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Thread: government walls and spending

  1. #21
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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Inflation, but we are broke in the sense that we spend more than we "make" and we have a lot of debt.
    So we spend more than we are worth. When I bought my house I only had few thousand in the bank but borrowed 20 times that. Then I bought a truck and borrowed even more while in debt 20 times what I was worth. It is not spending that is the problem. It is what you are buying that is. Securing our border is a worthwhile expense the same as a doors and walls on your house. Witch hunts over losing the election is wasted money.
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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadinho View Post
    We have created trillions upon trillions of new money in the last 40 years, inflation is no where to be found. At some point, the fear of inflation will have to be tempered with the continued absence of inflation despite massive increases in the money supply. I understand that inflation is taught in standard economics classes as the dreaded outcome of money expansion but its time to throw that idea out the window for a nation like ours. It simply has nothing to do with the money supply at all.
    Inflation is huge and wipes out people's savings plus reduces relative wages. Debt spending causes a greater lose in inflation.

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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by PIPEWRENCH View Post
    So we spend more than we are worth. When I bought my house I only had few thousand in the bank but borrowed 20 times that. Then I bought a truck and borrowed even more while in debt 20 times what I was worth. It is not spending that is the problem. It is what you are buying that is. Securing our border is a worthwhile expense the same as a doors and walls on your house. Witch hunts over losing the election is wasted money.
    We dont spend more than we are worth, but rather more than we can afford, which means borrowing. Which of course brings all sorts of problems.

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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by memberya2 View Post
    america complains they are broke but instead we spend all the money in the wrong places, giving money to other countries, but instead of helping our own people i thought thats what we were trying to do "america first" we spend so much in the military and scared that if we take 1 dollar out that we will be defenseless, we dont have enough money but we have enough for a wall?
    I agree that we spend far too much on the military, (about 1 trillion total) and also spend too much on foreign aid. We spend about 50 billion on foreign aid which is 1% of the budget, but every little cut counts.

    The cost of the wall is estimated to be 25-70 billion to construct with a few billion in maintenance every year. However, compare to that the 116 billion the government spends on illegals per year, and that doesn't include border enforcement and deportations. Half of illegals come over illegally by visa, but Trump is making that harder already, and another half comes across the border, which a wall will discourage.

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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadinho View Post
    We have created trillions upon trillions of new money in the last 40 years, inflation is nowhere to be found. At some point, the fear of inflation will have to be tempered with the continued absence of inflation despite massive increases in the money supply. I understand that inflation is taught in standard economics classes as the dreaded outcome of money expansion but its time to throw that idea out the window for a nation like ours. It simply has nothing to do with the money supply at all.
    Except for the recent crisis and a brief period in the early 1980s, the primary instrument through which monetary policy was managed in the United States was the Feds Funds Rate. In mainstream economic models, usually, you have a Taylor rule capturing the behavior of the central bank and it defines a nominal interest rate for the economy. The standard view is that a credible monetary authority will control inflation through its interest rate in normal times and that money supply is just along for the ride.

    If you go for abnormal circumstances, equally typical macroeconomic models would say it's very hard to get inflation to spike rapidly at the ZLB. The difference between what, say, Paul Krugman predicted and what Peter Schiff predicted is that Krugman didn't stop following the literature in 1959.

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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by memberya2 View Post
    america complains they are broke but instead we spend all the money in the wrong places, giving money to other countries, but instead of helping our own people i thought thats what we were trying to do "america first" we spend so much in the military and scared that if we take 1 dollar out that we will be defenseless, we dont have enough money but we have enough for a wall?
    DHS, ICE and Border Patrol have all stated the wall works and is a positive. The wall is a priority. It would help if Gavin Newsom CA would stay home and stop encouraging El Salvador to send their people here. Gavin, stay home and clean up SF and LA.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by distraff View Post
    I agree that we spend far too much on the military, (about 1 trillion total) and also spend too much on foreign aid. We spend about 50 billion on foreign aid which is 1% of the budget, but every little cut counts.

    The cost of the wall is estimated to be 25-70 billion to construct with a few billion in maintenance every year. However, compare to that the 116 billion the government spends on illegals per year, and that doesn't include border enforcement and deportations. Half of illegals come over illegally by visa, but Trump is making that harder already, and another half comes across the border, which a wall will discourage.
    The problem is that 70 billion plus maintenance doesn't appreciably reduce illegal immigration. The last figure I've seen for the effectiveness of unmanned border walls was about 4%. A wall basically keeps out only the elderly and infirm who can't climb ladders and can't get into the country legally and overstay their visas. In fact, it is entirely possible for illegal immigration to increase after the construction of a wall. Why? Because the ease with which one can get into the country is not the problem: The conditions that illegal immigrants are fleeing are the sole driver of illegal immigration. How can the U.S. solve this problem? There is exactly one solution that has been proven to work: Foreign aid.

    It is an historical irony that those who care most about keeping illegal immigrants from crossing Americas borders don't want to do the one thing that would do the most to prevent illegal immigration: Raising the standard of living in the countries where the immigrants are coming from.

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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Yes, Zimbabwe ran out. They literally had 89,000,000,000,000,000,000% inflation (sextillion). They actually had to stop printing currency because it was worthless. Great example.
    That's not running out of money, though. That's inflation. Big difference.

    You said that the U.S. won't have runaway inflation because we have "strong fundamentals." And you are correct, if your definition of "strong fundamentals" is that we have a diversified economy that can handle more demand.

    The problem is never coming up with enough of your own currency. That should be clear by now. The problem is having enough resources and a diversified economy to meet demand. Venezuela's economy wasn't diversified - they were(are) dependent on imports of food and other necessities. When their export income went down because of oil prices, they could no longer afford to import food, and they couldn't just turn to domestic suppliers to substitute, so they printed to keep their people fed. And Zimbabwe dismantled their profitable agriculture sector; their loss of income put them in the same place.

    What determines whether or not a country is "broke" is whether or not their own economic production can sustain them. Money has little to do with that; it just reflects the situation.
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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    We dont spend more than we are worth, but rather more than we can afford, which means borrowing. Which of course brings all sorts of problems.
    The only reason we are in trouble financially is because we have too many government workers. Government needs to raise taxes for projects and pay private industry to do what needs to be done. It is the pensions of government workers that has broken the back of tax payers. We are paying too many people to do nothing.
    Corruption should be looked into by anyone in a free country without fear of consequences.

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    Re: government walls and spending

    Quote Originally Posted by memberya2 View Post
    america complains they are broke but instead we spend all the money in the wrong places, giving money to other countries, but instead of helping our own people i thought thats what we were trying to do "america first" we spend so much in the military and scared that if we take 1 dollar out that we will be defenseless, we dont have enough money but we have enough for a wall?
    Both are silly. Here we are posturing for war because Iran may or may not have been behind an attack on an oil field of a nation that isn't even a US ally over oil we don't particularly need thanks to fracking (not that I am a fan of fracking, but reality is what it is). I am fine with some fencing in some high traffic places and virtual walling the rest, but we ultimately need to be encouraging economic development in Mexico so the people stay home or stay there at least.

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