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Deficits are exploding – and neither party seems to care

chuckiechan

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Deficits are exploding – and neither party seems to care | Fox News

Polling indicates voters in both parties remain concerned about debt -- yet neither Republicans nor Democrats seem to emphasize the deficit much, in what is becoming an anti-austerity era. Not only does the issue merit little attention in Washington, but out on the 2020 presidential campaign trail the Democratic candidates are promising massive and expensive new government programs -- like “Medicare for All,” the “Green New Deal” or student loan forgiveness -- that could swell deficits even more, with estimates running in the trillions.

It has been obvious to me that it’s going to be a mess trying to bring down the debt. The best place to start is to shut down some government agencies. The only other way is to inflate our way out if it. Other than that, gutting entitlements is the last resort to save the USA.

FYI:
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

There is one teeny, tiny, bright spot. The trade deficit with China is falling. That is about all.
 
When has either side given a rats ass about our deficit spending? Republicans and Democrats alike are big government, big spending, big debt parties. It's only an issue when the other guy is in office.
 
A few "conservatives" will be here any minute to talk about this in terms of this all being Democrats fault anyway, no matter what Trump and Republicans have done during the time of the 115th Congress.
 
A few "conservatives" will be here any minute to talk about this in terms of this all being Democrats fault anyway, no matter what Trump and Republicans have done during the time of the 115th Congress.

The only complaint I have is that the deficits have absolutely nothing to do with tax cuts but rather spending. People like you blame the deficit on tax cuts whereas the fact is it is spending that causes the deficits not tax cuts that put more spendable income into the hands of the American people. The answer to the left is always raising taxes on the rich as if that is the solution to the debt problem ignoring that money comes out of the state and local coffers. States cannot print money, the federal gov't can.
 
The only complaint I have is that the deficits have absolutely nothing to do with tax cuts but rather spending. People like you blame the deficit on tax cuts whereas the fact is it is spending that causes the deficits not tax cuts that put more spendable income into the hands of the American people. The answer to the left is always raising taxes on the rich as if that is the solution to the debt problem ignoring that money comes out of the state and local coffers. States cannot print money, the federal gov't can.

Case in point my friends...

You have consistently and predictably been wrong on this subject, having a deficit or a surplus is the relation of tax revenues to outlays for a given fiscal year. Doing anything to either one and blaming the other one is a political and ideological argument devoid of basic math. Worse, economic principles are often discarded for your bumper sticker thinking of "more spendable income into the hands of the American people" as if that was motivation for Trump's tax cuts. And it was not.

Plenty of your opposition including me have posted plenty of empirical data as to what the results of Trump's tax cuts have done, from you and from up in the cheap seats all we get is rhetoric.
 
Case in point my friends...

You have consistently and predictably been wrong on this subject, having a deficit or a surplus is the relation of tax revenues to outlays for a given fiscal year. Doing anything to either one and blaming the other one is a political and ideological argument devoid of basic math. Worse, economic principles are often discarded for your bumper sticker thinking of "more spendable income into the hands of the American people" as if that was motivation for Trump's tax cuts. And it was not.

Plenty of your opposition including me have posted plenty of empirical data as to what the results of Trump's tax cuts have done, from you and from up in the cheap seats all we get is rhetoric.

Case in point? The solution to every liberal problem and promotions by you are higher taxes on the rich, do you deny that? Motivation for the Trump tax cuts? how about allowing people to keep more of what they earn and again how is that hurting you, your family or the country?

Empirical evidence, what evidence. You have offered none and MTA's so called evidence lacked context. I posted the official federal data including dollar GDP growth and it was ignored. I posted Treasury revenue data showing increases since the tax cuts and it was ignored. I showed new taxpayer created and it was ignored, I showed part time jobs being reduced and it was ignored. You have done or provided nothing to support your claims so claiming that I am only providing rhetoric shows how intellectually bankrupt you are.
 
Case in point my friends...

You have consistently and predictably been wrong on this subject, having a deficit or a surplus is the relation of tax revenues to outlays for a given fiscal year. Doing anything to either one and blaming the other one is a political and ideological argument devoid of basic math. Worse, economic principles are often discarded for your bumper sticker thinking of "more spendable income into the hands of the American people" as if that was motivation for Trump's tax cuts. And it was not.

