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What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

Tbird19482 said:
Don't go trying to change what I said.
You always try to turn things around.
I believe that people who are working and are having a hard time just making ends meet . putting a roof over their families heads. food on their table , having a car to be able to go to work and living at or below poverty level shouldn't, and add in people on SS that are having a hard time supporting themselves.
YES they do get military protection and so do Corps. in the US so why do you think Corps should not pay anything for the same protection? or get to use many of the same programs these people use, ( Corps. use Training programs these people use, they use the same infrastructure these people use and more )
AND where i went to college is none of your business
and when you answer my question about why Corps shouldn't pay FIT I might answer your questions
have a nice afternoon
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So how do you know people are having a hard time making ends meet? You buy rhetoric so now are you telling me that you know what the cost of living is for all working Americans not paying taxes? Is it your idea that cell phones, flat screen TV's, video games, concerts, fast food restaurants, Jordan sneakers are requirements? Maybe if these people got what they needed instead of what they wanted they could afford to pay something in Federal Income taxes. Don't give a damn about corporations and their taxes, why do you? How has that affected you and your family. Corporations are legal entities that support the state and local communities, higher taxes means higher cost for goods and services.
 
Conservative said:
So how do you know people are having a hard time making ends meet? You buy rhetoric so now are you telling me that you know what the cost of living is for all working Americans not paying taxes? Is it your idea that cell phones, flat screen TV's, video games, concerts, fast food restaurants, Jordan sneakers are requirements? Maybe if these people got what they needed instead of what they wanted they could afford to pay something in Federal Income taxes. Don't give a damn about corporations and their taxes, why do you? How has that affected you and your family. Corporations are legal entities that support the state and local communities, higher taxes means higher cost for goods and services.
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Again you are trying to change what I did say.
I never said every one of the people in that 44% you want to tax were buying flat screen TV's and any of that other stuff
I unlike you get off my computer and go places and talk to real people and I have Friends that are working two jobs and feel bad that they can't afford to buy their kids some of those things, they don't buy them because they can just pay their bills and put food on their tables. they are driving 13, 14 or older cars that are falling apart and have to put money into them so they can go to work.
YES there agree people out there working and not able to get all these things you say.
and I also think they should pay their bills first and IF they have any money then buy their kids some of these things.
I guess you like paying more in FIT then corps making billions of dollars in US profits and using things those FIT pay for
have a nice day
 
Tbird19482 said:
Again you are trying to change what I did say.
I never said every one of the people in that 44% you want to tax were buying flat screen TV's and any of that other stuff
I unlike you get off my computer and go places and talk to real people and I have Friends that are working two jobs and feel bad that they can't afford to buy their kids some of those things, they don't buy them because they can just pay their bills and put food on their tables. they are driving 13, 14 or older cars that are falling apart and have to put money into them so they can go to work.
YES there agree people out there working and not able to get all these things you say.
and I also think they should pay their bills first and IF they have any money then buy their kids some of these things.
I guess you like paying more in FIT then corps making billions of dollars in US profits and using things those FIT pay for
have a nice day
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No, what you are saying is that it is fair for the top 1% to pay 40% of federal income tax and 44% of income earners not to pay any tax at all on their income

That is liberal logic and someone who thinks entirely with their heart instead of the brain

All this class envy, jealousy, and hatred for the private sector Along with total ignorance on what taxes corporations actually pay as if that matters at all since federal income tax and corporate income tax is more than enough to pay for the line items that the tax was created to fun

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Conservative said:
So let's see if I have this correct, you don't believe working Americans earning an income should be paying anything for their own protection or for the gov't that gives them that opportunity and are using the argument that corporations are people using the same services but not paying any income taxes?? Where exactly did you get your education as I am still waiting to post that information to let others see what kind of education their kids would get sending them to your school?

