What deficit

The prospect we face likely is not a matter of existential disaster or some kind of fiscal implosion. We can probably live with debt like this, but it will mean that our economy has less to offer our people and that we are much weaker and more vulnerable than we have to be. Doing something about it would require modest reforms, reached as compromises. But that’s just what we can’t do now. And so instead we find cowardly silence on the right and careless, nonsensical promises on the left.

What Deficit? | National Review

Comments?

So long as continually running annual federal "budget" deficits of $1T (or more) gets congress critters re-elected at a rate of over 90% there will be no change. It would be political stupidity of the highest order for congress critters to change what is clearly a resulting in resounding success (modest economic growth and incumbents keeping their power).

Real trouble will occur when (not if) the economy, for whatever reason(s), stops growing, or worse, hits a recession/depression and there is noting left to do but more deficit spending (at least double the current annual deficits?) to try to save it. Eventually, the rising cost of national debt service will cause inflation and force "Austerity Day" - I hope to be dead before that happens.

KLATTU said:

The prospect we face likely is not a matter of existential disaster or some kind of fiscal implosion. We can probably live with debt like this, but it will mean that our economy has less to offer our people and that we are much weaker and more vulnerable than we have to be. Doing something about it would require modest reforms, reached as compromises. But that’s just what we can’t do now. And so instead we find cowardly silence on the right and careless, nonsensical promises on the left.

What Deficit? | National Review

Comments?

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For one, you could have put your paragraph in quotation marks as it is in its entirety an excerpt from the article that only too few would read all the way through to the last paragraph, which came right after yours, to find.

And what do you believe is the “cowardly silence on the right” and are, specifically, the “careless, nonsensical promises on the left.”?

Thx.

KLATTU said:

Comments?

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The simple reality is that if we were still using President Obama's tax brackets most our current deficit would not exist and it's at least possible that we could have a surplus right now. Eliminating those tax brackets was 100% the choice of the republican party. They did not have the votes necessary to cut spending, but they rammed home unnecessary tax cuts anyway.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that we could not cover most of these costs and drive down our debt with reasonable tax increases again. We should have been using the excellent economy left to us by President Obama to pay down our debt and get ourselves in a place of greater fiscal responsibility.

If Hillary Clinton was currently the President of the United States and Democrats controlled both houses of congress I can guarantee you that our economy would be just as strong if not stronger than it is today and we'd be much much farther down the road of fixing the exact issues highlighted in this article. Our current fiscal issues are 100% the fault of Republicans. Democrats may spend money, but they invest it in things that give us a return on our investment and they make sure they are bringing in the tax revenue necessary to cover those investments.

KLATTU said:

Comments?

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The other massive elephant in the room(not the GOP mascot) is the student loan issue. You currently have millions or our nations most highly educated and highest earners not only paying the bulk of the taxes necessary to fund baby boomers entitlements, but they are also paying interest on the loans they needed to get the education that resulted in their high paying jobs.

If baby boomers are going to demand that their children pay for their retirement they had better pull their heads out of their asses and make sure those same kids are on good financial footing before they do. The Millennial generation is already having a difficult enough time as it is paying for the basic necessities of life. Buying their first homes, having children and saving for their own retirement let alone being forced to cover the asses of the very baby boomers who left them this mess in the first place.

MrWonka said:

The simple reality is that if we were still using President Obama's tax brackets most our current deficit would not exist and it's at least possible that we could have a surplus right now. .

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"Objection:Speculation"
"Sustained"

MrWonka said:

T


If Hillary Clinton was currently the President of the United States and Democrats controlled both houses of congress I can guarantee you that our economy would be just as strong if not stronger than it is today as.

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"Objection: Speculation "
"Sustained"

MrWonka said:

T Democrats may spend money, but they invest it in things that give us a return on our investment .

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Like????

KLATTU said:

The prospect we face likely is not a matter of existential disaster or some kind of fiscal implosion. We can probably live with debt like this, but it will mean that our economy has less to offer our people and that we are much weaker and more vulnerable than we have to be. Doing something about it would require modest reforms, reached as compromises. But that’s just what we can’t do now. And so instead we find cowardly silence on the right and careless, nonsensical promises on the left.

What Deficit? | National Review

Comments?

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From your link. Not a pretty picture from the "Fiscally Conservative Party:roll:" --->

MrWonka said:

The other massive elephant in the room(not the GOP mascot) is the student loan issue. You currently have millions or our nations most highly educated and highest earners not only paying the bulk of the taxes necessary to fund baby boomers entitlements, but they are also paying interest on the loans they needed to get the education that resulted in their high paying jobs.

