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Budget deficit smashes $1 trillion mark, the highest in seven years

How can it not implement the fiscal policies enacted by Congress, with monetary policy? You forget or omit, that Treasury is the interface.

Not everything that the Fed does is "monetary policy." Sometimes, they just act like a bank, as when the Treasury issues bonds and the government spends. Those actions don't advance any monetary policies.
 
isn't it time to get back to what this thread is about?
Budget deficit smashes $1 trillion mark, the highest in seven years
Trump is running up the deficit / debt even more then Obama did.
I remember Trump saying he was going to cut the debt and the deficit what happened?
fact is in the first two years of Trump the debt has gone up MORE then it did in 5 out of the 8 years Obama was in office
Have a nice evening
 
isn't it time to get back to what this thread is about?
Budget deficit smashes $1 trillion mark, the highest in seven years
Trump is running up the deficit / debt even more then Obama did.
I remember Trump saying he was going to cut the debt and the deficit what happened?
fact is in the first two years of Trump the debt has gone up MORE then it did in 5 out of the 8 years Obama was in office
Have a nice evening

Those are the facts.

We have elected a fraud and conman to the presidency. That's an opinion, but it's supported by the facts. Another fact to support that opinion: No other president has been successfully sued for fraud. Trump has.
 
isn't it time to get back to what this thread is about?
Budget deficit smashes $1 trillion mark, the highest in seven years
Trump is running up the deficit / debt even more then Obama did.
I remember Trump saying he was going to cut the debt and the deficit what happened?
fact is in the first two years of Trump the debt has gone up MORE then it did in 5 out of the 8 years Obama was in office
Have a nice evening

I tried pages ago to bring this back to the subject... but honestly "fiscal conservative" Republicans are only interested in talking about this when the other guy is in charge.
 
I tried pages ago to bring this back to the subject... but honestly "fiscal conservative" Republicans are only interested in talking about this when the other guy is in charge.

Fiscal conservatism is dead.

tombstone.jpg
 
Fiscal conservatism is dead.

At the risk of derailing this conversation, I am not entirely sure we can even agree on what fiscal responsibility is no matter one's political leans.
 
At the risk of derailing this conversation, I am not entirely sure we can even agree on what fiscal responsibility is no matter one's political leans.

I question the whole forum. The whole thing is built upon the assumption that the national debt is a bad thing.
 
I question the whole forum. The whole thing is built upon the assumption that the national debt is a bad thing.

I think it is a matter of degree, like water. You need it to live but too much is fatal.
 
I question the whole forum. The whole thing is built upon the assumption that the national debt is a bad thing.

And for me, out here on an island of my own, the whole thing is based on economic reason for the government to tax and spend. Deficit or Surplus is just the result of those parts, meaning the reason for trends in debt additions going up or down ends up a judgement of fiscal policy addressing wherever we are in the economic cycle.

Which is why I am so harsh on Republicans increasing deficits at the worst possible time (i.e. the subject of this thread.)
 
At the risk of derailing this conversation, I am not entirely sure we can even agree on what fiscal responsibility is no matter one's political leans.

In a purely objective sense sans its historical meaning to conservatives, it means prudence, pragmatism, effectiveness, efficiency and balancing spending with tax revenues to mimic what most of us think good microeconomic practices mean for individuals or companies. In practice it means starving the beast to benefit the rich over the rest of us.
 
In a purely objective sense sans its historical meaning to conservatives, it means prudence, pragmatism, effectiveness, efficiency and balancing spending with tax revenues to mimic what most of us think good microeconomic practices mean for individuals or companies. In practice it means starving the beast to benefit the rich over the rest of us.

That is one way to evaluate it, I would agree.

Where I tend to see this is how the typical conservative (or Republican, or Libertarian, or whatever else) views economic participation. Pick your poison between the usual conclusions by that lean in economics but they are generally talking about the protection of ownership and accumulation (wealth) to the point of excess and economic fault, the socialization of private loss to the point of the very government fiscal debt they claim to be against going up quickly, and even the purposeful economic suppression of the lower income quintiles to the point of unhealthy economic participation and extreme negative social consequences.

When Republicans are in charge the fiscal direction of the nation this is amplified to the negative, and it often results in unnecessary risk to the point of bubble and pop economics as well as vulture capitalism.

The point of this thread though is what Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress did with the fiscal direction of this nation. Trump argues that this is a "great great... amazing economy... best we've ever had" then decides the next move is to amplify deficits to the point of going back to the $Trillion mark, accelerate additions to Total Debt via Debt held by the Public, and ultimately watch the Treasury break a few auctions along the way just to deal with all of this.

There was neither fiscal or economic reason to do what they did, and the gift was political in nature.

When we experience the next issue with aggregate demand in our economy (that we are well overdue to see) we will be doing so sitting on $Trillion deficits *going into* that condition whatever the fault ends up being, which makes today's Republicans and their supporters the most dangerous influence on our fiscal condition since Bush 43 and enabling Republicans in the 107th and 108th Congress took the guardrails off of what was left of financial risk protections... and just a few short years later... disaster.
 
That is one way to evaluate it, I would agree.

Where I tend to see this is how the typical conservative (or Republican, or Libertarian, or whatever else) views economic participation. Pick your poison between the usual conclusions by that lean in economics but they are generally talking about the protection of ownership and accumulation (wealth) to the point of excess and economic fault, the socialization of private loss to the point of the very government fiscal debt they claim to be against going up quickly, and even the purposeful economic suppression of the lower income quintiles to the point of unhealthy economic participation and extreme negative social consequences.

When Republicans are in charge the fiscal direction of the nation this is amplified to the negative, and it often results in unnecessary risk to the point of bubble and pop economics as well as vulture capitalism.

The point of this thread though is what Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress did with the fiscal direction of this nation. Trump argues that this is a "great great... amazing economy... best we've ever had" then decides the next move is to amplify deficits to the point of going back to the $Trillion mark, accelerate additions to Total Debt via Debt held by the Public, and ultimately watch the Treasury break a few auctions along the way just to deal with all of this.

There was neither fiscal or economic reason to do what they did, and the gift was political in nature.

When we experience the next issue with aggregate demand in our economy (that we are well overdue to see) we will be doing so sitting on $Trillion deficits *going into* that condition whatever the fault ends up being, which makes today's Republicans and their supporters the most dangerous influence on our fiscal condition since Bush 43 and enabling Republicans in the 107th and 108th Congress took the guardrails off of what was left of financial risk protections... and just a few short years later... disaster.

I merely pointed out the obvious. The term was created to give political cover to those who hated taxes and the New Deal. The rest of it is just more bull on top of the rest of the bull.
 
Obama's first 3 years were all more than this.

Takes money to fix past issues.

Obama's first 3 years had little to do with Obama - and everything to do with Bush leaving a house on fire.
 
That is one way to evaluate it, I would agree.

Where I tend to see this is how the typical conservative (or Republican, or Libertarian, or whatever else) views economic participation. Pick your poison between the usual conclusions by that lean in economics but they are generally talking about the protection of ownership and accumulation (wealth) to the point of excess and economic fault, the socialization of private loss to the point of the very government fiscal debt they claim to be against going up quickly, and even the purposeful economic suppression of the lower income quintiles to the point of unhealthy economic participation and extreme negative social consequences.

When Republicans are in charge the fiscal direction of the nation this is amplified to the negative, and it often results in unnecessary risk to the point of bubble and pop economics as well as vulture capitalism.

The point of this thread though is what Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress did with the fiscal direction of this nation. Trump argues that this is a "great great... amazing economy... best we've ever had" then decides the next move is to amplify deficits to the point of going back to the $Trillion mark, accelerate additions to Total Debt via Debt held by the Public, and ultimately watch the Treasury break a few auctions along the way just to deal with all of this.

There was neither fiscal or economic reason to do what they did, and the gift was political in nature.