Can you also explain to me how FIT and Corporate taxes which totaled over 1.8 trillion dollars created a deficit on the items that FIT was created to fund and why should FIT and Corporate income taxes be used to fund the SS and Medicare shortfall when NOT All Income earning Americans receive SS and Medicare? Ponder that question as you enjoy your nice day!
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The Earning Income Tax Credit is “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.” -- Ronald Reagan
 
Conservative said:
No, what you are saying is that it is fair for the top 1% to pay 40% of federal income tax and 44% of income earners not to pay any tax at all on their income

That is liberal logic and someone who thinks entirely with their heart instead of the brain

All this class envy, jealousy, and hatred for the private sector Along with total ignorance on what taxes corporations actually pay as if that matters at all since federal income tax and corporate income tax is more than enough to pay for the line items that the tax was created to fun

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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YOU are lying again
I never said any such thing
You just keep trying to twist and turn what other people on here say.

Where have I ever said that it is fair for the top 1% to pay 40% of all income taxes?
show us.
YOU can't because all you are doing is lying and I never said it.
What I am saying is the large Corps do pay some taxes and according to the GAO the percentage of large Corps that are not paying one cent in FIT is expected to go UP from 42% in 2017 to 65%, so if 65% of all these large Corps are NOT paying a cent in FIT how is it that you don't want them to and YOU want the people who make even one dollar ( and some of them not making enough to live on ) pay FIT?
and in some ways I do agree with you, some people getting help from the Gov. do spend that money on stuff they shouldn't and the programs that provide this help have to put stricter rules and regulations on these programs and if anyone is found to have violated these rules they should not be able to get any help for something like 5 years.
and IF you think about it IF a large corp paid FIT on every dollar they make then ( YES ) they would raise their prices to pay for it and pass that increase on to the public , and then the lower 44% that don't pay FIT would be paying it indirectly
have a nice day
 
MTAtech said:
The Earning Income Tax Credit is “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.” -- Ronald Reagan
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and when they took away the personal exemption in the last tax cut it harmed some people.
they said it was going to be good for a family of five
well they did increase the standard deduction to 24000 but in 2017 a family of five could deduct 32950 ( standard deduction and 5 personal exemptions)
increasing their Taxable income by 8950
have a nice day
 
Tbird19482 said:
YOU are lying again
I never said any such thing
You just keep trying to twist and turn what other people on here say.

Where have I ever said that it is fair for the top 1% to pay 40% of all income taxes?
show us.
YOU can't because all you are doing is lying and I never said it.
What I am saying is the large Corps do pay some taxes and according to the GAO the percentage of large Corps that are not paying one cent in FIT is expected to go UP from 42% in 2017 to 65%, so if 65% of all these large Corps are NOT paying a cent in FIT how is it that you don't want them to and YOU want the people who make even one dollar ( and some of them not making enough to live on ) pay FIT?
and in some ways I do agree with you, some people getting help from the Gov. do spend that money on stuff they shouldn't and the programs that provide this help have to put stricter rules and regulations on these programs and if anyone is found to have violated these rules they should not be able to get any help for something like 5 years.
and IF you think about it IF a large corp paid FIT on every dollar they make then ( YES ) they would raise their prices to pay for it and pass that increase on to the public , and then the lower 44% that don't pay FIT would be paying it indirectly
have a nice day
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then you define fair to me and explain to us why a corporation should be taxed in the first place. I prefer jobs to putting a corporation out of business or forcing them to raise prices. Higher taxes on corporations come at a cost, something you refuse to acknowledge

Why is it so important for you that corporations pay taxes? How does a corporation not paying taxes impact you? This is nothing but class envy, jealousy and promotion of socialism. When companies are taxed out of business they leave and take jobs with them, ask your governor about Amazon? Corporate taxes are paid by consumers, Consumers are paid taxes on the income their earn. you don't seem to grasp the reality that if corporations raise prices to pay for their taxes sales are hurt and that costs jobs. Again, I prefer jobs. you prefer taxing corporations.
 
MTAtech said:
The Earning Income Tax Credit is “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job creation measure to come out of Congress.” -- Ronald Reagan
Click to expand...

