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Thread: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    When it comes to medicare..yes they need it. Its just not feasible to have a policy on a 76 year old that has heart problems. Way too much risk as a primary insurance for the insurance company.

    I can answer that question. Would you rather pay payroll tax or keep the cash. I would rather pay payroll tax because I get more back from my customers from their social security.

    Now.. would all rich say that? Perhaps not... but then I know multi millionaires that grouse about welfare and while they benefit from building low income housing and getting housing payments directly from the government. And meanwhile.. having their property managers encourage their renters to sign up for government programs that will put in new windows, water heaters and upgrade lighting in THEIR RENTALS.

    Or multimillionaires that grouse about welfare... while showing me the 350,000 dollar pivot they just got courtesy of a government program check.
    No, the rich dont need medicare. They have money. That they take advantage of every dollar they are owed is a different idea.
    Last edited by jonny5; 10-17-19 at 09:08 AM.

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Who View Post
    Just asking why and why not?
    SS should be out of the question. It is already paid for. I'm open to ideas about using a sales tax to help pay for healthcare, but not for a single payer government run operation, which probably eliminates most ideas. But, I do like the idea that if everyone gets healthcare then everyone pays for it and I wouldn't care how regressive the left would try to claim it is. In fact, I would argue that if the poor are going to use healthcare more then they should pay more for it.

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    SS should be out of the question. It is already paid for. I'm open to ideas about using a sales tax to help pay for healthcare, but not for a single payer government run operation, which probably eliminates most ideas. But, I do like the idea that if everyone gets healthcare then everyone pays for it and I wouldn't care how regressive the left would try to claim it is. In fact, I would argue that if the poor are going to use healthcare more then they should pay more for it.
    SS isnt paid for. It will run a deficit this year and only get worse.

    B. LONG-RANGE ESTIMATES

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    SS isnt paid for. It will run a deficit this year and only get worse.

    B. LONG-RANGE ESTIMATES
    SS IS paid for. It doesn't actually run out of money for years and there are many easy fixes.

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    SS isnt paid for. It will run a deficit this year and only get worse.

    B. LONG-RANGE ESTIMATES
    SS has a 1.7 Trillion dollar trust fund that has been " borrowed " by the US government
    because they passed a law years ago that made it where the surplus from the money the SS system took in had to go into Government bonds that nobody else could buy
    that 1.7 Trillion dollars is part of our debt because we " borrowed " it and we have to pay it back
    Have a nice day

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    SS IS paid for. It doesn't actually run out of money for years and there are many easy fixes.
    When its fixed then itll be paid for. But as it owes trillions more than it expects to collect in even the long range, it isnt paid for.

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbird19482 View Post
    SS has a 1.7 Trillion dollar trust fund that has been " borrowed " by the US government
    because they passed a law years ago that made it where the surplus from the money the SS system took in had to go into Government bonds that nobody else could buy
    that 1.7 Trillion dollars is part of our debt because we " borrowed " it and we have to pay it back
    Have a nice day
    Hence why it isnt paid for. The 'trust fund' was spent. And even if that money was paid back, it would soon be back in defict again. Promised liabilities are in the hundreds of trillions.

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    When its fixed then itll be paid for. But as it owes trillions more than it expects to collect in even the long range, it isnt paid for.
    It's paid for now. You're talking about the future.

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Hence why it isnt paid for. The 'trust fund' was spent. And even if that money was paid back, it would soon be back in defict again. Promised liabilities are in the hundreds of trillions.
    Why isn't it paid off??
    Ask your Congressmen and Senators
    The way it was set up was that any surplus funds taken in from the FICA tax had to be invested in " Secure " Government bonds that nobody else could buy
    these bonds give very little ROI and were used to keep the deficits down and was put on the debt and has to be paid back.
    when The Republicans and anybody else calls the SS system an ENTITLEMENT program in a way they are right we paid into it for years and years and we are entitled to get our money back
    It is NOT an entitlement program in the way they imply like welfare and medicaid
    IF that money was paid back and invested in secure bonds or something it could get a lot higher ROL then it gets now and the fund would be funded for many more years
    and IF they raised the FICA tax back up to where it use to be it would have more revenue and a larger surplus then it has now
    when I worked I paid the higher rate for almost 50 years
    so as I said it is an entitlement program in the way we are entitled to get our money back
    have a nice day

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    Re: Can we pay for healthcare and SS with sales tax?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tbird19482 View Post
    The Republicans and anybody else calls the SS system an ENTITLEMENT program in a way they are right we paid into it for years and years and we are entitled to get our money back
    The supremes have ruled you are not entitled to get anything back. From here:


    Quote Originally Posted by socialsecurity.gov

    The fact that workers contribute to the Social Security program's funding through a dedicated payroll tax establishes a unique connection between those tax payments and future benefits. More so than general federal income taxes can be said to establish "rights" to certain government services. This is often expressed in the idea that Social Security benefits are "an earned right." This is true enough in a moral and political sense. But like all federal entitlement programs, Congress can change the rules regarding eligibility--and it has done so many times over the years. The rules can be made more generous, or they can be made more restrictive. Benefits which are granted at one time can be withdrawn, as for example with student benefits, which were substantially scaled-back in the 1983 Amendments.

    There has been a temptation throughout the program's history for some people to suppose that their FICA payroll taxes entitle them to a benefit in a legal, contractual sense. That is to say, if a person makes FICA contributions over a number of years, Congress cannot, according to this reasoning, change the rules in such a way that deprives a contributor of a promised future benefit. Under this reasoning, benefits under Social Security could probably only be increased, never decreased, if the Act could be amended at all. Congress clearly had no such limitation in mind when crafting the law. Section 1104 of the 1935 Act, entitled "RESERVATION OF POWER," specifically said: "The right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of this Act is hereby reserved to the Congress." Even so, some have thought that this reservation was in some way unconstitutional. This is the issue finally settled by Flemming v. Nestor.

    In this 1960 Supreme Court decision Nestor's denial of benefits was upheld even though he had contributed to the program for 19 years and was already receiving benefits. Under a 1954 law, Social Security benefits were denied to persons deported for, among other things, having been a member of the Communist party. Accordingly, Mr. Nestor's benefits were terminated. He appealed the termination arguing, among other claims, that promised Social Security benefits were a contract and that Congress could not renege on that contract. In its ruling, the Court rejected this argument and established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits is not contractual right.
    Social Security is nothing more than a welfare program funded by a payroll tax.

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