If baby boomers are going to demand that their children pay for their retirement they had better pull their heads out of their asses and make sure those same kids are on good financial footing before they do. The Millennial generation is already having a difficult enough time as it is paying for the basic necessities of life. Buying their first homes, having children and saving for their own retirement let alone being forced to cover the asses of the very baby boomers who left them this mess in the first place.

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what?
first of all it was not the Baby boomers who started the SS system ( I take it that is what you are talking about )
the baby boomers paid in to that system at a higher rate of FICA taxes.
it has always been a pay as you go system and over the years had and still has a large surplus that the government forced to be put in government bonds that nobody but the Government could buy. then they took that surplus and used it to keep the deficits down
a lot of that surplus was from the baby boomers paying into that fund and they are entitled to get their money back
Have a nice day

KLATTU said:

The prospect we face likely is not a matter of existential disaster or some kind of fiscal implosion. We can probably live with debt like this, but it will mean that our economy has less to offer our people and that we are much weaker and more vulnerable than we have to be. Doing something about it would require modest reforms, reached as compromises. But that’s just what we can’t do now. And so instead we find cowardly silence on the right and careless, nonsensical promises on the left.

What Deficit? | National Review

Comments?

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But we need ten aircraft carriers and bases all over the world and wars in places that can never hurt us!!!!!

KLATTU said:

The prospect we face likely is not a matter of existential disaster or some kind of fiscal implosion. We can probably live with debt like this, but it will mean that our economy has less to offer our people and that we are much weaker and more vulnerable than we have to be. Doing something about it would require modest reforms, reached as compromises. But that’s just what we can’t do now. And so instead we find cowardly silence on the right and careless, nonsensical promises on the left.

What Deficit? | National Review

Comments?

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Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, or terror cannot be capitally necessary nor capitally proper, if the Richest, refuse to pay WarTime Tax Rates for them.

In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice of life and property that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. Therefore, we demand ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

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danielpalos said:

Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, or terror cannot be capitally necessary nor capitally proper, if the Richest, refuse to pay WarTime Tax Rates for them.

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It's a fair point,Daniel

Tbird19482 said:

what?
first of all it was not the Baby boomers who started the SS system

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They are the ones that will be collecting it for the next decade or two.

Tbird19482 said:

the baby boomers paid in to that system at a higher rate of FICA taxes.

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Nonsensical garbage. The baby boomers entered the economy in the early 80s when Reagan slashed taxes significantly. They also radically outnumbered their parents making it easy for them to cover the previous generation. Millennials will likely end up paying double the tax that their parents did in order to offer the same benefits.

Tbird19482 said:

it has always been a pay as you go system and over the years had and still has a large surplus that the government forced to be put in government bonds that nobody but the Government could buy. then they took that surplus and used it to keep the deficits down
a lot of that surplus was from the baby boomers paying into that fund and they are entitled to get their money back

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Ultimately the way SS works is that younger people that are still working pay taxes to help the older generation. The money that baby boomers paid in went to their parents. The money millennials pay in will go to baby boomers. Millennials would be happy do to that, but realistically we have enough problems of our own. Thanks to the baby boomers bad political decisions we're way behind in life. Struggling to pay off student loan debt, stuck renting instead of buying, and unable to afford children who will some day pay into our SS.

Given that this mess is largely the baby boomers fault to begin with it seems only fair that they should be the ones shouldering the burden. They should be forced to pay down the National Debt that they left us with before they leave this earth.

KLATTU said:

It's a fair point,Daniel

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Thank you for your support for reducing the cost of Government.

MrWonka said:

They are the ones that will be collecting it for the next decade or two.


Nonsensical garbage. The baby boomers entered the economy in the early 80s when Reagan slashed taxes significantly. They also radically outnumbered their parents making it easy for them to cover the previous generation. Millennials will likely end up paying double the tax that their parents did in order to offer the same benefits.


Ultimately the way SS works is that younger people that are still working pay taxes to help the older generation. The money that baby boomers paid in went to their parents. The money millennials pay in will go to baby boomers. Millennials would be happy do to that, but realistically we have enough problems of our own. Thanks to the baby boomers bad political decisions we're way behind in life. Struggling to pay off student loan debt, stuck renting instead of buying, and unable to afford children who will some day pay into our SS.

Given that this mess is largely the baby boomers fault to begin with it seems only fair that they should be the ones shouldering the burden. They should be forced to pay down the National Debt that they left us with before they leave this earth.

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I see you don't even know what a "baby Boomer is "
Here read and learn https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/baby_boomer.asp
most were born in the late 40's and during the 50's so most of them started to work in the 1960's
and a lot of them were the ones that went to NAM
the FICA tax rate was 7.2% it is now 6.2% doesn't sound like much but if you worked at a good paying job for over 40 Years it adds up
in 2017 the SS system had a 44 Billion dollar surplus and it has
Social Security now has nearly $3 trillion in reserves

This surplus is added to the Social Security reserves, which are held in two trust funds. The OASI (Old Age and Survivors Insurance) trust fund holds the reserves for retirement benefits and benefits paid to survivors of deceased workers, while the DI (Disability Insurance) trust fund supports disability benefit payments.