Plenty of your opposition including me have posted plenty of empirical data as to what the results of Trump's tax cuts have done, from you and from up in the cheap seats all we get is rhetoric.

I understand that this will never resonate with people like you but the reality is that 321 billion of the 2019 deficit is due to SS and Medicare Shortfall

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/files/reports-statements/mts/mts0519.pdf

2019 Revenue for SS and Medicare 829 billion dollars

2019 Expenditures on SS and Medicare 1.150 TRILLION dollars

Keep blaming tax cuts for the growth in deficits
 
Deficits are exploding – and neither party seems to care | Fox News



It has been obvious to me that it’s going to be a mess trying to bring down the debt. The best place to start is to shut down some government agencies. The only other way is to inflate our way out if it. Other than that, gutting entitlements is the last resort to save the USA.

FYI:
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

There is one teeny, tiny, bright spot. The trade deficit with China is falling. That is about all.

And that's absolutely what should be done. There's no reason for us to be paying interest when we can create our own money.

 
I understand that this will never resonate with people like you but the reality is that 321 billion of the 2019 deficit is due to SS and Medicare Shortfall

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/files/reports-statements/mts/mts0519.pdf

2019 Revenue for SS and Medicare 829 billion dollars

2019 Expenditures on SS and Medicare 1.150 TRILLION dollars

Keep blaming tax cuts for the growth in deficits

Did you really read all of that report, or just cherry pick what you wanted?

Page 10... revenue from Corporate Tax is down compared to a year ago, revenue from Individual Tax is up compared to a year ago. At the same time revenue exclusive to "Social Insurance and Retirement" is also up from a year ago. Outlays to the various Departments are way up *with the exception* of the Department of Housing and Urban Development and Department of Homeland Security. Increases on the cost of servicing debt are dwarfed by a factor of almost 10x against the decreases on Corporate Tax revenue alone from 2017 to 2018.

You do not get to blame Social Safety Nets spending or Servicing Debt for the increase in deficits.
 
Did you really read all of that report, or just cherry pick what you wanted?

Page 10... revenue from Corporate Tax is down compared to a year ago, revenue from Individual Tax is up compared to a year ago. At the same time revenue exclusive to "Social Insurance and Retirement" is also up from a year ago. Outlays to the various Departments are way up *with the exception* of the Department of Housing and Urban Development and Department of Homeland Security. Increases on the cost of servicing debt are dwarfed by a factor of almost 10x against the decreases on Corporate Tax revenue alone from 2017 to 2018.

You do not get to blame Social Safety Nets spending or Servicing Debt for the increase in deficits.

Corporate taxes are down due to reinvestment. The China tariffs are causing US mfg’s to purchase new equipment to take advantage of filling the supply chain China is priced out of. That “lost” corporate money comes back in wages due to increased hiring.
 
Did you really read all of that report, or just cherry pick what you wanted?

Page 10... revenue from Corporate Tax is down compared to a year ago, revenue from Individual Tax is up compared to a year ago. At the same time revenue exclusive to "Social Insurance and Retirement" is also up from a year ago. Outlays to the various Departments are way up *with the exception* of the Department of Housing and Urban Development and Department of Homeland Security. Increases on the cost of servicing debt are dwarfed by a factor of almost 10x against the decreases on Corporate Tax revenue alone from 2017 to 2018.

You do not get to blame Social Safety Nets spending or Servicing Debt for the increase in deficits.

What is it about liberalism creates your kind of loyalty? What the hell does corporate taxes have to do with SS and Medicare deficits and how does the 10 billion dollar difference this year versus last year compensate for the 321 billion SS and Medicare deficits?

Like all liberals you buy what you want to hear and believe but the question is why? The facts are quite clear, first of all SS and Medicare have no business being part of the deficit just like the funds generated over years should never have been borrowed to fund gov't spending items. Second, corporate taxes are irrelevant but the people working their aren't and that is where the difference comes in. You want to ignore the benefits corporations provide for the state and local communities by simply focusing on Federal revenue which is what the left always does. How does a state get more revenue when the federal gov't raises taxes?

