Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era

bluesmoke said:

There was no economic reason paramount of Fed standard to lower the funds rate. The only reason was the Trump twitter. Or, you tell me what the economic reason that was not a step out of Fed guideline boundaries.

Click to expand...

You're off topic. Read more carefully.

ITT Conservative claims not to understand why shutting down the small business administration raises interest rates for small businesses and hurts the economy.

This is not a good look for you, dude.

Conservative said:

The charge was made and the OP talks about the GOP being obstructionists with Obama! Neither Congress nor the president controls interest rates that is reality

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I agree in terms of history. These last two downward adjustments were a break with that history. You didn't respond with what the economic reason was within Fed guideline for the reduction in the Fed fund rate. Your usual evasive response. An incongruent reply.

bluesmoke said:

I agree in terms of history. These last two downward adjustments were a break with that history. You didn't respond with what the economic reason was within Fed guideline for the reduction in the Fed fund rate. Your usual evasive response. An incongruent reply.

Click to expand...

The thread topic is GOP obstruction to Obama and as stated the GOP had nothing to do with interest rate hikes nor the authority to do so. You want to discuss the reasons for the hikes start another thread. This is just typical of what we get from people like you, charges against the Republicans with nothing to support those charges. Liberalism has created people like you who cannot accept the basic fact that most of the problems in this country today were created by Democrats not Republicans

Digger said:

You're off topic. Read more carefully.

Click to expand...

You'll have to be more specific. What did I post that was off-topic and why? Please clarify.

bluesmoke said:

You'll have to be more specific. What did I post that was off-topic and why? Please clarify.

Click to expand...

Yes, the fed sets interest rates. But this thread isn't about the fed. This thread is about the government shutdowns harming the economy. The small business administration gives loans with low interest rates to small businesses. Shutting it down means those businesses have to go to the general market to get loans at higher interest rates. It has nothing to do with the fed.

Conservative was pointing out that the fed sets interest rates, and you were responding to that. You're both pulling the thread off topic.

Digger said:

Yes, the fed sets interest rates. But this thread isn't about the fed. This thread is about the government shutdowns harming the economy. The small business administration gives loans with low interest rates to small businesses. Shutting it down means those businesses have to go to the general market to get loans at higher interest rates. It has nothing to do with the fed.

Conservative was pointing out that the fed sets interest rates, and you were responding to that. You're both pulling the thread off topic.

Click to expand...

The topic was "Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era" not "government shutdowns harming the economy" or anything else you posted. The body of the OP went elsewhere than strictly the topic. It added more. To that, I added more.

In your post, you mentioned interest rates 2 times as being consistent with the topic. The Fed is nothing but about interest rates. Trump, IMO, obstructed the Feds duty of managing fund int rate which affects the economy and all you mention as valid to the topic.

I don't see the problem with my post being off-topic, but I'm awaiting an answer to my question to the OP regarding that point. Perhaps I'll see the light.

bluesmoke said:

The topic was "Reexamining GOP obstruction in the obama era" not "government shutdowns harming the economy" or anything else you posted. The body of the OP went elsewhere than strictly the topic. It added more. To that, I added more.

In your post, you mentioned interest rates 2 times as being consistent with the topic. The Fed is nothing but about interest rates. Trump, IMO, obstructed the Feds duty of managing fund int rate which affects the economy and all you mention as valid to the topic.

I don't see the problem with my post being off-topic, but I'm awaiting an answer to my question to the OP regarding that point. Perhaps I'll see the light.

Click to expand...

Yes, you can draw a line from the subject of the post to what you're talking about. But you've still wandered off topic. The topic is the government shutdowns during Obama's presidency and the small business administration loans, among other things, whose absence hurt the economy.

You want to talk about how you don't like how Trump pressures the Fed. That's cool. I don't just don't see the relevance to the topic at hand. Yes, they both have to do with interest rates.

Digger said:

During Obama's presidency, the GOP shut down the government several times. Everyone agrees that this harmed the economy. But Republicans at the time argued that the issues they were being stubborn on were so important for the long term health of the economy that it justified the short term damage.

