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Government default on pension obligations

marke

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Is the Social Security fund running out of funds and is there a danger it could go into default on its obligations? Yes. Several American cities have already defaulted on their pension obligations due to bankruptcy. There are those who think the government cannot possibly default on its obligations, but those people don't know what they are talking about.
 
Is the Social Security fund running out of funds and is there a danger it could go into default on its obligations? Yes. Several American cities have already defaulted on their pension obligations due to bankruptcy. There are those who think the government cannot possibly default on its obligations, but those people don't know what they are talking about.

I appreciate your efforts, I really do.

But in order for there to be a discussion, you will need to provide some factual basis for your foundational argument. You can't always depend on "everyone already knows (or should know) what I am saying is true."

Some examples would help, compare and contrast, tables or studies....something. I mean this as sincere constructive criticism, not to fault you.

In this case, what examples of the cities in default can you offer?
 
Is the Social Security fund running out of funds and is there a danger it could go into default on its obligations? Yes. Several American cities have already defaulted on their pension obligations due to bankruptcy. There are those who think the government cannot possibly default on its obligations, but those people don't know what they are talking about.

Trying to lump far different things together (SS and city employee pension funds) is bad but they are not even as similar as apples and cinder blocks. Laws made are obviously laws which can be changed. While one is obligated to pay FICA taxes there is no similar (corresponding?) obligation for the government to pay any specific level of SS retirement benefits in return for them. It would certainly help if you provided links to back up the assertions (assumptions?) made.
 
Is the Social Security fund running out of funds and is there a danger it could go into default on its obligations? Yes. Several American cities have already defaulted on their pension obligations due to bankruptcy. There are those who think the government cannot possibly default on its obligations, but those people don't know what they are talking about.

Type in ‘California Cities Defaulting’ and search. The first hit I get on Google is a nationwide map. Captain Adverse is correct about bringing links to the OP table.

You may also want to include Veteran’s Pensions and Benefits with Social Security. I’d put city pensions together with STATE pensions and benefits.
 
Is the Social Security fund running out of funds and is there a danger it could go into default on its obligations? Yes. Several American cities have already defaulted on their pension obligations due to bankruptcy. There are those who think the government cannot possibly default on its obligations, but those people don't know what they are talking about.

The federal govt. is completely different than state or local governments. The Feds have a central bank and the ability to create their own currency, and states & cities do not.

You lose all of these debates, and it's not even close. Why do you bother starting new threads on what is basically the same subject?
 
We will run out of money for welfare and food stamps long before we do for social security.
 
We will run out of money for welfare and food stamps long before we do for social security.
Then we we will run out of money for defense before that, since defense is one of the five biggest federal expenditures.

Social Security and Medicare have dedicated taxes. Nothing else do. Even if the SSA trust fund was exhausted, there would still be inflows to pay about 70% of benefits.
 
Lets cut to the core here...

The answer the OP is looking for is 'It's all the democrats fault'.

End of thread..
 
I appreciate your efforts, I really do.

But in order for there to be a discussion, you will need to provide some factual basis for your foundational argument. You can't always depend on "everyone already knows (or should know) what I am saying is true."

Some examples would help, compare and contrast, tables or studies....something. I mean this as sincere constructive criticism, not to fault you.

In this case, what examples of the cities in default can you offer?

What's happening with LA Works' retirees isn't a unique situation. CalPERS, whose pension debt stands at $170 billion, just last year drastically cut pension benefits for retirees who worked for the city of Loyalton. Many other cities, and several states, are struggling to keep their heads above water in the face of runaway pension costs.


Think Public Pensions Can’t Be Cut? Think Again.
 
Is the Social Security fund running out of funds and is there a danger it could go into default on its obligations? Yes. Several American cities have already defaulted on their pension obligations due to bankruptcy. There are those who think the government cannot possibly default on its obligations, but those people don't know what they are talking about.

Your answer is found here: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/TRSUM/2018/tr18summary.pdf
 
Trying to lump far different things together (SS and city employee pension funds) is bad but they are not even as similar as apples and cinder blocks. Laws made are obviously laws which can be changed. While one is obligated to pay FICA taxes there is no similar (corresponding?) obligation for the government to pay any specific level of SS retirement benefits in return for them. It would certainly help if you provided links to back up the assertions (assumptions?) made.

I assume you accept the facts that retirement funds to be paid by the government are in serious trouble. These promised benefits are referred to as unfunded liabilities and the future costs of paying these unfunded liabilities are in the tens of trillions of dollars. Cities, like Detroit, have already been forced to declare bankruptcy and when they do the pensions of retirees from the city are cut drastically.

The social security trust fund is being depleted because current tax receipts are not covering current costs. There seems to be a consensus that the fund will be completely depleted in about 12 years, the same amount of time AOC says global warming will kill us all if we do not spend trillions of American dollars to fight that supposed threat.

Everybody seems also to have an opinion about what will happen when social security runs out of money. So here is another opinion:

The trustees of the Social Security system's finances released their annual report on Wednesday afternoon (July, 2015). They say the combined trust funds that help pay old age and disability benefits are likely to run out by 2034, the year when today's 48-year-olds reach full retirement age.