Including the $44.1 billion surplus Social Security ran in 2017, the combined trust funds now hold $2.892 trillion in reserves.

Ones more the SS system did NOT start during the baby boomer years they like you were born AFTER it started.
You need to do a little research on the subject before you blame it on the baby boomers.
and as for the debt well for your info MOST of the national debt came AFTER Reagan took office
" During Reagan's presidency, the federal debt held by the public nearly tripled in nominal terms, from $738 billion to $2.1 trillion. almost tripling the debt , Bush II doubled the debt , the FACT is they are the ONLY two Presidents in the last 50 years to over double the debt
I know the Republicans say Obama did well he took over the debt was 11.6 Trillion dollars so if he doubled it why wasn't it OVER 23 Trillion when Trump took over?
it was in the 19 Trillion dollar range NOT 23 Trillion

You blame the baby boomers for the debt well REAGAN and most of the people in the Fed Gov were a lot older then the baby boomers maybe you should take a look at them and some of the debt you can blame on the Republican tax cuts
Reagan cut taxes and almost tripled the debt Bush II cut taxes and doubled the debt
yes maybe over the last 20 years it has been the baby boomers but they also paid a lot higher tax rate over the years then we do now and they paid a higher FICA tax rate
Have a nice night

MrWonka said:

They are the ones that will be collecting it for the next decade or two.


Nonsensical garbage. The baby boomers entered the economy in the early 80s when Reagan slashed taxes significantly. They also radically outnumbered their parents making it easy for them to cover the previous generation. Millennials will likely end up paying double the tax that their parents did in order to offer the same benefits.


Ultimately the way SS works is that younger people that are still working pay taxes to help the older generation. The money that baby boomers paid in went to their parents. The money millennials pay in will go to baby boomers. Millennials would be happy do to that, but realistically we have enough problems of our own. Thanks to the baby boomers bad political decisions we're way behind in life. Struggling to pay off student loan debt, stuck renting instead of buying, and unable to afford children who will some day pay into our SS.

Given that this mess is largely the baby boomers fault to begin with it seems only fair that they should be the ones shouldering the burden. They should be forced to pay down the National Debt that they left us with before they leave this earth.

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PS
you can see here that the Baby Boomers paid a higher FICA tax rate then they do today
FICA & SECA Tax Rates

in 1962 the first year I started working ( at 14 ) we paid 3.15% ( i know it is 6.2% now but with inflation that the 3.15% tax rate would have been higher then what we pay today,)
and that tax rate kept going up , I was paying 7.2% in the 90's and 2000's
and I was lucky I paid in the max for over 30 of the 50 plus years I worked
so I help pay my part
Have a nice night

ttwtt78640 said:

So long as continually running annual federal "budget" deficits of $1T (or more) gets congress critters re-elected at a rate of over 90% there will be no change. It would be political stupidity of the highest order for congress critters to change what is clearly a resulting in resounding success (modest economic growth and incumbents keeping their power).

Real trouble will occur when (not if) the economy, for whatever reason(s), stops growing, or worse, hits a recession/depression and there is noting left to do but more deficit spending (at least double the current annual deficits?) to try to save it. Eventually, the rising cost of national debt service will cause inflation and force "Austerity Day" - I hope to be dead before that happens.

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Yep, running our current deficits and debts are actually no problem - until one day the **** hits the fan like some major world problem (nah, surely that can't ever happen). When interest rates spike a lot higher we're effed.

MrWonka said:

The simple reality is that if we were still using President Obama's tax brackets most our current deficit would not exist and it's at least possible that we could have a surplus right now.

Click to expand...

What a crock of crap. Yes, the tax cuts added to the deficit but that statement is a total lie. You also assume that the economy would have been the exact same. Revenues were actually up because of the tax cuts.

MrWonka said:

The other massive elephant in the room(not the GOP mascot) is the student loan issue. You currently have millions or our nations most highly educated and highest earners not only paying the bulk of the taxes necessary to fund baby boomers entitlements, but they are also paying interest on the loans they needed to get the education that resulted in their high paying jobs.

If baby boomers are going to demand that their children pay for their retirement they had better pull their heads out of their asses and make sure those same kids are on good financial footing before they do. The Millennial generation is already having a difficult enough time as it is paying for the basic necessities of life. Buying their first homes, having children and saving for their own retirement let alone being forced to cover the asses of the very baby boomers who left them this mess in the first place.

