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Thread: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Digger View Post
    Yes, Obama had an undivided government during the first two years. He could get whatever legislation he could get all 60 Democratic Senators to vote for. The GOP was filibustering everything they could, so the Democrats needed every single vote in the Senate every single time. And with Kennedy dying and recesses and some other shenanigans it turned out that they only had like 50 days of legislating time. I figured it all out one time, but I don't remember the details anymore.

    But anyway, they did what they could with their time. And Obama saved the auto industry and the banking industry, which for some reason Republicans complained about at the time. It was a government takeover! And his stimulus got the economy out of free fall. Oh, and he got tens of millions of Americans health insurance without raising the deficit.

    But you're right, after the GOP took back the House and then the Senate, nothing much changed for the next 6 years. They kept refusing to do more stimulus spending while complaining that the economy was sluggish, and shutting the government down over and over to force austerity measures during a sluggish recovery. Thanks Republicans!
    Obama is out of power and his record is there for all to see but you are blinded by an ideology that ignores the actual record which the voters rejected. Obama lost the House in 10-12-14-16 and the Senate in 14-16. He generated the worst recovery from a recession in modern history and yet you keep trying to prop up the failures.

    You will have a chance to return to Obama era economics and national security in November. Want to wager how that is going to turn out? Only radicals are here instead of out working like the majority of Americans. Guess you aren't in the 56% that support the job Trump is doing helping put food on the table, clothes on the backs, and a roof over head. Are you better off than 3 years ago?? Most are. Why can't you address actual issues and tell us all which of the following really bothers you and will cause you to vote for a Democrat?

    RealClearPolitics - Election Other - President Trump Job Approval - Economy

    It will always be the economy that drives the American people to the polls and these numbers aren't very good for the left as the American people won't risk returning to Obamanomics

    Unemployment Rate 4.7% January 2017 vs. 3.6% today

    Employed 152.2 million January 2017 to 157.9 million today so 6 million job growth from 2008 to 2017(146 million to 152 million) is celebrated but 6.7 million growth I the last two years isn't!! LOL

    U-6 in January 2017 9.3% vs 6.9% today? Wow!! 2.4% better U-6 obviously meaningless to you

    Part time for economic reasons, 5.7 million January 2017 vs. 4.2 million today? Looks to me that incredible job growth you claim was boosted by part time jobs

    African American unemployment 8.0% vs. 6.0% today? That explains the surge in support from African Americans for Trump

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Digger View Post
    Yes, Obama had an undivided government during the first two years. He could get whatever legislation he could get all 60 Democratic Senators to vote for. The GOP was filibustering everything they could, so the Democrats needed every single vote in the Senate every single time. And with Kennedy dying and recesses and some other shenanigans it turned out that they only had like 50 days of legislating time. I figured it all out one time, but I don't remember the details anymore.
    So, you're arguing that the Dems weren't proposing positions that were palatable to their entire caucus? And they couldn't even convince ONE Republican to go along? Boo-friggin'-hoo!
    Quote Originally Posted by Digger
    But anyway, they did what they could with their time. And Obama saved the auto industry and the banking industry, which for some reason Republicans complained about at the time. It was a government takeover! And his stimulus got the economy out of free fall. Oh, and he got tens of millions of Americans health insurance without raising the deficit.
    LOL, he saved neither. Each was more than capable of rebounding along with the economy
    Quote Originally Posted by Digger
    But you're right, after the GOP took back the House and then the Senate, nothing much changed for the next 6 years. They kept refusing to do more stimulus spending while complaining that the economy was sluggish, and shutting the government down over and over to force austerity measures during a sluggish recovery. Thanks Republicans!
    Nothing much happened except the economy continued to struggle back as well as it could dragging the Obamanomics boat anchor behind. Deficits started declining and became a thing of the past as the GOP solidified its hold on the House.
    Obama: High unemployment and slow growth are the new normal
    Trump: No they're not

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    "Everyone agrees that it hurt the economy"... uh, no they don't. That was the big scare tactic of the Democrats trying to fear monger their way into getting what they want, but it didn't actually happen. Everyone got paid, the majority of the government wasn't even sent home, and life went on.

    In fact, it might have even helped the economy... I know here in the DC metro area it was far easier for private commuters to get to work, and for private trucks to get where they were going.

    The same held true last year:

    The government shutdown was expected to hurt the economy. It didn’t. - The Boston Globe

    When the GOP shut down the government, I instantly lost 10% of the month's profits in the first 72 hours. I had to scale back my orders; which meant my vendors took a hit from the loss of business. I continued to lose profit the entire time. I had to scale back my labor hours; I had employees who only worked three shifts during the whole shutdown when they would normally work 5 shifts a week. We also run on a profit-share bonus...that meant the annual bonus check for my employees was less...through no fault of their own. The business was a beer and wine store with a bar. Let that sink in...I had trouble selling booze. My fellow stores and bars also faced similar hardships.

