Page 1 of 39 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 389

Thread: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

  1. #1
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    19,404

    What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    In another thread a conservative poster made this argument...

    Remember, there are people in that 44% who don't earn money at all. They are on the Gov teat to begin with
    [...]


    The point is, they pay Nada, zero, zilch and zelda towards the militarily...(protection)
    That makes little sense to me. Not even as a matter of fairness but as a matter of simple math.

    The total Adjusted Gross Income of the country is about $11 trillion. The top 50% has about $10 trillion and the bottom 50% had about $1 trillion. We spend, as a country, about $1.5 trillion in income taxes. About 97% of that is covered by the top 50% and the remaining 3% by the bottom 50%.

    My question is how much would the bottom 50% have to pay for it to be fair?

    Nominally speak, half of $1.5 trillion is about $750 billion. That means the bottom 50% would have to pay 75% of their combined income to cover half the country's tax burden.

    Keep in mind that to be in the bottom 50%, you have to make less than $40,000 a year.

    So are the folks who are making $40,000 a year "living off the government teet" if they are not contributing $30,000 a year (75%) to income taxes? That is how I interpret the quote above. The poster is claiming that those who pay little or no taxes are a burden.

    I can't figure out what a "fair share" tax for the bottom 50% would look like to conservatives. The top 50% will always pay more, which means no matter how much the bottom 50% pays, it will never be enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  2. #2
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    17,490

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    In another thread a conservative poster made this argument... Remember, there are people in that 44% who don't earn money at all. They are on the Gov teat to begin with [...] That makes little sense to me. Not even as a matter of fairness but as a matter of simple math. I can't figure out what a "fair share" tax for the bottom 50% would look like to conservatives. The top 50% will always pay more, which means no matter how much the bottom 50% pays, it will never be enough.
    I was recently made aware of a tax provision that's been on the books for a long time, but recently got popular in around 2015, for IPOs. Basically, if you own a company and can issue stock for that ownership, and own it for at least 5 years, you don't have to pay long term cap gains (15%...laughing at you people making $80K paying higher taxes), you pay 0% taxes. Republicans pushed to keep this on the books of course. Anyone can look this up, and yes you can thank me if it applies to you and you were not aware.

    Fair is a concept the rabble simply don't understand...to them concepts that are important, are to be ridiculed and laughed at. Fair is what you can manage to take...and they applaud it, while decrying it in other ways. They are ignorant fools.

    The idea that you are looking to "make sense" of modern conservative brainwashed rhetoric is what doesn't make sense. You know they do not use reason first and foremost. You know they have no interest in concepts like truth, fair, reasonable, compromise, sense, good will, etc. unless they feel it helps them (cost to others is ultimately irrelevant).

    You see it 1000 times a day on this forum. The constant trolling that they pass of as "discussion". The parroting of Hannity and company as reasonable. And when challenged, having absolutely no issue denying reality, or simply trolling in response. It's like when you have an assignment in school you need to get a good grade on, and you're assigned to work in a group. Some of the group will do nothing...you have to carry their sorry asses. Elites in this country figure if they have to carry these intentionally idiotic conservatives, that they will milk them for their money and power so at least the wealth/elites can enjoy working with such morons. Many Democrats instead spend their time trying to show them why slacking off on a "group project" is counterproductive. And round and round we go.

  3. #3
    A sinister place...
    OrphanSlug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Atlanta
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,381

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    There is no such thing as "fair tax," that is ideological in presentation but not economically sound in any regard. Even saying "what is fair to tax" for any income ends up clouded in political desire against economic impact.
    "Democracy without respect for individual rights sucks. It's just ganging up against the weird kid, and I'm always the weird kid." - Penn Jillette.

  4. #4
    Sage
    KevinKohler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    07-19-19 @ 08:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,553
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Fairness does not apply.

    Letting my kids have equal driving time is fair, yet my son is 7, so probably not advisable.

    You want the maximum amount of people to have the maximum amount of disposable income. Period.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  5. #5
    Sage
    chuckiechan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    California Caliphate
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,892

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I was recently made aware of a tax provision that's been on the books for a long time, but recently got popular in around 2015, for IPOs. Basically, if you own a company and can issue stock for that ownership, and own it for at least 5 years, you don't have to pay long term cap gains (15%...laughing at you people making $80K paying higher taxes), you pay 0% taxes. Republicans pushed to keep this on the books of course. Anyone can look this up, and yes you can thank me if it applies to you and you were not aware.

    Fair is a concept the rabble simply don't understand...to them concepts that are important, are to be ridiculed and laughed at. Fair is what you can manage to take...and they applaud it, while decrying it in other ways. They are ignorant fools.

