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Thread: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    In another thread a conservative poster made this argument...



    That makes little sense to me. Not even as a matter of fairness but as a matter of simple math.

    The total Adjusted Gross Income of the country is about $11 trillion. The top 50% has about $10 trillion and the bottom 50% had about $1 trillion. We spend, as a country, about $1.5 trillion in income taxes. About 97% of that is covered by the top 50% and the remaining 3% by the bottom 50%.

    My question is how much would the bottom 50% have to pay for it to be fair?

    Nominally speak, half of $1.5 trillion is about $750 billion. That means the bottom 50% would have to pay 75% of their combined income to cover half the country's tax burden.

    Keep in mind that to be in the bottom 50%, you have to make less than $40,000 a year.

    So are the folks who are making $40,000 a year "living off the government teet" if they are not contributing $30,000 a year (75%) to income taxes? That is how I interpret the quote above. The poster is claiming that those who pay little or no taxes are a burden.

    I can't figure out what a "fair share" tax for the bottom 50% would look like to conservatives. The top 50% will always pay more, which means no matter how much the bottom 50% pays, it will never be enough.
    Do you realize the super rich were once taxed at 90%?

    We need to invert that pyramid, tax the poor at 90% and give the super rich job creators like Trump a break.

    It is only fair.
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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yes, you judge others by your own standards not theirs, you have no idea what the cost of living of others is, what they can or cannot afford. You buy what you are told and ignore the various costs of living in the various states. What is fair about 44% of income earning Americans, job holders not paying a dime in Federal Income taxes/ Your idea of fair doesn't meet any standard except your own

    Large corporations receiving WHAT Benefits? Who in the hell pays their taxes when you raise them? are you truly this poorly informed and educated on this issue?
    Wasn't it YOU who said the 44% of people should help pay for the Military?
    or infrastructure, Training programs ( large Corps. use these and other programs you mentioned ) the low wage earner also pays gas tax, sales tax ( corps can deduct sales taxes and other taxes they pay and the working poor can't )
    AGAIN what do high taxed states have to do with the working poor in non high taxed states and all the US ?
    I am talking about EVERYBODY that is not making enough money to live on.
    YES we know how you are give to the rich and take from the working poor,
    SO when are you going to answer my question?
    WHY should large Corps. not pay a cent in FIT even if they get benefits from the programs FIT pays for and everybody else pay FIT
    I don't know about you but I don't make millions or billions a year and I have to pay FIT.
    and I use even less of these programs then Large Corps do.
    Yes I am protected by our military, and I use the infrastructure but I also pay FIT/
    You really need to get off your computer and look around you town and open your eyes to just what is going on , I am sure you can see people working at min. wage jobs and not being able to get along without help
    have a nice day

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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Tbird19482;1070296095]Wasn't it YOU who said the 44% of people should help pay for the Military?
    or infrastructure, Training programs ( large Corps. use these and other programs you mentioned ) the low wage earner also pays gas tax, sales tax ( corps can deduct sales taxes and other taxes they pay and the working poor can't )
    Yes it was me that said that and 44% of income earners has nothing to do with corporations or their taxes. Nor do corporations have to pay for defense their employees do and their employees pay the taxes. You pay the corporate taxes every time you buy their products or services

    Gas taxes, sales taxes have nothing to do with federal income taxes as again you have no idea what taxes you pay or their purpose. what school was that you got your degree from?

    AGAIN what do high taxed states have to do with the working poor in non high taxed states and all the US ?
    I am talking about EVERYBODY that is not making enough money to live on.
    Oh, my, high schools students living at home have what obligations? learn that there is no such thing as a free lunch and that you have to pay for your freedoms

    YES we know how you are give to the rich and take from the working poor,
    So when the people keep more of what they earn it is the gov't giving them something? what is the gov't giving them and since when does tax revenue prevent bureaucrats from spending money?

