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What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

jaeger19 said:
Except that they are still US citizens.. and so are subject to US tax.

If they decided to not be US citizens.. and give up citizenship.. then they still could be subject to tax for money that they make in the US
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How you reduce your taxes is to reside in another country, and move your capital gains from US stocks to a different country that has a lower or no capital gains tax. Rich people are able to do similar things, and the more we tax them, the more of them that do it.
 
Whenever I see people talking about "fair" and taxes, I think it is worthwhile to
show per capita cost of our government.
The treasury bulletin says that total outlays for 2019 will be,
4,529,188,000,000
Treasury Bulletin - Current Issue
the total US population is listed as
329,053,135.
us population 2019 - Google Search
The outlay divided by the population, shows our government costs us $13,764 per person per year.
Everyone, rich or poor pays the same thing for equal services, I am not sure why people think the government
should be any different?
I am not pointing this out because I think people should pay the actual cost of the services,
but that the cost of the services needs to be lower!
 
CriticalThought said:
In another thread a conservative poster made this argument...



That makes little sense to me. Not even as a matter of fairness but as a matter of simple math.

The total Adjusted Gross Income of the country is about $11 trillion. The top 50% has about $10 trillion and the bottom 50% had about $1 trillion. We spend, as a country, about $1.5 trillion in income taxes. About 97% of that is covered by the top 50% and the remaining 3% by the bottom 50%.

My question is how much would the bottom 50% have to pay for it to be fair?

Nominally speak, half of $1.5 trillion is about $750 billion. That means the bottom 50% would have to pay 75% of their combined income to cover half the country's tax burden.

Keep in mind that to be in the bottom 50%, you have to make less than $40,000 a year.

So are the folks who are making $40,000 a year "living off the government teet" if they are not contributing $30,000 a year (75%) to income taxes? That is how I interpret the quote above. The poster is claiming that those who pay little or no taxes are a burden.

I can't figure out what a "fair share" tax for the bottom 50% would look like to conservatives. The top 50% will always pay more, which means no matter how much the bottom 50% pays, it will never be enough.
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The only "fair" tax is a simple head tax. No deductions. No exceptions. Anything else is redistribution of wealth. So the question of what's fair doesn't matter. The question should be what's practical. The present system of borrowing most of what we spend isn't practical.

The real losers in this Ponzi scheme are the future generations. Ultimately they will pay.
 
Lord of Planar said:
How you reduce your taxes is to reside in another country, and move your capital gains from US stocks to a different country that has a lower or no capital gains tax. Rich people are able to do similar things, and the more we tax them, the more of them that do it.
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Sure.. which means that you have moved your income basically out of the US.

Most rich people.. who are making money in the US.. are making money in the US.. which means its subject to US tax.. if they are US citizens.

Some rich people are able to do such things. But this idea that "oh. if we tax the rich more.. they will leave"... is pretty much bunk. It would take a huge increase in taxes.. or something like a wealth tax for rich people to leave the US.

The US is a pretty dang good place to live. And there is a ton of money to be made here.. which is why we have so many people coming to America. In fact.. we actually have incentives so that the rich people of china.. can get greencards to come and live in America. That's right..they are Chinese millionaires who purposely invest in America.. simply to get an expedited immigration rating.
 
Lord of Planar said:
How you reduce your taxes is to reside in another country, and move your capital gains from US stocks to a different country that has a lower or no capital gains tax. Rich people are able to do similar things, and the more we tax them, the more of them that do it.
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I don't believe you cam do that without giving up your passport
 
Conservative said:
Right, in your world everything is paid for by someone else as you have that entitlement mentality

You live in this country, you benefit from this country you pay something in FIT.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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Who would you be talking to.. since I am in the 1%.

See the problem is you ridiculous dude. Is that your partisanship.. and quite frankly ignorance MISSES THE POINT.. that I have made repeatedly.

IT COSTS ME..a taxpayer... MORE MONEY.. to require elderly people to pay FIT..and then turn around have have to give them welfare.

the same with military families that don't make enough to qualify for FIT...

It cost me more money to make up the difference if by making students pay for FIT.. decreases their likelihood of getting a degree and good job and thus they become lower level tax payers.

WHY.. do you want to me to pay more money in taxes.. to support your ridiculous premise? Especially when the vast majority of americans… WILL and DO.. be net taxpayers of FIT in their lifetime.?
 
jaeger19 said:
Who would you be talking to.. since I am in the 1%.

See the problem is you ridiculous dude. Is that your partisanship.. and quite frankly ignorance MISSES THE POINT.. that I have made repeatedly.

IT COSTS ME..a taxpayer... MORE MONEY.. to require elderly people to pay FIT..and then turn around have have to give them welfare.

the same with military families that don't make enough to qualify for FIT...

It cost me more money to make up the difference if by making students pay for FIT.. decreases their likelihood of getting a degree and good job and thus they become lower level tax payers.

WHY.. do you want to me to pay more money in taxes.. to support your ridiculous premise? Especially when the vast majority of americans… WILL and DO.. be net taxpayers of FIT in their lifetime.?
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25% flat tax, fair, no exceptions.
 
