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Eliminate Payroll Taxes and Flat Tax Everything Sold

Helix said:
i support taxing all income as income above a cap. there is no good reason for a billionaire investor to be exempted from the bracket system.
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NEITHER party has attempted to fix carried interest,which treats capital gains for billionaires fairly. I am in favor of much more substantive fixes to the code. Most folks here have no idea of the complexity and various taxes we are subject to.

No offense but I find it cheap politics to chant "tax the billionaires". I have no problem but it really fixes little. Remember that people like Buffett who famously said he paid a lower rate than his secretary, will pay ZERO taxes on the bulk of his wealth! Even with a "wealth tax" there are ways to insure that most wealth can be transferred to generations at little to no taxes. Loopholes that I have not heard Warren or Sanders talk about closing.

Lets remember that both parties live off the campaign contributions of the super rich. While there are a few that might say tax me, would love to see if those folks find ways to shelter their wealth when the time comes for them to be taxed.
 
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Allan said:
This is another example of not wanting to pay taxes but wanting the services they use every day. Welfare at it's finest.
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It's creating a tax break for the working class. Why shouldn't they get to keep their income? So rich people don't have to pay?
 
washunut said:
NEITHER party has attempted to fix carried interest,which treats capital gains for billionaires fairly.

I see that trying to have a true debate on the issue or any issue works with you.

My bad for attempting an honest debate. Not interested in my side versus your side. I no longer have a side.
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The fix for this starts with candidates that eschew corporate money so they are not beholden to them.
 
tacomancer said:
That would only create more black markets, especially among the poor that couldn't afford such a tax.
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The Progressives running California jack up taxes and fees on a regular basis. Highest taxes and fees in the nation.

Since they claim to be the champions of the poor and disadvantaged, it's clear they don't agree with your take.
 
ocean515 said:
The Progressives running California jack up taxes and fees on a regular basis. Highest taxes and fees in the nation.

Since they claim to be the champions of the poor and disadvantaged, it's clear they don't agree with your take.
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ok?



..
 
washunut said:
NEITHER party has attempted to fix carried interest,which treats capital gains for billionaires fairly. I am in favor of much more substantive fixes to the code. Most folks here have no idea of the complexity and various taxes we are subject to.

No offense but I find it cheap politics to chant "tax the billionaires". I have no problem but it really fixes little. Remember that people like Buffett who famously said he paid a lower rate than his secretary, will pay ZERO taxes on the bulk of his wealth! Even with a "wealth tax" there are ways to insure that most wealth can be transferred to generations at little to no taxes. Loopholes that I have not heard Warren or Sanders talk about closing.

Lets remember that both parties live off the campaign contributions of the super rich. While there are a few that might say tax me, would love to see if those folks find ways to shelter their wealth when the time comes for them to be taxed.
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I still see no reason to exempt billionaires from the bracket system.
 
tacomancer said:
The fix for this starts with candidates that eschew corporate money so they are not beholden to them.
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Agree that is a good thing. Would like to see a candidate that truly understood the issue.
 
rocket88 said:
It's creating a tax break for the working class. Why shouldn't they get to keep their income? So rich people don't have to pay?
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Then the working class would become the welfare class. You expect to use the services provided by other taxpayers you contribute like everyone else. Rich people too.
 
Moot said:
I don't think food should be taxed at all.
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I don't agree actually. If we're going to tax 'consumption' then food should be taxed. It's a big part of "consumption" and if you narrow the base by excluding all "food" then to raise similar revenue sales tax rates on everything else have to be higher, and much of those are also necessities, like clothing, or furniture or appliances like a washer/dryer.

And lots of food is in fact luxury spending, such as $28/pound ribeyes or the $38/lb bacon wrapped prime filets at my local grocery, and eating out at nice places that might run $100 per person. Is a $9/pint thing of ice cream "food?" How about snickers bars? Energy drinks? Coca Cola? Milk? Coffee? If milk and coffee are 'food' how about a $7 large latte?

In practice lots of states exempt food or tax "food" at lower rates, and try to some extent to delineate between food that is part of the necessities of a balanced diet and what edible things are luxury items. So "candy" is often exempt, but that's really hard to define. Some define candy in ways that a Kit Kat bar with wheat is exempt "food," but a Snickers without wheat but with nuts is "candy." Truth is it's a mess, and ONE reason why asking online sellers to collect sales tax in 50 states is kind of a mess is that there might be 45 different definitions of "food."

Anyway, the tax policy people mostly believe that the best tax system has very broad bases, and lower rates, which means tax more or less everything. And you make up for the burden on the poor by addressing poverty for the poor directly with transfer payments, EBT, EITC, Medicaid, etc. versus making things slightly better for those who need the help while exempting a bunch of our household's luxury "food" purchases.
 
