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Thread: Is being in debt a good thing?

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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    So long as you're making good on repaying it, yes.
    The question is when do you start on repaying it the government that is . cause out here if you don't pay there will be consequences.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    The question is when do you start on repaying it the government that is . cause out here if you don't pay there will be consequences.
    The government making restitution? That's called taxes and inflation. They make sure you pay it one way or the other. They sure as hell aren't.
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Wealth is not limited to cash , but ya gotta admit if you are a working person with a could paying job cash really comes in handy around when those bills come to your door and on April 15th.. That national park system is very beautiful just visited one myself , but no matter how beautiful it is it don't pay the rent.
    Visitors to National Parks spent an estimated $18.2 billion in local gateway regions (defined as communities within 60 miles of a park). The contribution of this spending to the national economy was 306 thousand jobs, $11.9 billion in labor income, $20.3 billion in value added, and $35.8 billion in economic output.

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    In the 60's during the space race I could have discussed outer space with you , however today since they did cut NASA funding I guess I'll wait till another country goes to another planet. I say this not because I have anything against the U.S.A.. I love my country but where is the progress where are the risk takers of America today.
    In the private sector, where they belong.

    Without going on countering you indefinitely, you need to open your eyes to see.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    It seems that your premise of "actual economist" asking the right questions neglected to ask a most unpopular question. Since I am at least I think so an individual nonconformist I will ask this unpopular question.
    Since America is supposedly a Superpower why is it other nations and "not all bad nations" of the world have free Colleges paid for by the money the nation takes in.? These nations base intellectual education on the intelligence one has not the money one's parents has.

    We have been on this action of College education for some time now where is America today debt wise educated wise?
    Apologies for the late reply, unsure how I missed this.

    What other nations have done with the costs of higher education is another matter, those nations shifting the costs onto the taxpayer is their decision to make. There were benefits to those choices and probably consequences as well.

    Our discussion seems to center on higher education debt.

    What I am trying to say is while your points are valid, the fault is not just "predatory lenders" and these kids taking out these loans. It took a concerted effort to get to this point over a period of time, it is too simplistic and a bit political argument over substance that this can be changed rapidly.

    Just to ensure I am straight, what are we really debating here?
    "Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It's just ganging up against the weird kid, and I'm always the weird kid." - Penn Jillette.

  5. #55
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    in July 2013 I posted a thread called "America Land of Debt". I got some interesting responses on that thread some said being in debt is not bad , some said being in debt is just a way of doing business,.
    I did not agree with these responses then neither do I agree with then today .
    Well, I will likely say the same things you've heard before....

    There is nothing wrong with debt, as long as:
    1) You borrow for a useful purpose
    2) You don't borrow more than you can pay back

    Things haven't actually changed much since 2013. Post-secondary education has gotten a little more expensive, and that's pretty much it. Millennials have felt the bite for years now.

    Yes, it impacts spending, but it would be rather ignorant to blame that primarily on credit. A bigger factor is that income inequality has increased for several decades now, as has our standard of living. Thus, it is extremely difficult to earn a middle-class income with only a high school degree, and college graduates are also feeling the strain. This drives demand for post-secondary degrees, which results in more people borrowing more money just to try and keep up.

    The ability to borrow money to pay for a home, a car or an education is a huge benefit. The US would be much worse off without 30-year mortgages or college loans. The real issue is that the wealthy are reaping all the economic benefits of 40+ years of productivity gains, and that can't work forever.
    "Everyone should listen to me all the time about everything." - Rosa Diaz

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  6. #56
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    The government making restitution? That's called taxes and inflation. They make sure you pay it one way or the other. They sure as hell aren't.
    I could not debate that, I would lose.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Visitors to National Parks spent an estimated $18.2 billion in local gateway regions (defined as communities within 60 miles of a park). The contribution of this spending to the national economy was 306 thousand jobs, $11.9 billion in labor income, $20.3 billion in value added, and $35.8 billion in economic output.



    In the private sector, where they belong.

    Without going on countering you indefinitely, you need to open your eyes to see.
    First of all it is true the National parks is making money there are jobs just as long as they stay National parks, that is government land public land not private land.

    As for my eyesight with the help of glasses I see quite well , everybody keeps saying America has all this money and is making more every year.
    However, if that is true why did we have to cut certain services that the government did provide and why are we deeper in deb than last year or last decade.
    Perhaps although being an optimistic
    , I am also somewhat of a realistic as well. Fact; America is roughly $25 trillion in debt, Fact;America owes China 1.5 billion , So don't pop the champagne corps just yet.
    As for the private sector what does the American taxpayer give to them Tax Cuts for paying tax cuts , research grants and a golden parachute called BAILOUT if they should run into some red ink.
    What do the taxpayers get in return more jobs NO Higher wages NO, lower prices uhh NO, Now I'm not talking about the investors yeah they get a peice of taxpayer money , but not everybody out here in America owns stocks ,as a matter of fact if you research that you will find the majority of Americans don't own stocks .

    In your post you said I should open my eyes , my eyes are open , to you I say take off the rose colored glasses and see the real America.
    Tiki bar regular.
    My code, never take anything for granted always expect the unexpexted.
    Never take anything you don't need ,never want anything you can't have

  8. #58
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Apologies for the late reply, unsure how I missed this.

    What other nations have done with the costs of higher education is another matter, those nations shifting the costs onto the taxpayer is their decision to make. There were benefits to those choices and probably consequences as well.

    Our discussion seems to center on higher education debt.