    That shutdown hurt my vendors.

    That shutdown hurt my business.

    That shutdown hurt me.

    Worse of all, that shutdown hurt my employees.

    Just to get at Obama....

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Republicans took over one thousand seats from Democrats, gaining both the House and the Senate and yet the left became the resistance against what voters wanted. And yet Obama seemed to forget that elections have consequences and tried his best to thwart what Americans wanted during his second term.
    What the voters want is not Republicans or their ideals. Both in the Obama years and now the Republicans represented fewer voters than the Democrats but picked up more seats due to gerrymandering, voter suppression and other electioneering tricks. 2018 gave a taste of what voters really want; this year regardless of who 'wins' the electoral college in the election, when you look at the turnout and count the votes, you'll see again what the voters really want.
    “Our president will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate. He's weak and he's ineffective. So the only way he figures that he's going to get reelected, and as sure as you're sitting there, is to start a war with Iran.” - Donald J. Trump

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Digger View Post
    I conclude from this that the GOP doesn't really care about deficits and Obamacare. They harmed the economy for disingenuous reasons.
    [snip]
    The GOP caused these things, and then complained that "Obama's deficit" was to big and "obama's recovery" was too slow.
    One quibble. While the GOP definitely doesn't give a damn about deficits, they do care about stripping millions of health insurance. They came within one vote of doing so.

    But yes, the GOP is more than willing to extend unemployment and all the damage that implies for as long as there's a Democrat in the White House. But when there's a Republican, let the red ink flow!

    As Paul Krugman writes:
    Then, in 2010, Republicans took control of the House and were in a position to force Obama into years of spending cuts that exerted a significant drag on economic growth. This drag wasn’t enough to prevent a sustained economic recovery, but the recovery could and should have been much faster. There was no economic reason we shouldn’t have returned to full employment by, say, 2013; instead, largely thanks to fiscal austerity, the average unemployment rate that year was still above 7 percent.

    Think of the effects of unemployment: Suicides, divorces, broken families. All that was no problem for Republicans; they had a president to defeat.
    Trump: "[W]hen you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Here's some reporting on the Republican Party's sabotague of the economy under Obama:

    Tim Alberta’s new book, American Carnage, confirms and deepens previous reports that show just how cynically Republicans viewed the economic crisis of 2008. When Congress was debating a taxpayer-funded bailout in September 2008, Paul Ryan lectured his GOP colleagues that they needed to think of the country: “We’re Americans,” he said. “And if we don’t do something, this economy is going to crash.” However, Alberta notes, “[i]n truth, Ryan feared not just the crash itself” but the prospect such a crash would lead to a Republican wipeout at the polls; he warned that a crash would lead to “FDR on steroids.”

    After Obama took office, the entire Republican legislative calculus revolved around the premise that Republicans were engaged in zero-sum competition — anything that helped Obama pass a stimulus bill hurt their party. When Obama expressed openness to their stimulus ideas in a private meeting, Alberta reports, they reacted with panic. “If he governs like that, we’re all ****ed,” Eric Cantor’s communications director, Brad Dayspring, told his boss.

    Alberta reports that Republicans declined to address infrastructure spending in their counterproposal to Obama precisely because they believed House Republicans would support it. “Boehner and Cantor both knew that the one thing that could buy off their members was big spending on roads and bridges,” Alberta reports. They declined to include any such spending in their offer, because the goal was not to improve the economic-rescue bill but to block it.

    And here: How Republicans Sabotaged the Recovery – Foreign Policy
    Trump: "[W]hen you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by uptower View Post
    What the voters want is not Republicans or their ideals. Both in the Obama years and now the Republicans represented fewer voters than the Democrats but picked up more seats due to gerrymandering, voter suppression and other electioneering tricks. 2018 gave a taste of what voters really want; this year regardless of who 'wins' the electoral college in the election, when you look at the turnout and count the votes, you'll see again what the voters really want.
    What the voters want is not Democrat's or their ideals. That's why Republicans took over over a thousand seats from Democrats and it had very little to do with gerrymandering.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    What the voters want is not Democrat's or their ideals. That's why Republicans took over over a thousand seats from Democrats and it had very little to do with gerrymandering.
    It has something to do with gerrymandering. Also voter suppression. Also lying.