Allan said:
Then the working class would become the welfare class. You expect to use the services provided by other taxpayers you contribute like everyone else. Rich people too.
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The poor and working class already use more services. Having them pay more taxes just means they need more services. Give them a huge tax cut and the welfare rolls go down considerably.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Either prove it or move on to something you know something about.
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How Black Markets Work

Black markets also arise when people don't want to pay taxes on the transaction for legal or illegal goods or services. Some black markets exist simply because people don't realize there are laws they aren't following, such as bartering and not reporting the taxable value of the transaction, or hiring a regular housekeeper or babysitter but failing to pay employment taxes.
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RetiredUSN said:
I know the black market and your cut and paste only proves than you know little about it.

I ask you to explain in your words how a flat tax will increase this behavior.

Not a cut and paste dodge.
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You have a habit of trying to overdefine my response :shrug:
 
tacomancer said:
You have a habit of trying to overdefine my response :shrug:
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You have a serious habit of saying things without providing proof of what you say.

I will ask you for the 3rd time ...................how a flat tax will increase a shadow economy?
 
RetiredUSN said:
You have a serious habit of saying things without providing proof of what you say.

I will ask you for the 3rd time ...................how a flat tax will increase a shadow economy?
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you got your answer
 
tacomancer said:
you got your answer
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You cut and pasted the quickest thing you could get off Google.


I have no time for your BS, so please stick to subjects that you actually have any knowledge of instead of tossing in empty generalizations.
 
RetiredUSN said:
You cut and pasted the quickest thing you could get off Google.


I have no time for your BS, so please stick to subjects that you actually have any knowledge of instead of tossing in empty generalizations.
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So anyway, back to black markets ...
 
bluesmoke said:
Eliminate the max limit on payroll taxes so that the amount of income over that limit pay "payroll taxes" for the entire amount of their pay and thus better fund SS.
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do the people who pay more into the program, get more OUT of the program?
 
we completely GUT the IRS

we completely change the IRS tax laws and make two and only two returns

individual, and business

individual tax return....everyone pays exact same rate after first 50k in earnings (25%)
no deductions....none....not for charity, mortgages, kids, nothing

business tax returns.....zero taxes on businesses (as business pays out anything to individuals it is ALL counted as regular income)
doesnt matter if dividends, bonuses, etc....anyone paid other than vendors gets a W2....and it all gets counted as regular income

we dont want or need to tax business....they provide jobs....and if we zero tax them, they will love doing business here.....

yes, the market will love this, and the investors will buy the stocks

jobs, and income from those jobs is what makes the economy sing.....
 
TurtleDude said:
why? is it regressive for a guy making minimum wage to pay the same for a cheeseburger or a ticket to a movie as a rich guy? should a millionaire pay 10,000 dollars for his driver's license because you have to pay 45 dollars?

Life is regressive. And you should pay the same fees for the same value received.
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No, life is not regressive. The purpose of taxation is to fund necessary services without overburdening lower income citizens. Income tax is for those making steady income who have the opportunity to make more money. Sales taxes, like property taxes, place an unfair burden on not only low income earners but those on fixed incomes. In addition, sales taxes are subject to more unpredictable fluctuations due to consumer activity. Income tax provides a more stable and predictable income stream. This is better for government budgeting.

Taxing is not about receiving equal value for what you pay in at all. It is about funding the necessary things for a stable society and a reliable infrastructure. We all pay for education, even if we don't equally directly benefit, because it is better for society as a whole. Same goes for Social Security. It is to insure that we fund the best, most stable society that we can. It is not about getting the same value back for yoursel as you pay in taxes. Who would even be able to keep track of that?
 
devildavid said:
No, life is not regressive. The purpose of taxation is to fund necessary services without overburdening lower income citizens. Income tax is for those making steady income who have the opportunity to make more money. Sales taxes, like property taxes, place an unfair burden on not only low income earners but those on fixed incomes. In addition, sales taxes are subject to more unpredictable fluctuations due to consumer activity. Income tax provides a more stable and predictable income stream. This is better for government budgeting.

Taxing is not about receiving equal value for what you pay in at all. It is about funding the necessary things for a stable society and a reliable infrastructure. We all pay for education, even if we don't equally directly benefit, because it is better for society as a whole. Same goes for Social Security. It is to insure that we fund the best, most stable society that we can. It is not about getting the same value back for yoursel as you pay in taxes. Who would even be able to keep track of that?
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where is that written?
 
TurtleDude said:
where is that written?
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Why does something have to be written to reflect what is actually taking place? We don't govern from a written set of instructions, but take actions deemed necessary at the time. This is how taxation came about. And it was decided over time that it was not good to overburden lower income citizens with taxation.
 
devildavid said:
Why does something have to be written to reflect what is actually taking place? We don't govern from a written set of instructions, but take actions deemed necessary at the time. This is how taxation came about. And it was decided over time that it was not good to overburden lower income citizens with taxation.
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we have an environment now that will ultimately collapse. Democrats and to some extent, Republicans-keep promising people more stuff and avoid pissing the majority off by claiming "the rich" will pay for it. Right now, the middle class isn't taxed enough for them to start saying-enough is enough
 
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