Stop letting the left make a fool out of you and it is you cherry picking numbers. 321 billion of the current fiscal year deficit is due to SS and Medicare and Interest expense also is bigger this year vs. last year but your cry remains, "TAX THE RICH!!" as you continue to make excuses for massive entitlement and gov't spending that creates dependence
 
What is it about liberalism creates your kind of loyalty? What the hell does corporate taxes have to do with SS and Medicare deficits and how does the 10 billion dollar difference this year versus last year compensate for the 321 billion SS and Medicare deficits?

Like all liberals you buy what you want to hear and believe but the question is why? The facts are quite clear, first of all SS and Medicare have no business being part of the deficit just like the funds generated over years should never have been borrowed to fund gov't spending items. Second, corporate taxes are irrelevant but the people working their aren't and that is where the difference comes in. You want to ignore the benefits corporations provide for the state and local communities by simply focusing on Federal revenue which is what the left always does. How does a state get more revenue when the federal gov't raises taxes?

Stop letting the left make a fool out of you and it is you cherry picking numbers. 321 billion of the current fiscal year deficit is due to SS and Medicare and Interest expense also is bigger this year vs. last year but your cry remains, "TAX THE RICH!!" as you continue to make excuses for massive entitlement and gov't spending that creates dependence

This answer is precisely what I am talking about when it comes to your credibility.

Agreeing with something Trump did as a matter of principle does not remove how things really work. "SS and Medicare have no business being part of the deficit (i.e. budget)" is a political position you may have, but all government ran funds operate the same way meaning your rhetoric is useless.

No matter how you think it should work every single cent coming into Social Security (for example) is immediately exchanged for special issued intergovernmental debt every single day, with those funds ending up in the general ledger. All as a matter of law. Also, every single dollar paid out of Social Security is paid for by cashing in aged special issued intergovernmental debt down to the cent with that check coming from the general ledger. Every transaction between the Social Security "Trust Fund" and the general ledger is reported, and the "Status" of the Trust Fund comes down to the trend in how much of that special intergovernmental debt is held down to the penny. Based on the economy and relation of inbound to outbound tells us the health of the Fund.

What that means is from a budget position every source of revenue ends up in a giant pool just as every expenditure comes out of that pool. Any action taken by the government that impacts any revenue or expenditure determines their relation and results in either deficit or surplus. Social Security is not excluded, nor is Medicare. They all matter, none are excluded no matter how clever your argument is that they should be. They are not, period. Mandatory, non-mandatory, by department, by fund, whatever else... it is all spending, all outlays. Revenue from Corporate Taxes, Individual Taxes, Fees, Withholding for Social Security or Medicare... it is all revenue, all in the pool of the general ledger. All as a matter of law.

The point of this conversation is lowering revenue from any source and keeping spending the same or increasing for any, many, or all areas of spending results in new deficits and additions to Debt.

It does not matter if some politician wanted something that did not happen, what did happen in terms of revenues and outlays is what matters to our deficit or surplus condition. Your own example illustrates what Republicans in the 115th did. Deficits are increasing for a multitude of reasons, you do not get to save Trump's tax cuts from the discussion just because ideologically you agree with them... those cuts did not occur in a vacuum and deficits jumping was impacted by his cuts, just as it was impacted by other things that make up a fiscal year result.

Again, your own source confirms all this. Nothing in the entire PDF supports your political desire for "what it should be." You can claim all you want that one action is good, the others are bad, and ignore the fiscal year result... but it kills whatever credibility you had left when you use the very source that tells us the actual results of all the President and associated Congresses actions.
 
Last edited:
OrphanSlug;1070225291]This answer is precisely what I am talking about when it comes to your credibility.

Agreeing with something Trump did as a matter of principle does not remove how things really work. "SS and Medicare have no business being part of the deficit (i.e. budget)" is a political position you may have, but all government ran funds operate the same way meaning your rhetoric is useless.