Social Security: What Happens If the Trust Fund Runs Out in 2034? | Money
 
Type in ‘California Cities Defaulting’ and search. The first hit I get on Google is a nationwide map. Captain Adverse is correct about bringing links to the OP table.

You may also want to include Veteran’s Pensions and Benefits with Social Security. I’d put city pensions together with STATE pensions and benefits.

Too many Americans refuse to believe our economy is in bad shape and that bad policies are continuing to make it worse. They want to spend trillions on global warming, illegal aliens, reparations, college loans and so forth, while cities and states are starting to default on their bills. These kinds of reckless spending increases are very bad for the future of the American economy.

We're left with the question: what happens when California defaults?

The worst case would be the mother of all financial crises. According to the California State Treasurer's office, California has over $68 billion in public debt (2009), but the Sacramento Bee's Dan Walters has tried to count total California public debt, including that of local municipalities, and his total reaches $500 billion.


What Happens When California Defaults? | Newgeography.com
 
Is the Social Security fund running out of funds and is there a danger it could go into default on its obligations? Yes. Several American cities have already defaulted on their pension obligations due to bankruptcy. There are those who think the government cannot possibly default on its obligations, but those people don't know what they are talking about.

You never explained what you were talking about when you referred to 'black standards.' Could you please do so now, so we will know what you meant when you used that term ?
 
I assume you accept the facts that retirement funds to be paid by the government are in serious trouble. These promised benefits are referred to as unfunded liabilities and the future costs of paying these unfunded liabilities are in the tens of trillions of dollars. Cities, like Detroit, have already been forced to declare bankruptcy and when they do the pensions of retirees from the city are cut drastically.

The social security trust fund is being depleted because current tax receipts are not covering current costs. There seems to be a consensus that the fund will be completely depleted in about 12 years, the same amount of time AOC says global warming will kill us all if we do not spend trillions of American dollars to fight that supposed threat.

Everybody seems also to have an opinion about what will happen when social security runs out of money. So here is another opinion:

The trustees of the Social Security system's finances released their annual report on Wednesday afternoon (July, 2015). They say the combined trust funds that help pay old age and disability benefits are likely to run out by 2034, the year when today's 48-year-olds reach full retirement age.

Social Security: What Happens If the Trust Fund Runs Out in 2034? | Money

Hmm... what happened when congress wanted to spend more than tax revenue would support for the last 30 years? Yep, they borrowed more money (used deficit spending to "kick the can down the road") and kept right on spending - see the national debt clock.

IMHO, what will probably happen is that FICA taxes will (eventually) be increased and/or the formula for paying (future?) SS retirees will be "adjusted" (for those retiring after 2034?).
 
Then we we will run out of money for defense before that, since defense is one of the five biggest federal expenditures.

Social Security and Medicare have dedicated taxes. Nothing else do. Even if the SSA trust fund was exhausted, there would still be inflows to pay about 70% of benefits.

OK, but try paying 70% of your rent, grocery or utility bills and see what happens.
 
OK, but try paying 70% of your rent, grocery or utility bills and see what happens.

Why I bring up the trust fund is to repeat that there is no crisis in Social Security’s future. Let's note that Social Security is in a better fiscal position than, let's say, defense, which has no dedicated tax. Likewise, if Social Security is just part of the federal budget, with no budget or trust fund of its own, then, well, it’s just part of the federal budget: there can’t be a Social Security crisis. All you can have is a general budget crisis. Rising Social Security benefit payments might be one reason for that crisis, but it’s hard to make the case that it will be central. That is completely undercut because Social Security does have a trust fund.

The Social Security system won’t be in trouble: it will, in fact, still have a growing trust fund, because of the interest that the trust earns on its accumulated surplus. The only way Social Security gets in trouble is if Congress votes not to honor U.S. government bonds held by Social Security. That isn't going to happen.

Now it’s true that rising benefit costs will be a drag on the federal budget. So will rising Medicare costs. So will the ongoing drain from tax cuts. So will whatever wars we get into. I can’t find a narrative by which Social Security payments, as opposed to other things, become a crucial budgetary problem.

What we really have is a looming crisis in the General Fund. Social Security, with its own dedicated tax, has been run responsibly; the rest of the government has not. So why are we talking about Social Security defaulting?
 
The federal govt. is completely different than state or local governments. The Feds have a central bank and the ability to create their own currency, and states & cities do not.

You lose all of these debates, and it's not even close. Why do you bother starting new threads on what is basically the same subject?

Not even the US government can print its own money to pay its overdue bills. Germany tried that. Venezuela tried that. Bot failed miserably. Printing more money results in hyper inflation, which is why Congress does not look to printing presses to solve budget crises, but to taxation and borrowing money from sources which must be paid back - with interest.

The 2011 downgrade was the first time the US government was given a credit rating below AAA. S&P had announced a negative outlook on the AAA rating in April 2011. The downgrade to AA+ occurred four days after the 112th Congress voted to raise the debt ceiling of the federal government by means of the Budget Control Act of 2011 on August 2, 2011.