    SO when are you going to answer my question?
    WHY should large Corps. not pay a cent in FIT even if they get benefits from the programs FIT pays for and everybody else pay FIT
    I don't know about you but I don't make millions or billions a year and I have to pay FIT.
    Answered many times, corporations aren't people and don't cost the taxpayers a dime, they hire employees who do pay taxes and they collect their taxes from the profit they make thus the higher costs associated with tax increases. Your question answered again, you don't like the answer

    and I use even less of these programs then Large Corps do.
    Yes I am protected by our military, and I use the infrastructure but I also pay FIT/
    You really need to get off your computer and look around you town and open your eyes to just what is going on , I am sure you can see people working at min. wage jobs and not being able to get along without help
    have a nice day
    Your FIT doesn't pay for infrastructure, excise taxes do and why shouldn't every working American pay something for their own defense? Please learn the taxes you pay and their purpose.

    I spent 35 years in the private sector, had 1200 employees, 12 direct reports and 200 million dollars a year in business so I will put my resume up against yours any time as well as my logic and common sense which you don't seem to have

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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Answered many times, corporations aren't people and don't cost the taxpayers a dime, they hire employees who do pay taxes and they collect their taxes from the profit they make thus the higher costs associated with tax increases.
    This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard you say. I can even quote right wing articles that call bull on that crap.

    Yes, corporations are people. Get over it.

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    If you are going to base your arguments entirely on how you want the world to be and not how it actually is, then what is the point of even being here? You don't even need to get your confirmation bias validation if you can just pretend you live in a different world.


    Here is how it is...corporations are legally people and have had personhood since SCOTUS gave it to them in the 1800s, corporate subsidies do cost taxpayers a lot and inevitably increase prices on consumers, most corporations that benefit from government assistance do not turn a profit, and we spent $4 trillion just a little over a decade ago (the equivalent of 2.5 years of FTI) just so they could survive and get another $1 trillion tax cut under the current administration which our grandchildren will be paying for their entire lives.

    Super sorry if REALITY is not jiving with your "35 years in the private sector".
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 07-07-19 at 09:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard you say. I can even quote right wing articles that call bull on that crap.

    Yes, corporations are people. Get over it.

    54. Special-Interest Spending and Corporate Welfare | Cato Institute

    10 Years On: Too-Big-to-Fail Bailouts Failed Americans

    If you are going to base your arguments entirely on how you want the world to be and not how it actually is, then what is the point of even being here? You don't even need to get your confirmation bias validation if you can just pretend you live in a different world.


    Here is how it is...corporations are legally people and have had personhood since SCOTUS gave it to them in the 1800s, corporate subsidies do cost taxpayers a lot and inevitably increase prices on consumers, most corporations that benefit from government assistance do not turn a profit, and we spent $4 trillion just a little over a decade ago (the equivalent of 2.5 years of FTI) just so they could survive and get another $1 trillion tax cut under the current administration which our grandchildren will be paying for their entire lives.
    The legal definition doesn't change reality nor the reality that corporations don't pay taxes their consumers do in the form of higher prices. Corporations do employ people who pay taxes.

    Also it doesn't change the reality that FIT and Corporate taxes are more than enough to fund the discretionary budget and line items in that budget that is the responsibility of FIT. Learn the taxes you pay and their purpose

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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The legal definition doesn't change reality nor the reality that corporations don't pay taxes their consumers do in the form of higher prices. Corporations do employ people who pay taxes.

    Also it doesn't change the reality that FIT and Corporate taxes are more than enough to fund the discretionary budget and line items in that budget that is the responsibility of FIT. Learn the taxes you pay and their purpose
    The pass it on to consumers rhetoric would be valid if every corporation was a monopoly running at full efficiency. Some cost of increased taxes goes to consumers, some to reduce labor cost via layoffs, and some to shareholders/investors. That is why we have competition.