No matter how you think it should work every single cent coming into Social Security (for example) is immediately exchanged for special issued intergovernmental debt every single day, with those funds ending up in the general ledger. All as a matter of law. Also, every single dollar paid out of Social Security is paid for by cashing in aged special issued intergovernmental debt down to the cent with that check coming from the general ledger. Every transaction between the Social Security "Trust Fund" and the general ledger is reported, and the "Status" of the Trust Fund comes down to the trend in how much of that special intergovernmental debt is held down to the penny.

Spoken like that typical poorly informed liberal, SS and Medicare were never on budget until LBJ put it there as he created the unified budget and the Federal bureaucrats borrowed from that fund replacing the money with IOU's that have to be paid for when cashed in. your problem continues to be touting the increase in deficit by Trump when he had absolutely nothing to do with the 321 billion shortfall for SS and Medicare part of the 2019 deficit which has been called "skyrocketing" the deficit. The reality is most of the deficit increases are coming from SS, medicare and interest expense increases. That is reality so stop buying what the media tells you

The rest of your post is irrelevant and nothing more than words spoken by an out of touch liberal who cannot admit when wrong
 
Spoken like that typical poorly informed liberal, SS and Medicare were never on budget until LBJ put it there as he created the unified budget and the Federal bureaucrats borrowed from that fund replacing the money with IOU's that have to be paid for when cashed in. your problem continues to be touting the increase in deficit by Trump when he had absolutely nothing to do with the 321 billion shortfall for SS and Medicare part of the 2019 deficit which has been called "skyrocketing" the deficit. The reality is most of the deficit increases are coming from SS, medicare and interest expense increases. That is reality so stop buying what the media tells you

The rest of your post is irrelevant and nothing more than words spoken by an out of touch liberal who cannot admit when wrong

Your own post is a giant and predictable contradiction. You speak about when and under whom we ended up with a unified budget that made all of this function a certain way... all by law... then turn around and continue to try to segregate revenue and outlays as if they are not unified.

Lastly you turn around and claim someone else is wrong.

... about that credibility of yours.
 
Your own post is a giant and predictable contradiction. You speak about when and under whom we ended up with a unified budget that made all of this function a certain way... all by law... then turn around and continue to try to segregate revenue and outlays as if they are not unified.

Lastly you turn around and claim someone else is wrong.

... about that credibility of yours.

Yes, all by law, legal but that doesn't change the fact that the deficit is skyrocketing because of SS, Medicare, and Interest expenses, NOT Trump spending!!
 
Yes, all by law, legal but that doesn't change the fact that the deficit is skyrocketing because of SS, Medicare, and Interest expenses, NOT Trump spending!!

You're failing to acknowledge the revenue side of the ledger (along with other spending initiatives you support) out of a composition of partisanship and ignorance. This approach does nothing to refute the point OrphanSlug has made. Hence, you've lost this exchange (and by an unimaginable amount none the less).
 
Yes, all by law, legal but that doesn't change the fact that the deficit is skyrocketing because of SS, Medicare, and Interest expenses, NOT Trump spending!!

... and you continue to ignore revenue (taxes, in this case Corporate taxes)

TaxReceiptsCorporateIncome.jpg

and as such continue to ignore deficits...

FederalDeficitAnnual.jpg

Our total fiscal position in any given year is a condition of all revenue to all spending functions, you do not get to sever one out you agree with and blame the rest... just cause.
 
... and you continue to ignore revenue (taxes, in this case Corporate taxes)

View attachment 67258376

and as such continue to ignore deficits...

View attachment 67258377

Our total fiscal position in any given year is a condition of all revenue to all spending functions, you do not get to sever one out you agree with and blame the rest... just cause.