    What I am trying to say is while your points are valid, the fault is not just "predatory lenders" and these kids taking out these loans. It took a concerted effort to get to this point over a period of time, it is too simplistic and a bit political argument over substance that this can be changed rapidly.

    Just to ensure I am straight, what are we really debating here?
    Frankly I do not know what we are debating about , I thought it was more of a discussion.

    Basically I agree with most of you post but 1 point I would like to bring up.

    You say in your post something about a higher education debt..t there are still problems with public education . After all if more of your money is going to education you should something out of it like smarter students a more intellectual generation so maybe there should be an investigation and there have been they investigate teachers , they investigate schools many teachers walked because of salary and bargaining rights taken away in Wisconsin 3 good schools were closed in Michigan to save money .
    However the one entity that has not been investigated is the Board of Education at least not to my knowledge I could be wrong but I researched I could not find anything current the last I could find was the Spokes Darwin trial sometime back, and that was more of religion vs Darwinism
    Tiki bar regular.
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    Never take anything you don't need ,never want anything you can't have

  9. #59
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Well, I will likely say the same things you've heard before....

    There is nothing wrong with debt, as long as:
    1) You borrow for a useful purpose
    2) You don't borrow more than you can pay back

    Things haven't actually changed much since 2013. Post-secondary education has gotten a little more expensive, and that's pretty much it. Millennials have felt the bite for years now.

    Yes, it impacts spending, but it would be rather ignorant to blame that primarily on credit. A bigger factor is that income inequality has increased for several decades now, as has our standard of living. Thus, it is extremely difficult to earn a middle-class income with only a high school degree, and college graduates are also feeling the strain. This drives demand for post-secondary degrees, which results in more people borrowing more money just to try and keep up.

    The ability to borrow money to pay for a home, a car or an education is a huge benefit. The US would be much worse off without 30-year mortgages or college loans. The real issue is that the wealthy are reaping all the economic benefits of 40+ years of productivity gains, and that can't work forever.
    I agree with most of your post you do make some good points.
    However, if you would glance at my code "Never take what you don't need , Never want what you can't have"
    Most of people I know are on a very strict budget and everything they get is usually paid for in cash only loan is the mortgage and maybe $300 on an emergency credit card. These are my friends none of which lives as they say very expensive with big house new car, no most are just a 2 bedroom small house and a 9 maybe 10 yr old car.
    However I am as one might say of the older generation I was keeping track of how the younger or middle age lived but after 2000 they kinda went all over the place I couldn't keep up.
    However, after the dust settled it's pretty much the same deal some people were shouting at the average citizens in 2008 "don't live beyond your means " pull yourself up by your bootstings " and after that they same people say to the taxpayers some private corporations have some red ink they need 740 million dollars. lol

    AsI said in another post I really don't understand nor agree with Millennials lifestyle but between the student loan , the competition in the workplace and living while you are trying to find a good job can't be easy they is also something else that they have to deal with as well as us in the retirement vicinity Property taxes some politicians may say no new taxes but they are wrong Ohio where I live just passed a tax of .18 cents a gallon on Gas our property taxes went up last year .
    So balancing a budget in this day and age I would suggest a calculator or maybe even a slide rule .lol
    Tiki bar regular.
    My code, never take anything for granted always expect the unexpexted.
    Never take anything you don't need ,never want anything you can't have

  10. #60
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    Re: Is being in debt a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Well, I will likely say the same things you've heard before....

    There is nothing wrong with debt, as long as:
    1) You borrow for a useful purpose
    2) You don't borrow more than you can pay back

    Things haven't actually changed much since 2013. Post-secondary education has gotten a little more expensive, and that's pretty much it. Millennials have felt the bite for years now.

    Yes, it impacts spending, but it would be rather ignorant to blame that primarily on credit. A bigger factor is that income inequality has increased for several decades now, as has our standard of living. Thus, it is extremely difficult to earn a middle-class income with only a high school degree, and college graduates are also feeling the strain. This drives demand for post-secondary degrees, which results in more people borrowing more money just to try and keep up.

    The ability to borrow money to pay for a home, a car or an education is a huge benefit. The US would be much worse off without 30-year mortgages or college loans. The real issue is that the wealthy are reaping all the economic benefits of 40+ years of productivity gains, and that can't work forever.
    I agree with most of your post you do make some good points.
    However, if you would glance at my code "Never take what you don't need , Never want what you can't have"
    Most of people I know are on a very strict budget and everything they get is usually paid for in cash only loan is the mortgage and maybe $300 on an emergency credit card. These are my friends none of which lives as they say very expensive with big house new car, no most are just a 2 bedroom small house and a 9 maybe 10 yr old car.
    However I am as one might say of the older generation I was keeping track of how the younger or middle age lived but after 2000 they kinda went all over the place I couldn't keep up.
    However, after the dust settled it's pretty much the same deal some people were shouting at the average citizens in 2008 "don't live beyond your means " pull yourself up by your bootstings " and after that they same people say to the taxpayers some private corporations have some red ink they need 740 million dollars. lol

    AsI said in another post I really don't understand nor agree with Millennials lifestyle but between the student loan , the competition in the workplace and living while you are trying to find a good job can't be easy they is also something else that they have to deal with as well as us in the retirement vicinity Property taxes some politicians may say no new taxes but they are wrong Ohio where I live just passed a tax of .18 cents a gallon on Gas our property taxes went up last year .
    So balancing a budget in this day and age I would suggest a calculator or maybe even a slide rule .lol
    Tiki bar regular.
    My code, never take anything for granted always expect the unexpexted.
    Never take anything you don't need ,never want anything you can't have

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