United States federal government credit-rating downgrades - Wikipedia

Other nations and the US S&P recognized that the US is not made of money and cannot just print itself out of debt. It must buy itself out of debt with real money that can only be earned by real labor.
 
Why I bring up the trust fund is to repeat that there is no crisis in Social Security’s future. Let's note that Social Security is in a better fiscal position than, let's say, defense, which has no dedicated tax. Likewise, if Social Security is just part of the federal budget, with no budget or trust fund of its own, then, well, it’s just part of the federal budget: there can’t be a Social Security crisis. All you can have is a general budget crisis. Rising Social Security benefit payments might be one reason for that crisis, but it’s hard to make the case that it will be central. That is completely undercut because Social Security does have a trust fund.

The Social Security system won’t be in trouble: it will, in fact, still have a growing trust fund, because of the interest that the trust earns on its accumulated surplus. The only way Social Security gets in trouble is if Congress votes not to honor U.S. government bonds held by Social Security. That isn't going to happen.

Now it’s true that rising benefit costs will be a drag on the federal budget. So will rising Medicare costs. So will the ongoing drain from tax cuts. So will whatever wars we get into. I can’t find a narrative by which Social Security payments, as opposed to other things, become a crucial budgetary problem.

What we really have is a looming crisis in the General Fund. Social Security, with its own dedicated tax, has been run responsibly; the rest of the government has not. So why are we talking about Social Security defaulting?

We are not talking about SS defaulting - we are talking about the feasability of paying only 70% of current SS retirement benefit levels (after about 2034) as being a viable option. If it was fiscally responsible policy to set (raise?) FICA taxation rates to purposefully generate a surplus then that fiscally responsible policy should be continued. After the "boomer retirement bubble" period has passed then it may be prudent to lower FICA tax rates accordingly.
 
You never explained what you were talking about when you referred to 'black standards.' Could you please do so now, so we will know what you meant when you used that term ?

I could have said typical "thinking patterns" instead of "standards." Bible believing Christians have "typical thinking patterns," as do democrats, republicans, poor people, rich people, religious people, non-religious people, and people from different cultural backgrounds. Those supporting Trump think differently than those wanting to hurt him.
 
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Not even the US government can print its own money to pay its overdue bills. Germany tried that. Venezuela tried that. Bot failed miserably. Printing more money results in hyper inflation, which is why Congress does not look to printing presses to solve budget crises, but to taxation and borrowing money from sources which must be paid back - with interest.

The 2011 downgrade was the first time the US government was given a credit rating below AAA. S&P had announced a negative outlook on the AAA rating in April 2011. The downgrade to AA+ occurred four days after the 112th Congress voted to raise the debt ceiling of the federal government by means of the Budget Control Act of 2011 on August 2, 2011.

United States federal government credit-rating downgrades - Wikipedia

Other nations and the US S&P recognized that the US is not made of money and cannot just print itself out of debt. It must buy itself out of debt with real money that can only be earned by real labor.
I guess we should be having hyperinflation, based upon the growth in the money supply.

montary-base.jpg


If you read the credit rating report, you would know it had nothing to do with debt or money supply but with the threat from politicians who can't agree to raise the debt ceiling.
 
Hmm... what happened when congress wanted to spend more than tax revenue would support for the last 30 years? Yep, they borrowed more money (used deficit spending to "kick the can down the road") and kept right on spending - see the national debt clock.

IMHO, what will probably happen is that FICA taxes will (eventually) be increased and/or the formula for paying (future?) SS retirees will be "adjusted" (for those retiring after 2034?).

Officials at the Social Security administration do predict tax increases will be necessary to support Social Security payments in the future. Tax increases will also be needed to support Medicare in the future, to support national security in the future and everything else. Why? Because the US government cannot pay for things unless it gets real money from somewhere.
 
Is the Social Security fund running out of funds and is there a danger it could go into default on its obligations? Yes. Several American cities have already defaulted on their pension obligations due to bankruptcy. There are those who think the government cannot possibly default on its obligations, but those people don't know what they are talking about.

my leg hurts, it has been bad ever since my prostate surgery, it was injured in surgery

damn it
 
I could have said typical "thinking patterns" instead of "standards." Bible believing Christians have "typical thinking patterns," as do democrats, republicans, poor people, rich people, religious people, non-religious people, and people from different cultural backgrounds. Those supporting Trump think differently than those wanting to hurt him.

But you chose to use the term 'black standards.' Tell us what, it your thought processes, you mean by 'black standards.' You clearly seem to be dodging and deflecting from answering a fair question about a term you put forth referring to a minority ethnic/racial group of fellow Americans. And now you've add 'typical thinking patterns' to the equation. What the hell does that mean when referring to blacks ?
 
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Officials at the Social Security administration do predict tax increases will be necessary to support Social Security payments in the future. Tax increases will also be needed to support Medicare in the future, to support national security in the future and everything else. Why? Because the US government cannot pay for things unless it gets real money from somewhere.

The government can both print real money and it can borrow money at a very low (effectively negative?) interest rate. If money can be borrowed at an interest rate below the general inflation rate then that is effectively creating money out of thin air.
 
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