    About the lying: polls show that even Republicans support tax increases on the wealthy. So Republicans have to lie about it. And lying is right in Trump's wheelhouse. Trump promised tax hikes during his campaign:
    In August 2015, then-candidate Trump told Bloomberg: “I do very well. I don't mind paying a little more in taxes. The middle class is getting clobbered in this country." A month later, he unveiled his tax plan in Trump Tower and declared, "It’s going to cost me a fortune, which is actually true."
    No, it was a lie. Every iteration of Trump’s tax plan, from his first campaign outline to the lightly detailed blueprint his White House team released in the spring of 2017, has been scored by independent analysts as a huge tax cut for the very rich.

    In the summer of 2017, before the big tax cut for the rich, Trump was still lying about it:
    In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, he declared “the truth is the people I care most about are the middle-income people in this country who have gotten screwed.” He then proceeded to open the door to higher taxes on top earners, by name-dropping his pal Robert Kraft, the owner of the New England Patriots. From the Journal (emphasis mine):

    And if there’s upward revision it’s going to be on high-income people. You know, I was with Bob Kraft the other night. He came to have dinner with me. He’s a friend of mine. And as he left, he said, Donald, don’t worry about the rich people. Tax the rich people. You got to take care of the people in the country. It was a very interesting statement. I feel the same way. ...

    We want — look, the job producers we’re going to take great care of, but we have to take care of middle-income people in this country. They built the country, they started this whole beautiful thing that we have, and we have to take care of them. And people have not taken care of them, and we’re going to. And I mean, I have wealthy friends that say to me I don’t mind paying more tax. And I’ll tell you what I sort of don’t like, is when they — you know, you’ll do your charts in The Wall Street Journal and they’ll be brilliantly done, very nice, and they’ll show that a rich guy who made, you know, $25 million last year is going to pay less than he was. In a certain way, I don’t like that. I’d rather take that difference and put it into the middle-income and put it into corporate.
    Trump: "[W]hen you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Quote Originally Posted by jpn View Post
    It has something to do with gerrymandering. Also voter suppression. Also lying.

    About the lying: polls show that even Republicans support tax increases on the wealthy. So Republicans have to lie about it. And lying is right in Trump's wheelhouse. Trump promised tax hikes during his campaign:
    In August 2015, then-candidate Trump told Bloomberg: “I do very well. I don't mind paying a little more in taxes. The middle class is getting clobbered in this country." A month later, he unveiled his tax plan in Trump Tower and declared, "It’s going to cost me a fortune, which is actually true."
    No, it was a lie. Every iteration of Trump’s tax plan, from his first campaign outline to the lightly detailed blueprint his White House team released in the spring of 2017, has been scored by independent analysts as a huge tax cut for the very rich.

    In the summer of 2017, before the big tax cut for the rich, Trump was still lying about it:
    In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, he declared “the truth is the people I care most about are the middle-income people in this country who have gotten screwed.” He then proceeded to open the door to higher taxes on top earners, by name-dropping his pal Robert Kraft, the owner of the New England Patriots. From the Journal (emphasis mine):

    And if there’s upward revision it’s going to be on high-income people. You know, I was with Bob Kraft the other night. He came to have dinner with me. He’s a friend of mine. And as he left, he said, Donald, don’t worry about the rich people. Tax the rich people. You got to take care of the people in the country. It was a very interesting statement. I feel the same way. ...

    We want — look, the job producers we’re going to take great care of, but we have to take care of middle-income people in this country. They built the country, they started this whole beautiful thing that we have, and we have to take care of them. And people have not taken care of them, and we’re going to. And I mean, I have wealthy friends that say to me I don’t mind paying more tax. And I’ll tell you what I sort of don’t like, is when they — you know, you’ll do your charts in The Wall Street Journal and they’ll be brilliantly done, very nice, and they’ll show that a rich guy who made, you know, $25 million last year is going to pay less than he was. In a certain way, I don’t like that. I’d rather take that difference and put it into the middle-income and put it into corporate.
    Gerrymandering is quite inconsequential, just like illegals voting is quite inconsequential, just like Russians influencing our elections is quite inconsequential. Dems won in the House in 2018. Republicans cleaned up in many races over the last 10 years, both at a national level and the state level, with many of those races not even subject to gerrymandering. You can't tell me that Republicans won everywhere that can't be gerrymandered but only won in elections that were able to be gerrymandered by gerrymandering. Hell, you can't even gerrymander anything unless you won in the first place so, if you won in the first place you can't prove that you wouldn't have won in the future but for gerrymandering. Gerrymandering is nothing but an excuse by the left for losing.

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    Re: Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

    Where is the tea party now who complained about deficits back in the Obama era? I'm tired of the hypocrites on both sides.

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