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We shouldn't be giving loans to people who have no reasonable expectation of paying them back. That's the problem. We give loans to any moron who wants to go to college and then we wonder why they wind up working at McDonalds and can't pay their loans back.

KLATTU said:

"Objection:Speculation"
"Sustained"



"Objection: Speculation "
"Sustained"



Like????

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Speculation is a good word for the left. They are the king of speculation.

vegas giants said:

But we need ten aircraft carriers and bases all over the world and wars in places that can never hurt us!!!!!

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And then you criticize Trump for abandoning the Kurds! Please make up your mind.

KLATTU said:

The prospect we face likely is not a matter of existential disaster or some kind of fiscal implosion. We can probably live with debt like this, but it will mean that our economy has less to offer our people and that we are much weaker and more vulnerable than we have to be. Doing something about it would require modest reforms, reached as compromises. But that’s just what we can’t do now. And so instead we find cowardly silence on the right and careless, nonsensical promises on the left.

What Deficit? | National Review

Comments?

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Blowing off concerns about the deficit in lieu of finding more and more ways to spend is a bipartisan affliction. When you send a hoard of "I know how to solve all our problems, just give me the money" types to work amongst others of the same ilk without adult supervision this is what we get. And. they do it FULL-FRICKIN'-TIME.

The solution isn't easy, in fact I doubt a workable solution exists. 60-70% of our spending is MANDATORY; there's no wiggle room there. And it's likely to get worse before it gets better - IF it ever does get better. The money we're borrowing now is at very low rates, anything that spikes interest rates will be painful. Can we cut spending in a meaningful way? In an increasingly dangerous world with Russia and China limbering up their military muscles can we contract defense spending? Is there a cheaper way of providing retiree healthcare and retirement security? How many government programs and agencies are not cost effective?

MrWonka said:

The simple reality is that if we were still using President Obama's tax brackets most our current deficit would not exist and it's at least possible that we could have a surplus right now. Eliminating those tax brackets was 100% the choice of the republican party. They did not have the votes necessary to cut spending, but they rammed home unnecessary tax cuts anyway.

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What? In what universe? "Eliminating" Obama's tax brackets? Sorry, on. All that happened was a few minor adjustments in rates 2-3%. And as a result REVENUES HAVE INCREASED.

MrWonka said:

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to think that we could not cover most of these costs and drive down our debt with reasonable tax increases again. We should have been using the excellent economy left to us by President Obama to pay down our debt and get ourselves in a place of greater fiscal responsibility.

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LOL, are your serious? We GOT the increases we got because of the tax adjustments not IN SPITE of them.

MrWonka said:

If Hillary Clinton was currently the President of the United States and Democrats controlled both houses of congress I can guarantee you that our economy would be just as strong if not stronger than it is today and we'd be much much farther down the road of fixing the exact issues highlighted in this article. Our current fiscal issues are 100% the fault of Republicans. Democrats may spend money, but they invest it in things that give us a return on our investment and they make sure they are bringing in the tax revenue necessary to cover those investments.

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LOL, delusions run deep in the Wonka household. Given the sputtering, gasping economy during Obama's last two years having Hilary running "Obama's third term" we'd be deep in a recession by now.

MrWonka said:

The other massive elephant in the room(not the GOP mascot) is the student loan issue. You currently have millions or our nations most highly educated and highest earners not only paying the bulk of the taxes necessary to fund baby boomers entitlements, but they are also paying interest on the loans they needed to get the education that resulted in their high paying jobs.

If baby boomers are going to demand that their children pay for their retirement they had better pull their heads out of their asses and make sure those same kids are on good financial footing before they do. The Millennial generation is already having a difficult enough time as it is paying for the basic necessities of life. Buying their first homes, having children and saving for their own retirement let alone being forced to cover the asses of the very baby boomers who left them this mess in the first place.

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How about we restrict student loans to only majors in high paying fields? No more six-year, $100,000 educations in, oh say, Diversity Studies, or Albanian Erotic Poetry?

Media_Truth said:

From your link. Not a pretty picture from the "Fiscally Conservative Party:roll:" --->

View attachment 67266677

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I think the article made clear that Republicans pretty much have ignored that title.

Tbird19482 said:

what?
first of all it was not the Baby boomers who started the SS system ( I take it that is what you are talking about )
the baby boomers paid in to that system at a higher rate of FICA taxes.
it has always been a pay as you go system and over the years had and still has a large surplus that the government forced to be put in government bonds that nobody but the Government could buy. then they took that surplus and used it to keep the deficits down
a lot of that surplus was from the baby boomers paying into that fund and they are entitled to get their money back
Have a nice day

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Well said. And the SS Trustees have said they're not like to run surpluses anymore, and will have to cash in some of those bonds; which, of course, ADD to government spending.