What were these issues? They wanted to repeal and replace Obamacare, they wanted to reduce the deficit. And they wanted to extend Bush's tax cuts for rich people.

What can we learn from their actions upon taking power in 2017 about the sincerity of their arguments? Well, they didn't repeal and replace Obamacare. They didn't reduce the deficit. They did give another huge stinking tax cut to rich people.

I conclude from this that the GOP doesn't really care about deficits and Obamacare. They harmed the economy for disingenuous reasons.

Why did they do it? Maybe they think tax cuts for rich people are so good for the economy in the long term that it's worth hurting the economy in the short term to get them.

But I posit another explanation. Instead of good but stupid, maybe they're evil but smart. McConnell let the truth slip when he said his highest priority was to deny obama a second term. Not create jobs, not help the economy. Hurt obama.

The tax cuts for the rich increased the deficit. Repeated shutdowns slowed the recovery. The GOP caused these things, and then complained that "Obama's deficit" was to big and "obama's recovery" was too slow.

Click to expand...

They don't have the mentality capacity to understand the pace of Obama's Recovery Agenda was and still is based on "Sustainable and Stable" Growth... NOT the: "spike -fleece- and crash" game that Republican promote and play.

By August of this Year... when the Economy takes the Nose Dive that is already shaping up... because of the damages Trump has done to Trade, Farmers, the Debt, the Deficit and the Looting of the Treasury, by the Tax Give Away to the wealthy... and the Fed's are in no position to bail him out!!! Already elements of the pending crash is in process... Trump has done nothing that promotes anything sustainable. Trump and the Modern Day Republican Mob are and has been always a "Snatch- Grab- Pump-Dump and Flee Mobster Network. Republican constituency have always loved that type of mentality!!!

Moderate Right said:

Someone somewhere once said, "Elections have consequences". Obama seemed to forget that in his second term after Republicans took over one thousand seats from Democrats, gaining both the House and the Senate and yet the left became the resistance against what voters wanted. And yet Obama seemed to forget that elections have consequences and tried his best to thwart what Americans wanted during his second term. Even today voters have voted in a Republican president and a Republican Senate, and yet Democrats have formed the resistance, while only controlling 1/3 of the government. I'll give you Republican obstruction from 2009-2014 but ever since January 2015, it has been constant Democratic obstruction, which has lasted five years now.

Click to expand...

When Democrats whine as this topic is whining, we are faced with 2 options.

Make the whiners our rulers though their policies are the opposite of what the nation needs or save the nation using economics the right way.

I support option two.

Digger said:

Yes, you can draw a line from the subject of the post to what you're talking about. But you've still wandered off topic. The topic is the government shutdowns during Obama's presidency and the small business administration loans, among other things, whose absence hurt the economy.

You want to talk about how you don't like how Trump pressures the Fed. That's cool. I don't just don't see the relevance to the topic at hand. Yes, they both have to do with interest rates.

Click to expand...

I do understand the economics of America.

We earn money, Democrats lunge forth in anger to use the Marx theorem, you do not deserve the fruit of your own labor, the democrats own that fruit.

Proving he was always wrong, past his presidency Obama became one of the very wealthy.

Robertinfremont said:

When Democrats whine as this topic is whining, we are faced with 2 options.

Make the whiners our rulers though their policies are the opposite of what the nation needs or save the nation using economics the right way.

I support option two.

Click to expand...

There is no political group and their constituency who "whine" and "cry" seeking authoritarianism's to try and dictate over society, with their acts, aims and efforts to try and deny something, stagnate something, regress and/or repress and suppress something than the continual habitual conduct and motives of Republicans.