    The idea that you are looking to "make sense" of modern conservative brainwashed rhetoric is what doesn't make sense. You know they do not use reason first and foremost. You know they have no interest in concepts like truth, fair, reasonable, compromise, sense, good will, etc. unless they feel it helps them (cost to others is ultimately irrelevant).

    You see it 1000 times a day on this forum. The constant trolling that they pass of as "discussion". The parroting of Hannity and company as reasonable. And when challenged, having absolutely no issue denying reality, or simply trolling in response. It's like when you have an assignment in school you need to get a good grade on, and you're assigned to work in a group. Some of the group will do nothing...you have to carry their sorry asses. Elites in this country figure if they have to carry these intentionally idiotic conservatives, that they will milk them for their money and power so at least the wealth/elites can enjoy working with such morons. Many Democrats instead spend their time trying to show them why slacking off on a "group project" is counterproductive. And round and round we go.
    While you are spewing invective at the conservative idea of using a lighter tax hand on entrepreneurs is a consertave plot to “hold the little guy down”, you somehow manage to ignore the tax burden imposed by most blue states. In California, a breathing tax is certainly being discussed.

    Federal tax policy is not blind, nor should it be blind to encouraging risk capital, and yes there is certainly abuse. The tax code is known as “The Book of Favors and Abuses”. Be my guest and try to get the law changed. Good luck with that.
    Antifa’s job is to do the democrats dirty work.
    Who is going to stop the left from killing the nation?
    America belongs to the rest of the world. Your job is to pay for it.
    Racism is not being able to read racist rap lyrics out loud because you are white.

  6. #6
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    394

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    In another thread a conservative poster made this argument...



    That makes little sense to me. Not even as a matter of fairness but as a matter of simple math.

    The total Adjusted Gross Income of the country is about $11 trillion. The top 50% has about $10 trillion and the bottom 50% had about $1 trillion. We spend, as a country, about $1.5 trillion in income taxes. About 97% of that is covered by the top 50% and the remaining 3% by the bottom 50%.

    My question is how much would the bottom 50% have to pay for it to be fair?

    Nominally speak, half of $1.5 trillion is about $750 billion. That means the bottom 50% would have to pay 75% of their combined income to cover half the country's tax burden.

    Keep in mind that to be in the bottom 50%, you have to make less than $40,000 a year.

    So are the folks who are making $40,000 a year "living off the government teet" if they are not contributing $30,000 a year (75%) to income taxes? That is how I interpret the quote above. The poster is claiming that those who pay little or no taxes are a burden.

    I can't figure out what a "fair share" tax for the bottom 50% would look like to conservatives. The top 50% will always pay more, which means no matter how much the bottom 50% pays, it will never be enough.
    He complains about the 44% of low income earners not paying any FIT but doesn't say a word about large Corporations making millions if not billions in US profits not paying a cent in US income taxes
    the GAO posted that in 2017 42% of all US corps. making over a Million dollars in US profits did NOT pay a cent in FIT and that they expected that percent to go up to 65% after the Trump tax cuts
    I guess he expects people that are working making min. wage some working 2 jobs and a spouse working too and just getting by to pay more in FIT then a large corp. making millions if not billions in US profits
    Have a nice night

  7. #7
    pleb nekrodev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:24 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,044

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    I don't think your stats are right, but assuming they were, then the bottom 50% should just not have to pay taxes because clearly they don't make enough for it to matter.

  8. #8
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    17,490

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Fairness does not apply.
    Letting my kids have equal driving time is fair, yet my son is 7, so probably not advisable.
    You want the maximum amount of people to have the maximum amount of disposable income. Period.
    Short term or long term? Aha.

  9. #9
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:38 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    17,490

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    While you are spewing invective at the conservative idea of using a lighter tax hand on entrepreneurs is a consertave plot to “hold the little guy down”, you somehow manage to ignore the tax burden imposed by most blue states. In California, a breathing tax is certainly being discussed.
    Because I post X, I therefore ignore Y in the totality of my discourse?

    That's stupid chuckiechan, why did you type it?

    Federal tax policy is not blind, nor should it be blind to encouraging risk capital, and yes there is certainly abuse..
    It's not abuse, it's been on the books for I believe, over a decade. It's use, by Republicans. Stop acting so ignorant, it's depressing. If you admit it's abuse, then you admit it's wrong. And if it's wrong, ethically you should support fixing it it...but...
    The tax code is known as “The Book of Favors and Abuses”. Be my guest and try to get the law changed. Good luck with that
    But you throw up your hands in futility and defeat, and support their "abuse and favors"? Might as well change your lean to Nihilist.

    Why can't you learn to reason?

  10. #10
    Sensational

    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Paradise
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    42,401
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    A flat tax for everyone, same rate, no exceptions, no deductions except for children.

Page 1 of 39 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •