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Thread: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

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    Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    During Obama's presidency, the GOP shut down the government several times. Everyone agrees that this harmed the economy. But Republicans at the time argued that the issues they were being stubborn on were so important for the long term health of the economy that it justified the short term damage.

    What were these issues? They wanted to repeal and replace Obamacare, they wanted to reduce the deficit. And they wanted to extend Bush's tax cuts for rich people.

    What can we learn from their actions upon taking power in 2017 about the sincerity of their arguments? Well, they didn't repeal and replace Obamacare. They didn't reduce the deficit. They did give another huge stinking tax cut to rich people.

    I conclude from this that the GOP doesn't really care about deficits and Obamacare. They harmed the economy for disingenuous reasons.

    Why did they do it? Maybe they think tax cuts for rich people are so good for the economy in the long term that it's worth hurting the economy in the short term to get them.

    But I posit another explanation. Instead of good but stupid, maybe they're evil but smart. McConnell let the truth slip when he said his highest priority was to deny obama a second term. Not create jobs, not help the economy. Hurt obama.

    The tax cuts for the rich increased the deficit. Repeated shutdowns slowed the recovery. The GOP caused these things, and then complained that "Obama's deficit" was to big and "obama's recovery" was too slow.
    Last edited by Digger; 02-09-20 at 04:23 PM.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Politicians are hypocrites.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Digger View Post
    During Obama's presidency, the GOP shut down the government several times. Everyone agrees that this harmed the economy. But Republicans at the time argued that the issues they were being stubborn on were so important for the long term health of the economy that it justified the short term damage.

    What were these issues? They wanted to repeal and replace Obamacare, they wanted to reduce the deficit. And they wanted to extend Bush's tax cuts for rich people.

    What can we learn from their actions upon taking power in 2017 about the sincerity of their arguments? Well, they didn't repeal and replace Obamacare. They didn't reduce the deficit. They did give another huge stinking tax cut to rich people.

    I conclude from this that the GOP doesn't really care about deficits and Obamacare. They harmed the economy for disingenuous reasons.

    Why did they do it? Maybe they think tax cuts for rich people are so good for the economy in the long term that it's worth hurting the economy in the short term to get them.

    But I posit another explanation. Instead of good but stupid, maybe they're evil but smart. McConnell let the truth slip when he said his highest priority was to deny obama a second term. Not create jobs, not help the economy. Hurt obama.

    The tax cuts for the rich increased the deficit. Repeated shutdowns slowed the recovery. The GOP caused these things, and then complained that "Obama's deficit" was to big and "obama's recovery" was too slow.
    Someone somewhere once said, "Elections have consequences". Obama seemed to forget that in his second term after Republicans took over one thousand seats from Democrats, gaining both the House and the Senate and yet the left became the resistance against what voters wanted. And yet Obama seemed to forget that elections have consequences and tried his best to thwart what Americans wanted during his second term. Even today voters have voted in a Republican president and a Republican Senate, and yet Democrats have formed the resistance, while only controlling 1/3 of the government. I'll give you Republican obstruction from 2009-2014 but ever since January 2015, it has been constant Democratic obstruction, which has lasted five years now.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Someone somewhere once said, "Elections have consequences". Obama seemed to forget that in his second term after Republicans took over one thousand seats from Democrats, gaining both the House and the Senate and yet the left became the resistance against what voters wanted. And yet Obama seemed to forget that elections have consequences and tried his best to thwart what Americans wanted during his second term. Even today voters have voted in a Republican president and a Republican Senate, and yet Democrats have formed the resistance, while only controlling 1/3 of the government. I'll give you Republican obstruction from 2009-2014 but ever since January 2015, it has been constant Democratic obstruction, which has lasted five years now.
    Now, this is whataboutism! Only one sentence fragment addresses my point and that is only to agree with it. The rest of your post is just distracting from the issue.