    This whole new notion of "job creators" is stupid. Jobs are a cost to corporations. A good company seeks to maintain as small and efficient a labor pool as necessary to meet demand. You don't get special treatment because to make money you have to hire people. That is absurd, especially since your inherent goal is to hire as few people as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I make no sense? You seem to have a problem with personal responsibility issues and believe that income earning Americans paying ZERO FIT should have someone else pay theirs. This isn't causing you to pay more, this is causing people who aren't paying anything to pay something and learn that there is no such thing as a "free lunch" now stop the bull****. this is reality and you are acting like a liberal
    Well...I know who those people that don't pay FIT.. are..they are folks like military families whose family members are putting their lives on the line for you.. but their income is so low..that they don't qualify to pay FIT.. ARe you saying that they are not being personal responsible? While carrying a rifle in your defense?


    How about the elderly person that has paid in thousands and thousands in FIT..but now they are elderly.. and though they have income..they are not paying FIT because its not enough to qualify?

    How about the college student who is busting their butt to get themselves through college..and doesn't pay FIT..now..but because of their degree and their hard work..they will be paying way way way more in FIT than the average person? And will pay way more than the average over their lifetime? Are they not responsible because though over their lifetime..they will be net FIT payers.?

    Because that's the case.. and I provided the facts that proved it.. over their lifetime.. the vast majority of those 44% will be NET FIT TAXPAYERS..

    In other words.. they ARE paying for themselves.. and often paying for other people.. as well... perhaps YOU when you get old enough and don't have enough income to pay FIT.

    You sir have no clue.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by Individual View Post
    Back to the OP question.

    With the Federal minimum wage of $7.25/hr those who receive government assistance should be required to perform 1 hour of needed labour as made available to them by State or local government for every $7.25 of assistance value provided them until which time they become capable of supporting their needs/wants without government assistance, exempting only those who are totally disabled and incapable of performing any productive work. Make that retroactive, applying it to those who were raised on government assistance as well as their parents and imagine the work that could be done.
    How can they be able to become capable of supporting their needs want without government assistance.. if they are working a 40 hour week.. and then say another 40 hours a week in needed labor (given that for most a living wage is roughly 15 dollars an hour) .. for a total of 80 hours a week?

    Doesn't work now does it.
    So we should put you down as supporting putting GPS trackers in everyone to "save lives"?
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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Well...I know who those people that don't pay FIT.. are..they are folks like military families whose family members are putting their lives on the line for you.. but their income is so low..that they don't qualify to pay FIT.. ARe you saying that they are not being personal responsible? While carrying a rifle in your defense?


    How about the elderly person that has paid in thousands and thousands in FIT..but now they are elderly.. and though they have income..they are not paying FIT because its not enough to qualify?

    How about the college student who is busting their butt to get themselves through college..and doesn't pay FIT..now..but because of their degree and their hard work..they will be paying way way way more in FIT than the average person? And will pay way more than the average over their lifetime? Are they not responsible because though over their lifetime..they will be net FIT payers.?

    Because that's the case.. and I provided the facts that proved it.. over their lifetime.. the vast majority of those 44% will be NET FIT TAXPAYERS..

    In other words.. they ARE paying for themselves.. and often paying for other people.. as well... perhaps YOU when you get old enough and don't have enough income to pay FIT.

    You sir have no clue.
    What percentage of the 44%?

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    Re: What is a "fair tax" for the bottom 50%

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    How can they be able to become capable of supporting their needs want without government assistance.. if they are working a 40 hour week.. and then say another 40 hours a week in needed labor (given that for most a living wage is roughly 15 dollars an hour) .. for a total of 80 hours a week?

    Doesn't work now does it.
    Obviously it does/would work. Back in the 70's I worked 112-126 hours a week for more than a year.
    The most basic need in todays world is a job, government should do no more than assure an environment conducive to job creation, while the most basic want has always been a long and comfortable existence which should be left to the individual to pursue with others free to give aid as they see fit and reasonable.

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