They cried and whined about Debt and Deficit, when it took, $TRILLIONS to fix the mess that Republican Created of a Crash that would have become far worst than that of 1929... Obama handled it responsibly, where Bush wanted to give the money with no string and no responsibility pay it back, and not program and policy changes to avert the process of them doing it again.
Selective Amnesia is common place among Republican, and their attack something mentality is so vile, they can't think beyond attack, when raw fact is: they should be thankful that Obama got America off its knee's for such a smaller amount, than it would have taken any other President and he did with by creating checks and balances and stress test, as prohibitions from the wild and crazy greed motivations and antics and vile means they had used to loot and rob society, its institution and fleece the people.
Clinton made a statement which said, not he nor any other President over the past 50+ yrs could have achieved what Obama Achieved and did so in a time frame that other would not have even remotely approached. He did it with Republican attacking every step... and then Republican are DUMB enough to have expected him to wage a magic wand and create some utopia in an instance.
Ignorance, Bias, Bigotry, Racism and Plain Stupidity has been and continues to be a frame of Hallmark attributes to the Republican Politicians and they dupe their constituency to buy into their Bull****!!!!
Republican played every game they could to scare tactical games to blind peoples minds to what ACA was designed for and what it's Provisions is.... Only when Trump and Republican Tried to Repeal it... then and only then did Republican wake up and realize what it is and how it benefits them.

This type of generalized ignorance that is fed daily by right wing talking heads, republican politicians and wealthy corporations has made people more stupid than is even reasonable in this 21st Century.
I know this to be true, because I've talked to some face to face who spew the crap, and when the facts are explained to them, they say: "I did not know that", followed by "I never looked at it in that perspective", and that is followed up by saying: "I was not sure how it worked and what the provisions and protections were or how they actually worked". I've seen it repeated in those frames over and over and over.

Then I point out, a variety of other factors of which it always results to be of such info: "they did not read it", "they will not invest themselves to read the actual policy and laws".... and sadly... these are the same offsprings from parents and others who were actual adults during segregation; whom were "mob rallied to back and support segregation", "some backed it our of fear of reprisals if they did not", "some out of pure ignorance", "some because they followed folklore confabulations", and "some who are simply suitable candidates for any bias driven bigot who wants to drum up a posse"

....

Among the variety of issues with many is society today is: .. "They"= (Some Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians); simply don't possess nor have invested to develop the "intellectual capacity" to understand, it is visible in how so many have no understanding of a person like Elizabeth Warren, because she speaks from a long history of financial education and experiences within the Financial Regulatory system and she invested herself to "teach this at a University Level"...

So... point and fact is... may hear her talk, but they don't understand a damn thing she is saying, because they can't think in the Perspective to Comprehend the variable and associate them in real time life and socialite conditions.

It's common for people to fight against what they can't comprehend, because their greater fear is being seen as "ignorant".... when fact is... ignorance is not so bad, if a person is willing to learn.... while on the other hand "WILLFUL ignorance" makes Imbeciles...

Most of the same group of Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians have absolutely no conceptual ideal of the work that went into the Consumer Protection Agency.... many don't even know how Warren put the real world challenge to the Well Fargo Bank executive for the criminal act they engaged of creating fake profiles of people without their knowledge to play their "pump-spin-grab-fleece and seek to flee.... game... where some of their executives walked away with $10's of millions. These same Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians, still don't have any idea how it "directly affected and still has variables that still affects them" .

Democracy is truly for the educated to continue pursuing more education to advance and make better the Democracy, in the pursuit of making and ongoing more perfecting union of states,...as America.

No one can educate people to the extent they need it within a blog and commentary forum....

We know many come here to spin drama hoping to get a daily fix of ego elation with no regard for facts and principles of truth...

Robertinfremont said:

I do understand the economics of America.

We earn money, Democrats lunge forth in anger to use the Marx theorem, you do not deserve the fruit of your own labor, the democrats own that fruit.

Proving he was always wrong, past his presidency Obama became one of the very wealthy.

Click to expand...

Blue states with high taxes and liberal spending policies are dramatically more prosperous than a lot of red states.

Digger said:

Blue states with high taxes and liberal spending policies are dramatically more prosperous than a lot of red states.

Click to expand...

I eagerly await your proof.

What causes you to call Democrats ...LIBERALS?