LOL, keep missing the point, FIT and corporate tax revenue is more than enough to pay for the expenses it was created to fund and those that Congress added. SS and Medicare and interest expense is causing the deficit growth and you think the rich are going to pay that or that FIT increases should be generated to pay for those items? How does that benefit the American people? Tax cuts do, tax increases benefit bureaucrats and hurts states.

You think I have a problem with 44% of income earners not paying any FIT??? NO, my issue is with you and others calling for an increase on those in the top 1% of which I am not one who pay 40% now. There is nothing fair in your argument
 
Tbird19482 said:
and when they took away the personal exemption in the last tax cut it harmed some people.
they said it was going to be good for a family of five
well they did increase the standard deduction to 24000 but in 2017 a family of five could deduct 32950 ( standard deduction and 5 personal exemptions)
increasing their Taxable income by 8950
have a nice day
Click to expand...

How did the last tax cut hurt people??? You think your state and local taxes should be deducted from the cost of the federal gov't to run the country?? Taxable income is increased by Blue state people who aren't allowed to deduct their high state and local taxes from their federal return. Those that didn't itemize or have those high taxes they were unable to deduct got a tax cut just like all taxpayers. How do you give a tax cut to people who don't pay FIT and why shouldn't the American people be keeping more of what they earn since what is being collected now funds the items FIT was created to fund and the items Congress added?
 
CriticalThought said:
In another thread a conservative poster made this argument...



That makes little sense to me. Not even as a matter of fairness but as a matter of simple math.

The total Adjusted Gross Income of the country is about $11 trillion. The top 50% has about $10 trillion and the bottom 50% had about $1 trillion. We spend, as a country, about $1.5 trillion in income taxes. About 97% of that is covered by the top 50% and the remaining 3% by the bottom 50%.

My question is how much would the bottom 50% have to pay for it to be fair?

Nominally speak, half of $1.5 trillion is about $750 billion. That means the bottom 50% would have to pay 75% of their combined income to cover half the country's tax burden.

Keep in mind that to be in the bottom 50%, you have to make less than $40,000 a year.

So are the folks who are making $40,000 a year "living off the government teet" if they are not contributing $30,000 a year (75%) to income taxes? That is how I interpret the quote above. The poster is claiming that those who pay little or no taxes are a burden.

I can't figure out what a "fair share" tax for the bottom 50% would look like to conservatives. The top 50% will always pay more, which means no matter how much the bottom 50% pays, it will never be enough.
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The poverty level is around 15%. Anyone below that level should pay zero federal income taxes. Anyone over the poverty level should pay some federal income taxes. There should be a minimum tax for various income levels, no matter how many credits or deductions you have. That applies to both the 16% and the top 1%. I wouldn't be opposed to making the poverty level a realistic dollar amount and we could have 50 different figures, depending on which state you live in.
 
Conservative said:
How did the last tax cut hurt people??? You think your state and local taxes should be deducted from the cost of the federal gov't to run the country?? Taxable income is increased by Blue state people who aren't allowed to deduct their high state and local taxes from their federal return. Those that didn't itemize or have those high taxes they were unable to deduct got a tax cut just like all taxpayers. How do you give a tax cut to people who don't pay FIT and why shouldn't the American people be keeping more of what they earn since what is being collected now funds the items FIT was created to fund and the items Congress added?
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First of all Corps. use things and programs the Fed. gov. provides, you say the people that are in that 44% you keep crying about should pay FIT because the Gov. provides military protection and other programs for them so if they have to pay for these programs and military protection why shouldn't the Corps?
as I said before Corps work on a profit marg. and I know as well as you do if their costs go up ( FIT ) they pass it on.
well just how much do you think they would have to raise their prices to cover it?
Amazon and a lot of other Corps are making Billions in profits and not paying a cent
their profits are way over their profit marg.
and You are a hypocrite . you keep saying the hard working people should be able to keep more of what they earn well if you really believed that why is it you want to tax everybody that earns even one dollar?
what I think you should be saying is everybody in the top several income groups should be able to keep more of what they earn and the people in the lowest income groups shouldn't they should pay more in FIT and not be able to keep more of what they earn
and as for the " tax cut" it is simple math ( I know that is way over your head ) IF in 2017 a family of 3 got to deduct 12700 standard deduction and 4050 dollars per person for personal exemptions they could deduct 24850 dollars and in 2018 all they could deduct using the standard deduction is 24000 so their taxable income went up 850 dollars and in the lower tax rate level of 10% their taxes went up 85 dollars
then a family of four could have deducted 28900 in 2017 and only 24000 in 2018 an increase in their taxable income of 4900 dollars or 490 in their taxes and a family of five could have taken 32950 in 2017 and only 24000 in 2018 an increase of 8950 in taxable income and an increase of 895 in their taxes
So for these people in the group where their deductions went down and their taxable income went up increasing their FIT it did hurt them
What happened to people keeping more of what they make?
again you should be saying the people in the higher income tax groups should be able to keep more of what they make and everybody in the lower income groups should be paying more in FIT and not be able to keep as much of what they earned in years past
have a nice day
 