When we experience the next issue with aggregate demand in our economy (that we are well overdue to see) we will be doing so sitting on $Trillion deficits *going into* that condition whatever the fault ends up being, which makes today's Republicans and their supporters the most dangerous influence on our fiscal condition since Bush 43 and enabling Republicans in the 107th and 108th Congress took the guardrails off of what was left of financial risk protections... and just a few short years later... disaster.
Again I would like to remind the people out here many on the right , that they cried and cried when Obama drove the debt up, and now that Trump has taken over both his first two fiscal years he has run the debt up MORE then Obama did in 5 out of the 8 years he was in office, and the three years Obama ran it up more were mostly due to the great Recession.
Trump said he was going to cut the debt and in his first two fiscal years under a Republican Congress he has run it up even more.
it is time for a Balanced Budget amendment with some real teeth in it so we can NOT spend more then we take in ( only in time of war , another great recession / Depression could we spend more then we take in ) and maybe a national sales tax of 1 % to be used to pay off the debt ( with NO deductions for anybody , we all got a benefit from the debt so we all should help pay it off even large Corps )
and when the debt is paid off the sales tax would be suspended and could ONLY be reinstated if we had to run a debt because of a war or recession / depression
Have a nice day
 
Again I would like to remind the people out here many on the right , that they cried and cried when Obama drove the debt up, and now that Trump has taken over both his first two fiscal years he has run the debt up MORE then Obama did in 5 out of the 8 years he was in office, and the three years Obama ran it up more were mostly due to the great Recession.
Trump said he was going to cut the debt and in his first two fiscal years under a Republican Congress he has run it up even more.
it is time for a Balanced Budget amendment with some real teeth in it so we can NOT spend more then we take in ( only in time of war , another great recession / Depression could we spend more then we take in ) and maybe a national sales tax of 1 % to be used to pay off the debt ( with NO deductions for anybody , we all got a benefit from the debt so we all should help pay it off even large Corps )
and when the debt is paid off the sales tax would be suspended and could ONLY be reinstated if we had to run a debt because of a war or recession / depression
Have a nice day

Instead of waging a trade war, we could have used that money to upgrade infrastructure.
 
Again I would like to remind the people out here many on the right , that they cried and cried when Obama drove the debt up, and now that Trump has taken over both his first two fiscal years he has run the debt up MORE then Obama did in 5 out of the 8 years he was in office, and the three years Obama ran it up more were mostly due to the great Recession.
Trump said he was going to cut the debt and in his first two fiscal years under a Republican Congress he has run it up even more.
it is time for a Balanced Budget amendment with some real teeth in it so we can NOT spend more then we take in ( only in time of war , another great recession / Depression could we spend more then we take in ) and maybe a national sales tax of 1 % to be used to pay off the debt ( with NO deductions for anybody , we all got a benefit from the debt so we all should help pay it off even large Corps )
and when the debt is paid off the sales tax would be suspended and could ONLY be reinstated if we had to run a debt because of a war or recession / depression
Have a nice day

I cannot comment for our friends on the right.

However because of economic conditions at the time of the 2007-2008 collapse it made perfect sense for the government to spend as they are the only part of the GDP math that can spend when there is such fault with aggregate demand. Obama and associated Congresses did not wake up one morning and debt spend for no reason, after that kind of collapse of our financial system and real estate valuations there was no other alternative and it went so far as to see the Fed have to remove toxic assets from the market be it temporary.

Our issue is the same.

I am not going to say that our "recovery" was all roses and sunshine for every participant in the economy, however there was sustained growth year to year post the collapse and some of that credit goes to both fiscal and monetary policy deploying the tools you would think should be used to deal with all those faults. If anything, we can show that deficits started to drop more consistently once Obama started to face a split Congress then 2 terms worth of Republican Congresses. No one really got all of what they wanted and revenues started to get closer to outlays until that pivotal FY2015 to FY2016 mark where conditions changed headed right into the 2016 election cycle.

My concern is still what Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress did, handed out a gift and we immediately saw what the outlook was headed right to $Trillion dollar deficits and record auctions by the Treasury just as we approach the next recession. If the economy was doing so well that move was the worst of fiscal irresponsibility.