RealityNow said:

Among the variety of issues with many is society today is: .. "They"= (Some Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians); simply don't possess nor have invested to develop the "intellectual capacity" to understand, it is visible in how so many have no understanding of a person like Elizabeth Warren, because she speaks from a long history of financial education and experiences within the Financial Regulatory system and she invested herself to "teach this at a University Level"...

So... point and fact is... may hear her talk, but they don't understand a damn thing she is saying, because they can't think in the Perspective to Comprehend the variable and associate them in real time life and socialite conditions.

It's common for people to fight against what they can't comprehend, because their greater fear is being seen as "ignorant".... when fact is... ignorance is not so bad, if a person is willing to learn.... while on the other hand "WILLFUL ignorance" makes Imbeciles...

Most of the same group of Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians have absolutely no conceptual ideal of the work that went into the Consumer Protection Agency.... many don't even know how Warren put the real world challenge to the Well Fargo Bank executive for the criminal act they engaged of creating fake profiles of people without their knowledge to play their "pump-spin-grab-fleece and seek to flee.... game... where some of their executives walked away with $10's of millions. These same Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians, still don't have any idea how it "directly affected and still has variables that still affects them" .

Democracy is truly for the educated to continue pursuing more education to advance and make better the Democracy, in the pursuit of making and ongoing more perfecting union of states,...as America.

No one can educate people to the extent they need it within a blog and commentary forum....

We know many come here to spin drama hoping to get a daily fix of ego elation with no regard for facts and principles of truth...

Click to expand...

Robertinfremont said:

I eagerly await your proof.

What causes you to call Democrats ...LIBERALS?

Click to expand...

A good way to measure the prosperity of an economy is GDP per capita. Agreed?

List of U.S. states by GDP per capita - Wikipedia

The top 3 most prosperous states are Massachusetts, New York and Connecticut. Delaware is number 5.

Alaska is fourth and North Dakota is 6th. These are small populations with big oil extraction industries. Good for them, but doesn't really say anything about their economic policies. They just got lucky.

Wyoming is 7th. And I honestly don't know why Wyoming is so prosperous. I don't know much about Wyoming.

California, that bastion of prosperity killing liberal policies, is the 8th most prosperous state, followed by New Jersey, and Washington state.

At the bottom of the list, it's all the usual subjects. The 6 least prosperous states in the country are Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, West Virginia, Idaho, and Mississippi.

Arizona and Maine, two purple states, is the 7th and 8th least prosperous state.

Kentucky and Montana are the 9th and 10th least properous.

summary :

7 of the top 10 most prosperous states are blue states. 3 of the top 10 are red states, two of which have small populations and large oil industries. Alaska just hands each resident $1,600/year in oil dividends.

8 of the 10 least prosperous states are red. Two of them are swing states.

Digger said:

A good way to measure the prosperity of an economy is GDP per capita. Agreed?

List of U.S. states by GDP per capita - Wikipedia

The top 3 most prosperous states are Massachusetts, New York and Connecticut. Delaware is number 5.

Alaska is fourth and North Dakota is 6th. These are small populations with big oil extraction industries. Good for them, but doesn't really say anything about their economic policies. They just got lucky.

Wyoming is 7th. And I honestly don't know why Wyoming is so prosperous. I don't know much about Wyoming.

California, that bastion of prosperity killing liberal policies, is the 8th most prosperous state, followed by New Jersey, and Washington state.

At the bottom of the list, it's all the usual subjects. The 6 least prosperous states in the country are Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, West Virginia, Idaho, and Mississippi.

Arizona and Maine, two purple states, is the 7th and 8th least prosperous state.

Kentucky and Montana are the 9th and 10th least properous.

summary :

7 of the top 10 most prosperous states are blue states. 3 of the top 10 are red states, two of which have small populations and large oil industries. Alaska just hands each resident $1,600/year in oil dividends.

8 of the 10 least prosperous states are red. Two of them are swing states.

Click to expand...

Have you spent time in most or all states?