Crystal said:
25% flat tax, fair, no exceptions.
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Stupid.

Explain why it makes sense to tax say an elderly person, and force them into welfare. which cost me as a taxpayer more money.. than we collect from that elderly person.

Please explain your logic.
 
jaeger19 said:
Stupid.

Explain why it makes sense to tax say an elderly person, and force them into welfare. which cost me as a taxpayer more money.. than we collect from that elderly person.

Please explain your logic.
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You line is false! If you are an American you must pay taxes to support liberals wish list! That’s all there is to it.
 
Crystal said:
You line is false! If you are an American you must pay taxes to support liberals wish list! That’s all there is to it.
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You want to double your taxes????
 
vegas giants said:
You want to double your taxes????
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Has to be done. 25% on everybody no exception, to satisfy the liberal wish list of free everything for everybody including illegals.
 
Crystal said:
Has to be done. 25% on everybody no exception, to satisfy the liberal wish list of free everything for everybody including illegals.
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I love it. That would more than double current revenue.

We could make Sweden look.like Somalia with all the social programs we could have.

Thanks comrade
 
jaeger19 said:
Sure.. which means that you have moved your income basically out of the US.

Most rich people.. who are making money in the US.. are making money in the US.. which means its subject to US tax.. if they are US citizens.

Some rich people are able to do such things. But this idea that "oh. if we tax the rich more.. they will leave"... is pretty much bunk. It would take a huge increase in taxes.. or something like a wealth tax for rich people to leave the US.

The US is a pretty dang good place to live. And there is a ton of money to be made here.. which is why we have so many people coming to America. In fact.. we actually have incentives so that the rich people of china.. can get greencards to come and live in America. That's right..they are Chinese millionaires who purposely invest in America.. simply to get an expedited immigration rating.
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Great, you are the top 1% so I am sure you are rejecting your tax cut and sending the money back, further guess you are one of those parents who taught their kids that the freedoms in this country are free and don't have to be paid for. Teaching a young person that they have to pay taxes on their income obviously is a problem for you. You continue to ignore personal responsibility and the financial liability of living in this country

You also seem to have a reading comprehension problem as I don't support the elderly paying FIT on SS income as that is a tax on tax receipts collected. Suggest a reading comprehension class for you

Military families benefit from the PX and other military services such as the VA but I have no problem with military personnel not paying any FIT on their income

It is you that seems to have a problem understanding personal responsibility, the taxes you pay and there purpose. FIT funds the operating expenses to live in this country and 44% of income earning Americans aren't paying any FIT
 
vegas giants said:
I love it. That would more than double current revenue.

We could make Sweden look.like Somalia with all the social programs we could have.

Thanks comrade
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Oh poor thing.
 
Mach said:
I was recently made aware of a tax provision that's been on the books for a long time, but recently got popular in around 2015, for IPOs. Basically, if you own a company and can issue stock for that ownership, and own it for at least 5 years, you don't have to pay long term cap gains (15%...laughing at you people making $80K paying higher taxes), you pay 0% taxes. Republicans pushed to keep this on the books of course. Anyone can look this up, and yes you can thank me if it applies to you and you were not aware.

Fair is a concept the rabble simply don't understand...to them concepts that are important, are to be ridiculed and laughed at. Fair is what you can manage to take...and they applaud it, while decrying it in other ways. They are ignorant fools.

The idea that you are looking to "make sense" of modern conservative brainwashed rhetoric is what doesn't make sense. You know they do not use reason first and foremost. You know they have no interest in concepts like truth, fair, reasonable, compromise, sense, good will, etc. unless they feel it helps them (cost to others is ultimately irrelevant).

You see it 1000 times a day on this forum. The constant trolling that they pass of as "discussion". The parroting of Hannity and company as reasonable. And when challenged, having absolutely no issue denying reality, or simply trolling in response. It's like when you have an assignment in school you need to get a good grade on, and you're assigned to work in a group. Some of the group will do nothing...you have to carry their sorry asses. Elites in this country figure if they have to carry these intentionally idiotic conservatives, that they will milk them for their money and power so at least the wealth/elites can enjoy working with such morons. Many Democrats instead spend their time trying to show them why slacking off on a "group project" is counterproductive. And round and round we go.
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Tax anything that you want less of. Your idea of taxing poverty is worthy of consideration.
 
Lord of Planar said:
13 percent is too low.
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Actually, that would be considerably more if it was carried out for all income including capital gains and corporate incentives (bonuses, health insurance, etc,). It would be an ungodly regressive tax.
 
vegas giants said:
Do you know what your effective tax rate is now?
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I haven't calculated it lately and it depends on if you mean state and federal, with or without FICA. Mine is around 20% federal only, but then I made six figures taxable last year. Add up state and FICA... I paid a lot more than most people, and paid more than many people make.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I haven't calculated it lately and it depends on if you mean state and federal, with or without FICA. Mine is around 20% federal only, but then I made six figures taxable last year. Add up state and FICA... I paid a lot more than most people, and paid more than many people make.
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The average effective tax rate for 200,000 to 500,000 is 13%.
 
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