of our rich pockets every year. We spend it to pay for some of the most successful, stable, popular, low fraud government programs in the country. Medicare and Medicaid, SNAP, etc. Our "welfare state" spending that goes disproportionately to the poor, rural, conservative people who are constantly complaining about getting it and preaching dire consequences for being so short sited as to help them see a doctor or prevent them from starving.

And now you're back to gouge us some more, while still complaining all the while.
he doesn't get it
with or with out the property tax deduction the higher taxes " Blue " states do not get back near what they send in and the lower taxed " Red " states get a lot more back then they send in
IF the higher taxed states would get back any thing back near what they sent in and the red states got back something closed to what they send in the lower taxed states would have to raise their state taxes to cover the money they aren't getting from the FED
as I said before I think it should go back to the states on a per person percentage so every state would get back an equal amount based on their pop.
and if that ever happens the lower taxed states would have to raise their state taxes to cover the programs they have
and if they don't it will be like back in the 50's when a lot of people from those states went to the higher taxed states to get those programs
I think if this happens again the higher taxed states should require that these people live in their state at least two years before they could get those programs ( like welfare )
Good luck with him
Have a nice day
 
he doesn't get it
with or with out the property tax deduction the higher taxes " Blue " states do not get back near what they send in and the lower taxed " Red " states get a lot more back then they send in
IF the higher taxed states would get back any thing back near what they sent in and the red states got back something closed to what they send in the lower taxed states would have to raise their state taxes to cover the money they aren't getting from the FED
as I said before I think it should go back to the states on a per person percentage so every state would get back an equal amount based on their pop.
and if that ever happens the lower taxed states would have to raise their state taxes to cover the programs they have
and if they don't it will be like back in the 50's when a lot of people from those states went to the higher taxed states to get those programs
I think if this happens again the higher taxed states should require that these people live in their state at least two years before they could get those programs ( like welfare )
Good luck with him
Have a nice day

No, you don't get it, what the states get back from the federal gov't have absolutely nothing to do with the federal income taxes paid. Please stop making a fool of yourself, this is embarrassing.
 
LOL, your taxes didn't go up, what you paid in taxes probably did because of you no longer being able to deduct those high California taxes from your federal return. The cost of liberalism isn't free

Yep, some people's really went down(wink)




Approximately 76.4 million or 44.4% of Americans won’t pay any federal income tax in 2018, up from 72.6 million people or 43.2% in 2016 before President Trump’s Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, according to estimates from the Tax Policy Center,


More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax - MarketWatch

Keep the faith
 
Yep, some people's really went down(wink)







More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax - MarketWatch

Keep the faith

Here is what you don't seem to understand, how does over 2 trillion dollars in revenue to fund discretionary spending of over 1.4 trillion cause trillion dollar deficits? The problem isn't revenue, the problem is waste, fraud, and abuse by gov't bureaucrats that you continue to want to support. Allowing the American people to keep more of what they earn drives liberals crazy as it doesn't feed the beast they support

US Federal Budget Breakdown
 
This is getting really frustrating. Rich, urban, liberal states are already subsidizing poor, rural, conservative states. Due to the progressive taxation that we demand, more money comes out of our rich pockets every year. We spend it to pay for some of the most successful, stable, popular, low fraud government programs in the country. Medicare and Medicaid, SNAP, etc. Our "welfare state" spending that goes disproportionately to the poor, rural, conservative people who are constantly complaining about getting it and preaching dire consequences for being so short sited as to help them see a doctor or prevent them from starving.

And now you're back to gouge us some more, while still complaining all the while.

Because it was never really about taxes for them, it was about who benefited from tax policy. If a white person benefits, they love it. If a black or brown person benefits, they hate it. This goes all the way back to passing Social Security. In order to get the Southern votes, FDR exempted poor workers (blacks) from participating in SS. It wasn't until the 50s that SS included them. Why? Because them thar white crackers did not want any money going to them thar coloreds. Fast forward to the Great Society and the same thing happened again and again. Today its about Mexicans, tomorrow it could be about Democrats or Green party folks. Its always the same crap.
 
Trump promised tax hikes on the rich.

Sept 2015: Trump: My tax plan is 'going to cost me a fortune'

The billionaire businessman promises to close loopholes on the rich, lower overall rates, and free half of Americans from income tax.
"It’s going to cost me a fortune, which is actually true," the Republican presidential front-runner candidate told reporters, as he unveiled a bold — and fairly detailed — tax plan, under which half of Americans would pay no federal income tax and the rich would face closed loopholes and slashed deductions.​

In the summer of 2017, just months before the big tax cut for the rich, he was still lying about it.
 