    So you've given me Republican obstruction from 2009 - 2014. Do you have any response to the fact that once they had a chance to govern from 2017-2019, they didn't do the things that they claimed were so important as to require shutting down the government to demand? Repealing and replacing Obamacare, and reducing the deficit. They never did it.
    Last edited by Digger; 02-10-20 at 10:20 AM.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Digger View Post
    Now, this is whataboutism! Only one sentence fragment addresses my point and that is only to agree with it. The rest of your post is just distracting from the issue.

    So you've given me Republican obstruction from 2009 - 2014. Do you have any response to the fact that once they had a chance to govern from 2017-2019, they didn't do the things that they claimed were so important as to require shutting down the government to demand? Repealing and replacing Obamacare, and reducing the deficit. They never did it.
    LOL. So you make a whataboutism post and then when I respond you claim that I am guilty of whataboutism.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    LOL. So you make a whataboutism post and then when I respond you claim that I am guilty of whataboutism.
    What are you talking about? I made the OP. I set the subject. You tried to change it.

    Please make your next post about the subject of this thread.

    We're talking about the disconnect between the GOPs stated reasons for repeatedly shutting down the government and their actions when they had a chance to govern.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Digger View Post
    What are you talking about? I made the OP. I set the subject. You tried to change it.

    Please make your next post about the subject of this thread.

    We're talking about the disconnect between the GOPs stated reasons for repeatedly shutting down the government and their actions when they had a chance to govern.
    Your OP itself was a whataboutism!

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    The fact that in ten years the GOP never came up with a “replace” was the first clue that the “repeal-and-replace” slogan wasn’t very serious.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Your OP itself was a whataboutism!
    Oi vey. Sigh. OK, here we go.

    Whataboutism - Wikipedia

    --------
    Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.

    it is a word that was coined to describe the frequent use of a rhetorical diversion by Soviet apologists and dictators, who would counter charges of their oppression, "massacres, gulags, and forced deportations" by invoking American slavery, racism, lynchings, etc.[10] It has been adopted by other politicians and countries.
    --------

    My OP was not a whataboutism, because I was not attempting to draw attention away from someone attempting to discuss something else. So how about your next post directly addresses my argument?

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Digger View Post
    During Obama's presidency, the GOP shut down the government several times. Everyone agrees that this harmed the economy. But Republicans at the time argued that the issues they were being stubborn on were so important for the long term health of the economy that it justified the short term damage.

    What were these issues? They wanted to repeal and replace Obamacare, they wanted to reduce the deficit. And they wanted to extend Bush's tax cuts for rich people.

    What can we learn from their actions upon taking power in 2017 about the sincerity of their arguments? Well, they didn't repeal and replace Obamacare. They didn't reduce the deficit. They did give another huge stinking tax cut to rich people.

    I conclude from this that the GOP doesn't really care about deficits and Obamacare. They harmed the economy for disingenuous reasons.

    Why did they do it? Maybe they think tax cuts for rich people are so good for the economy in the long term that it's worth hurting the economy in the short term to get them.

    But I posit another explanation. Instead of good but stupid, maybe they're evil but smart. McConnell let the truth slip when he said his highest priority was to deny obama a second term. Not create jobs, not help the economy. Hurt obama.

    The tax cuts for the rich increased the deficit. Repeated shutdowns slowed the recovery. The GOP caused these things, and then complained that "Obama's deficit" was to big and "obama's recovery" was too slow.
    "Everyone agrees that it hurt the economy"... uh, no they don't. That was the big scare tactic of the Democrats trying to fear monger their way into getting what they want, but it didn't actually happen. Everyone got paid, the majority of the government wasn't even sent home, and life went on.

    In fact, it might have even helped the economy... I know here in the DC metro area it was far easier for private commuters to get to work, and for private trucks to get where they were going.

    The same held true last year:

    The government shutdown was expected to hurt the economy. It didnít. - The Boston Globe
    "Discipline is doing what you hate to do like you love to do it." - Mike Tyson

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