While GDP is one measure, it by far is not the sole measure. CA was prosperous prior to the ruling party there now.

I have spent enough time in those states to understand why this or that about their economies. Wyoming for instance reaps huge tax rewards from oil.

I also believe that some of those states have no income taxes and or sales taxes.

You are using, in my opinion, a false reasoning as why states rank as red or blue as causing them to be prosperous.

RealityNow said:

Among the variety of issues with many is society today is: .. "They"= (Some Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians); simply don't possess nor have invested to develop the "intellectual capacity" to understand, it is visible in how so many have no understanding of a person like Elizabeth Warren, because she speaks from a long history of financial education and experiences within the Financial Regulatory system and she invested herself to "teach this at a University Level"...

So... point and fact is... may hear her talk, but they don't understand a damn thing she is saying, because they can't think in the Perspective to Comprehend the variable and associate them in real time life and socialite conditions.

It's common for people to fight against what they can't comprehend, because their greater fear is being seen as "ignorant".... when fact is... ignorance is not so bad, if a person is willing to learn.... while on the other hand "WILLFUL ignorance" makes Imbeciles...

Most of the same group of Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians have absolutely no conceptual ideal of the work that went into the Consumer Protection Agency.... many don't even know how Warren put the real world challenge to the Well Fargo Bank executive for the criminal act they engaged of creating fake profiles of people without their knowledge to play their "pump-spin-grab-fleece and seek to flee.... game... where some of their executives walked away with $10's of millions. These same Un-educated and under-educated Republican, Democrats, Independents and Libertarians, still don't have any idea how it "directly affected and still has variables that still affects them" .

Democracy is truly for the educated to continue pursuing more education to advance and make better the Democracy, in the pursuit of making and ongoing more perfecting union of states,...as America.

No one can educate people to the extent they need it within a blog and commentary forum....

We know many come here to spin drama hoping to get a daily fix of ego elation with no regard for facts and principles of truth...

Click to expand...

This is why you keep losing elections. Its never a good idea to insult the voters, they always get the last laugh. It wont even matter if you are right or not, the ballot box is the final say.

Digger said:

A good way to measure the prosperity of an economy is GDP per capita. Agreed?

List of U.S. states by GDP per capita - Wikipedia

The top 3 most prosperous states are Massachusetts, New York and Connecticut. Delaware is number 5.

Alaska is fourth and North Dakota is 6th. These are small populations with big oil extraction industries. Good for them, but doesn't really say anything about their economic policies. They just got lucky.

Wyoming is 7th. And I honestly don't know why Wyoming is so prosperous. I don't know much about Wyoming.

California, that bastion of prosperity killing liberal policies, is the 8th most prosperous state, followed by New Jersey, and Washington state.

At the bottom of the list, it's all the usual subjects. The 6 least prosperous states in the country are Alabama, South Carolina, Arkansas, West Virginia, Idaho, and Mississippi.

Arizona and Maine, two purple states, is the 7th and 8th least prosperous state.

Kentucky and Montana are the 9th and 10th least properous.

summary :

7 of the top 10 most prosperous states are blue states. 3 of the top 10 are red states, two of which have small populations and large oil industries. Alaska just hands each resident $1,600/year in oil dividends.

8 of the 10 least prosperous states are red. Two of them are swing states.

Click to expand...

California has oil, the entertainment industry, the tech sector and how many ports? It would be quite easy to say California got lucky too. The arbitrary nature of your judgments leaves a lot to be desired.

OpportunityCost said:

This is why you keep losing elections. Its never a good idea to insult the voters, they always get the last laugh. It wont even matter if you are right or not, the ballot box is the final say.

Click to expand...

You should think about that every time you post some stuff talking about "lefties"... Geez.... your one sided tunnel view concept, blinds you from applying your commentary to YOURSELF.

Digger said:

During Obama's presidency, the GOP shut down the government several times. Everyone agrees that this harmed the economy. But Republicans at the time argued that the issues they were being stubborn on were so important for the long term health of the economy that it justified the short term damage.