Tbird19482 said:
First of all Corps. use things and programs the Fed. gov. provides, you say the people that are in that 44% you keep crying about should pay FIT because the Gov. provides military protection and other programs for them so if they have to pay for these programs and military protection why shouldn't the Corps?
as I said before Corps work on a profit marg. and I know as well as you do if their costs go up ( FIT ) they pass it on.
well just how much do you think they would have to raise their prices to cover it?
Amazon and a lot of other Corps are making Billions in profits and not paying a cent
their profits are way over their profit marg.
and You are a hypocrite . you keep saying the hard working people should be able to keep more of what they earn well if you really believed that why is it you want to tax everybody that earns even one dollar?
what I think you should be saying is everybody in the top several income groups should be able to keep more of what they earn and the people in the lowest income groups shouldn't they should pay more in FIT and not be able to keep more of what they earn
and as for the " tax cut" it is simple math ( I know that is way over your head ) IF in 2017 a family of 3 got to deduct 12700 standard deduction and 4050 dollars per person for personal exemptions they could deduct 24850 dollars and in 2018 all they could deduct using the standard deduction is 24000 so their taxable income went up 850 dollars and in the lower tax rate level of 10% their taxes went up 85 dollars
then a family of four could have deducted 28900 in 2017 and only 24000 in 2018 an increase in their taxable income of 4900 dollars or 490 in their taxes and a family of five could have taken 32950 in 2017 and only 24000 in 2018 an increase of 8950 in taxable income and an increase of 895 in their taxes
So for these people in the group where their deductions went down and their taxable income went up increasing their FIT it did hurt them
What happened to people keeping more of what they make?
again you should be saying the people in the higher income tax groups should be able to keep more of what they make and everybody in the lower income groups should be paying more in FIT and not be able to keep as much of what they earned in years past
have a nice day
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As stated You're ignorance on this issue is staggering. corporations are a legal entity made up of people! It is people that spends the money, people that use the services, people that pay the taxes!

Also you continue to ignore FIT and corporate taxes more than funded the line Items that they were created to pay for.

I really don't give a damn whether 44% of income earners are paying any federal income taxes my point is you don't Jack up all the taxes on the 1% that do without getting something from the 44% that don't

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The only intelligent thing to do is look at cause and effect. The millions of unskilled and semi-skilled immigrants who are streaming into this country have overly saturated these job markets causing the wages in these markets to be artificially low. Due to this, many Americans have been forced into poverty or near poverty. The only fair way to handle this is to impose a fair tax on these immigrants to compensate for the harm they are doing.
 
BahamaBob said:
The only intelligent thing to do is look at cause and effect. The millions of unskilled and semi-skilled immigrants who are streaming into this country have overly saturated these job markets causing the wages in these markets to be artificially low. Due to this, many Americans have been forced into poverty or near poverty. The only fair way to handle this is to impose a fair tax on these immigrants to compensate for the harm they are doing.
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Yes but just look at the Democratic Voters that are being created and bought and paid for by taxpayer dollars. Dependence is the creation of the left and they will live and die on that issue.
 
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