Pew Research Center estimates that since 1970, the share of the nation’s income earned by families in the middle class has fallen from almost two-thirds to around 40 percent.

ShareofIncome.jpg

The richest 1 percent of Americans now own 56 percent of all shares of stock. The richest 10 percent own 90 percent of all shares of stock. The bottom half of America owns less than 1 percent. Think about that when Trump crows about the stock market.
 
Pew Research Center estimates that since 1970, the share of the nation’s income earned by families in the middle class has fallen from almost two-thirds to around 40 percent.

View attachment 67273859

The richest 1 percent of Americans now own 56 percent of all shares of stock. The richest 10 percent own 90 percent of all shares of stock. The bottom half of America owns less than 1 percent. Think about that when Trump crows about the stock market.

Class envy and jealousy are all you have, no justification for wealth redistribution which is what the radical left wants out of pure jealousy.
 
That is a lie but still you keep promoting that left wing bs. This is getting frustrating dealing with ignorant liberals who have no understanding of what a federal mandate is and what taxes you pay or their purpose. Learn the difference and stop making a fool of yourself. FIT is collected on income, Revenue going to the states pays for federal expenses and federal mandates that go to both republican and democrats in states.

And I am sick of being called a liar by ignoramuses. I am the only one who's brought any facts to this discussion, and they support my position.

Is this what they teach you in troll school? When the fact are against you, just keep on lying while accusing everyone else of lying. Never actually discuss the facts. That is exactly what you are doing. It's textbook troll behavior. Very effective, but it must make you feel bad about yourself. Doesn't it?
 
Last edited:
And I am sick of being called a liar by ignoramuses. I am the only one who's brought any facts to this discussion, and they support my position.

Is this what they teach you in troll school? When the fact are against you, just keep on lying while accusing everyone else of lying. Never actually discuss the facts. That is exactly what you are doing. It's textbook troll behavior. Very effective, but it must make you feel bad about yourself. Doesn't it?


A liar is someone who passes off a personal opinion in an attempt to mislead which is what you do. Nothing I have posted is a lie as it is backed by the official data. Waiting for you to tell us what Trump has done that has hurt this country? Guess you aren't in the 56% that approve of the job he is doing on the economy, I AM!!

Guess you have a problem with the definition of a fact because I see opinions which aren't facts backed by data, Support your positions which you never do
 
Oh no, they didn't. It's almost like giving tax cuts to rich people doesn't help the economy very much.

I pay less taxes. Economy is better. Govt has plenty of revenue. WIN WIN WIN. Im not seeing any downside.
 
Why? Everyone who owns stock is seeing major value increases, whether you own 1% or 90%.

And since 1970 the share of the nations income held by families in the middle class has risen from 3.2 trillion to 8.6 trillion. Everyone is winning.
NO not everybody is winning
the cost of living has gone up way more since 1970 then wages have
how much has the cost of living gone up since 1970 - Google Search
as you can see avg. people have not gotten wage increases large enough to keep up with inflation
The only people who are making out are the upper middle class and above people that have money enough to live on and can afford to take money and invest it
the lower wage earners are not making out but going backwards
and there are a lot more people that have to get gov. help now a days then years ago
and if it wasn't for that gov. help they might be out on the streets with out a roof over their heads or food to eat
NO " everyone " is not winning
Have a nice day
 
I pay less taxes. Economy is better. Govt has plenty of revenue. WIN WIN WIN. Im not seeing any downside.

Trump ran for president in 2015 and 2016, telling the nation that the economy was horrible and he'd make it vastly better.

But annual job growth totals from both 2015 and 2016 were better than any year of the Republican's tenure, at least so far.

Trump has now been in office for three full years (36 months), and during that time, the economy has created 6.56 million jobs. In the final full three years of Obama's presidency, the economy created 8.08 million jobs.

Trump inherited a strong economy from Obama, and hasn't screwed it up too much. He's increased the deficit a lot. That's about all you can say.

JobGrowthSimple.jpg

Deficits.jpg
 
Last edited:
Pivot from rich people to small business owners. Very clever. But you know that the tax cuts mostly went to rich people and huge corporations.

Well, it's what Kellyanne taught them to say.
 
Back
Top Bottom