What were these issues? They wanted to repeal and replace Obamacare, they wanted to reduce the deficit. And they wanted to extend Bush's tax cuts for rich people.

What can we learn from their actions upon taking power in 2017 about the sincerity of their arguments? Well, they didn't repeal and replace Obamacare. They didn't reduce the deficit. They did give another huge stinking tax cut to rich people.

I conclude from this that the GOP doesn't really care about deficits and Obamacare. They harmed the economy for disingenuous reasons.

Why did they do it? Maybe they think tax cuts for rich people are so good for the economy in the long term that it's worth hurting the economy in the short term to get them.

But I posit another explanation. Instead of good but stupid, maybe they're evil but smart. McConnell let the truth slip when he said his highest priority was to deny obama a second term. Not create jobs, not help the economy. Hurt obama.

The tax cuts for the rich increased the deficit. Repeated shutdowns slowed the recovery. The GOP caused these things, and then complained that "Obama's deficit" was to big and "obama's recovery" was too slow.

Click to expand...

All politicians are hypocrites and neither party gives a darn about the national debt.

Digger said:

During Obama's presidency, the GOP shut down the government several times. Everyone agrees that this harmed the economy. But Republicans at the time argued that the issues they were being stubborn on were so important for the long term health of the economy that it justified the short term damage.

What were these issues? They wanted to repeal and replace Obamacare, they wanted to reduce the deficit. And they wanted to extend Bush's tax cuts for rich people.

What can we learn from their actions upon taking power in 2017 about the sincerity of their arguments? Well, they didn't repeal and replace Obamacare. They didn't reduce the deficit. They did give another huge stinking tax cut to rich people.

I conclude from this that the GOP doesn't really care about deficits and Obamacare. They harmed the economy for disingenuous reasons.

Why did they do it? Maybe they think tax cuts for rich people are so good for the economy in the long term that it's worth hurting the economy in the short term to get them.

But I posit another explanation. Instead of good but stupid, maybe they're evil but smart. McConnell let the truth slip when he said his highest priority was to deny obama a second term. Not create jobs, not help the economy. Hurt obama.

The tax cuts for the rich increased the deficit. Repeated shutdowns slowed the recovery. The GOP caused these things, and then complained that "Obama's deficit" was to big and "obama's recovery" was too slow.

Click to expand...

Yeah they seem to forget W crashed the economy even though folks like mashmont rate W way above obama. The gop doesn't govern, they rule. They are out for big business and the super wealthy. One day their base may wake up and realize this fact. Nah.

Robertinfremont said:

Have you spent time in most or all states?

While GDP is one measure, it by far is not the sole measure. CA was prosperous prior to the ruling party there now.

I have spent enough time in those states to understand why this or that about their economies. Wyoming for instance reaps huge tax rewards from oil.

I also believe that some of those states have no income taxes and or sales taxes.

You are using, in my opinion, a false reasoning as why states rank as red or blue as causing them to be prosperous.

Click to expand...

I've hitch hiked from coast to coast and back twice. I've hitch hiked up and down the East Coast and then over to New Orleans. I've taken one South Western road trip. I think that I've got every contiguous state. But I honestly don't remember anymore.

I'm not postulating any reason to explain it. I'm just pointing out the fact that it's true. Blue states, that have liberal tax and spend policies, have the highest GDP per capita in the country. The only 3 Red states in the top 10 have small populations and lots of oil. 8 of the 10 Red states with the smallest GDP per capita are red states, and the other 2 are swing states.

Have you ever looked up which states receive the most federal welfare spending per capita?

Perotista said:

All politicians are hypocrites and neither party gives a darn about the national debt.

Click to expand...

Neither party cares about the debt. But only one party uses the debt as an excuse to shut down the government, harming the economy. Only one party keeps passing massive tax cuts while increasing spending. The other party proposes tax increases to pay for the money they want to spend. Democrats have become the party of fiscal responsibility. Just look at the last few decades. Every time a Republican president gets a Republican Congress, the deficit explodes!