What part of SS, Medicare, and Interest expense being over half the deficit don't you understand? Revenue for SS and Medicare form Payroll taxes(FICA) are supposed to fund SS and Medicare but politicians borrowed the money. you think corporate taxes should fund that shortfall? Total fiscal position is ignored, exploding deficits are the result of spending mostly entitlement spending increases and there isn't enough corporate tax revenue which right now is only down 10 billion from last year at the same time to make up for those spending increases.

people like you love to spend in the name of compassion without looking at the results of that spending. Money was borrowed from SS and Medicare, used for other items and now you want corporations and individuals to make up the shortfall. People are taxed once for SS and Medicare so you now want them to have their taxes raised to fund those programs? That is truly liberal logic
 
Money was borrowed from SS and Medicare, used for other items and now you want corporations and individuals to make up the shortfall. People are taxed once for SS and Medicare so you now want them to have their taxes raised to fund those programs? That is truly liberal logic

What's the alternative? Your political party had full control of government and did nothing to address spending (so they could avoid being swept out of office), and cut a massive hole in baseline revenue. Republicans no longer control the HoR, and will soon lose the Senate and Presidency in upcoming elections. At that point, we will already be in a recession primarily exacerbated by poor economic policy (stimulus with full employment). Then you will belly ache about Democrats causing the recession because they took the house in 2018, call for additional tax and spending cuts, and claim Trump wasn't given a chance.

Thread is bookmarked for future reference.
 
You're failing to acknowledge the revenue side of the ledger (along with other spending initiatives you support) out of a composition of partisanship and ignorance. This approach does nothing to refute the point OrphanSlug has made. Hence, you've lost this exchange (and by an unimaginable amount none the less).

You don't want your tax cut be the first liberal to send it back, Revenue is UP as is SS, Medicare, and Interest expenses which consume over half the budget deficit. Raising taxes has consequences which you want to ignore, it hurts state, local expenses, and charities, always has and always will. In addition interest rate hikes affect consumer consumption thus impacts GDP. Reality sucks to you, doesn't it?
 
You don't want your tax cut be the first liberal to send it back, Revenue is UP as is SS, Medicare, and Interest expenses which consume over half the budget deficit. Raising taxes has consequences which you want to ignore, it hurts state, local expenses, and charities, always has and always will. In addition interest rate hikes affect consumer consumption thus impacts GDP. Reality sucks to you, doesn't it?

What is your preferred legislative agenda regarding the Budget and appropriations?
 
Revenue is UP

It's roughly $200 billion less than it would have been sans tax cuts.

Raising taxes has consequences which you want to ignore

When the tax cuts expired for the highest income bracket in 2012, what were the consequences to both revenue and the deficit? You won't answer because you don't have enough courage or integrity.

In addition interest rate hikes affect consumer consumption thus impacts GDP. Reality sucks to you, doesn't it?

Show the proof that interest rate hikes have impacted consumer consumption. You can't because it's an ignorant statement. Interest rate hikes impact investment by increasing the cost of credit.
 
What part of SS, Medicare, and Interest expense being over half the deficit don't you understand? Revenue for SS and Medicare form Payroll taxes(FICA) are supposed to fund SS and Medicare but politicians borrowed the money. you think corporate taxes should fund that shortfall? Total fiscal position is ignored, exploding deficits are the result of spending mostly entitlement spending increases and there isn't enough corporate tax revenue which right now is only down 10 billion from last year at the same time to make up for those spending increases.

people like you love to spend in the name of compassion without looking at the results of that spending. Money was borrowed from SS and Medicare, used for other items and now you want corporations and individuals to make up the shortfall. People are taxed once for SS and Medicare so you now want them to have their taxes raised to fund those programs? That is truly liberal logic

Now all you are doing is mixing up subjects in an effort to recover, cherry picking what part of spending is to deficit and what part is presumably covered by revenue (which the budget does not do nor does your own link,) and turning around only to... triple down... on us having a unified budget but also deciding it should be otherwise anyway... just cause you say so.

Exploding deficits are our total fiscal position now, Trump's tax cuts contributed to that no matter how much you suggest his actions are isolated from all other fiscal realities.

Lastly, go find where I said anything supporting this nonsense you spewed... "you now want them to have their taxes raised to fund those programs? That is truly liberal logic."

I know, "liberal this" and "liberal that"... all that does is diminish your argument, as if it could get any worse.
 
What is your preferred legislative agenda regarding the Budget and appropriations?

He wishes FICA surpluses were pooled into a massive savings account. :lol:
 
He wishes FICA surpluses were pooled into a massive savings account. :lol:

Yes, then we could payout the trust fund to people when they retire based on the amounts they paid into it. What a brilliant idea.
 
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