Your point though is monumentally worse.

Any Balanced Budget Amendment (which is a pipe dream anyway - when was the last time Congress limited themselves?) is devoid of basic economics. The discussion above is why, government spending (and to a degree taxation) is the only counterbalance our economy has when dealing with aggregate demand fault of really any kind. The economic cycle is not just two stages of 'things are well' then 'recession / Depression.' In fact to argue that accidentally argues bubble and pop economics because you impede fiscal policy to react to economic indication whereas monetary policy will react anyway. If those are not at least moderately in sync on intention, fiscal policy and monetary policy (and even trade policy,) then we end up waiting for Congress to decide on even more.

And if we have learned anything, Congress has proven themselves to not be very good at handling economics. A Balanced Budget Amendment would amplify our problem and wait for every economic "pop" for them to so something way too late in the game.

As for paying off our national debt, why do we need to do that?
 
That is one of the things Trump said he wanted to do.

He also wanted a wall paid for by Mexico.
and in the two years Trump has been in office he has run up the debt MORE then Obama
in both of Trumps 2 fiscal years he has run the debt up MORE then Obama did in 5 out of the 8 years he was in office
in fact there are several of Obama's years you can add together and they would NOT be as big as either of Trumps first two fiscal years
Have a nice day
 
I cannot comment for our friends on the right.

However because of economic conditions at the time of the 2007-2008 collapse it made perfect sense for the government to spend as they are the only part of the GDP math that can spend when there is such fault with aggregate demand. Obama and associated Congresses did not wake up one morning and debt spend for no reason, after that kind of collapse of our financial system and real estate valuations there was no other alternative and it went so far as to see the Fed have to remove toxic assets from the market be it temporary.

Our issue is the same.

I am not going to say that our "recovery" was all roses and sunshine for every participant in the economy, however there was sustained growth year to year post the collapse and some of that credit goes to both fiscal and monetary policy deploying the tools you would think should be used to deal with all those faults. If anything, we can show that deficits started to drop more consistently once Obama started to face a split Congress then 2 terms worth of Republican Congresses. No one really got all of what they wanted and revenues started to get closer to outlays until that pivotal FY2015 to FY2016 mark where conditions changed headed right into the 2016 election cycle.

My concern is still what Trump and Republicans in the 115th Congress did, handed out a gift and we immediately saw what the outlook was headed right to $Trillion dollar deficits and record auctions by the Treasury just as we approach the next recession. If the economy was doing so well that move was the worst of fiscal irresponsibility.

Your point though is monumentally worse.

Any Balanced Budget Amendment (which is a pipe dream anyway - when was the last time Congress limited themselves?) is devoid of basic economics. The discussion above is why, government spending (and to a degree taxation) is the only counterbalance our economy has when dealing with aggregate demand fault of really any kind. The economic cycle is not just two stages of 'things are well' then 'recession / Depression.' In fact to argue that accidentally argues bubble and pop economics because you impede fiscal policy to react to economic indication whereas monetary policy will react anyway. If those are not at least moderately in sync on intention, fiscal policy and monetary policy (and even trade policy,) then we end up waiting for Congress to decide on even more.

And if we have learned anything, Congress has proven themselves to not be very good at handling economics. A Balanced Budget Amendment would amplify our problem and wait for every economic "pop" for them to so something way too late in the game.

As for paying off our national debt, why do we need to do that?

Because, that means it takes the socialism of Government spending not free markets to correct our economy. Government solves all problems for the right wing, "but they hate socialism".

Paying off our national debt makes more sense if we can use the money otherwise servicing the debt, for the public Good such as infrastructure or social safety nets.
 
[h=1]Budget deficit smashes $1 trillion mark, the highest in seven years[/h]
Are we great again yet?

Just like many of us said, the tax-cuts contributed to lower revenue that contributed to the higher deficit. Also, this puts to rest the myth that Democrats are the big spenders, as higher spending occurred when the Republicans were in full control.

Neither side gives a ****, it's only the typical & usual hypocrites on here claiming that their stink isn't as bad as the other sides stink.
 
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