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Deficits are exploding – and neither party seems to care

Conservative said:
Why are you calling for FIT increases to pay for SS, Medicare?
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I'm calling for FIT increases during a stronger phase of the economic cycle to reduce the deficit. Good economic policy dictates deficit growth during economic slowdowns and deficit reduction during expansion. You're so hell bent on defending your ideology that you've refused to partake in reality.
 
Conservative said:
You continue to divert from the thread topic
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You make things up in this thread even after being educated on the matter to push your ideology. Refusal to acknowledge a serious error, even after i've explained how and why you are wrong regarding the interest expense from the budget line item, is a sign of dishonesty. You are a liar for continuing with the lies.

as if the amount of debt matters
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A most questionable remark, given your obsession with the debt between 2008 and 2017.

as the debt service still is the reason for the deficit growth
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This is another lie.

Like it or not FICA funds SS and Medicare
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Like it or not, FICA payments built a massive trust fund that will be made whole using additional sources. By around 2030, the Trust fund will be exhausted.

yet you blame Trump showing intellectual dishonesty
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Trump promised to balance the budget. Trump promised that the economic growth from his tax cuts would be soooooooooooooooo massive, subsequent revenue growth would counteract any spending growth. Your party had control of government and failed to act on deficit reduction, even though that's what they've been campaigning for since 2008. You bought the lie, and are so ashamed of the actual results, that you deflect by creating your own set of lies as excuses. Why would anyone take you seriously? You've been wrong about everything!
 
Kushinator said:
I'm calling for FIT increases during a stronger phase of the economic cycle to reduce the deficit. Good economic policy dictates deficit growth during economic slowdowns and deficit reduction during expansion. You're so hell bent on defending your ideology that you've refused to partake in reality.
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That doesn't solve the spending problem. Why reward bureaucrats and not taxpayers?

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Kushinator said:
You make things up in this thread even after being educated on the matter to push your ideology. Refusal to acknowledge a serious error, even after i've explained how and why you are wrong regarding the interest expense from the budget line item, is a sign of dishonesty. You are a liar for continuing with the lies.



A most questionable remark, given your obsession with the debt between 2008 and 2017.



This is another lie.



Like it or not, FICA payments built a massive trust fund that will be made whole using additional sources. By around 2030, the Trust fund will be exhausted.



Trump promised to balance the budget. Trump promised that the economic growth from his tax cuts would be soooooooooooooooo massive, subsequent revenue growth would counteract any spending growth. Your party had control of government and failed to act on deficit reduction, even though that's what they've been campaigning for since 2008. You bought the lie, and are so ashamed of the actual results, that you deflect by creating your own set of lies as excuses. Why would anyone take you seriously? You've been wrong about everything!
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My obsession with the debt was the bailout of unions and the public sector that caused that debt. No benefit to the taxpayers nor the private sector. Anemic job creation and economic activity. Reality does exist in your world

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Conservative said:
That doesn't solve the spending problem.
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Never claimed that it addresses expenditures... only that it would reduce the deficit.

Why reward bureaucrats and not taxpayers?
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Why did Republicans fail to reduce spending with their majority?
 
Conservative said:
My obsession with the debt was the bailout of unions and the public sector that caused that debt. No benefit to the taxpayers nor the private sector.
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All federal expenditures flow into the private sector, either through direct transfer payments that are used by private citizens to purchase real goods and services, or through contracts for goods/services (from the private sector) rendered.

Anemic job creation and economic activity.
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It's the same (if not better) job creation as today (which you hilariously call a success).

Reality does exist in your world
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Such a powerful statement.
 
Kushinator said:
Never claimed that it addresses expenditures... only that it would reduce the deficit.



Why did Republicans fail to reduce spending with their majority?
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No guarantee that it will reduce the deficit but it will reduce economic activity and state revenue

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Kushinator said:
All federal expenditures flow into the private sector, either through direct transfer payments that are used by private citizens to purchase real goods and services, or through contracts for goods/services (from the private sector) rendered.



It's the same (if not better) job creation as today (which you hilariously call a success).



Such a powerful statement.
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This is predominantly a private sector economy not a public sector one. Federal spending without private sector activity just grows debt

The deficit problem remains entitlement and debt service. Rewarding bureaucrats makes no sense

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jaeger19 said:
Its not dough.

For example.. I own an S corp that's worth more than 50 million of you count tractors, land, buildings, and all sorts of other assets... stuff that's needed to run and operate the corporation.

At times.. because of various reasons.. that particularly corporation ran at a loss or barely broke after payroll etc. It can be the nature of agriculture, or just because the corporation turned its money back into more infrastructure (or example when we upgraded to solar energy).

Well.. if that S corp was taxed on those assets.. despite the fact that there was little profit on those years.. it would have seriously hurt the corporation and jobs. The money would have had to come from selling assets.. or from getting rid of some employees.. or downsizing.. or from deciding NOT to go to solar.

That's what I mean about unintended consequences.. You don't realize that the wealthy.. don't generally keep their wealth.. in cookie jars.. or even in back accounts.. a lot of time its in things like property and businesses.. that may have much more in "asset value"... but may not be generating income.
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Could you estimate for us how much how much in taxes your company generates in payroll and sales taxes? IOW, your employees pay taxes, and you pay sales tax on the items necessary to keep the business producing.

People need to be reminded that every dollar of tax revenue originated in the private sector.
 
Conservative said:
No guarantee that it will reduce the deficit
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Can you point out a time where tax increases (specifically on the highest income earned) resulted in a deficit growth?

I predict you just ignore this request for you to back up your own claims.

but it will reduce economic activity and state revenue
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You don't provide any evidence to support these claims. What happened in 2013?
 
Conservative said:
This is predominantly a private sector economy not a public sector one.
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WTF does this have to do with anything I've stated???

Federal spending without private sector activity just grows debt
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Did you not read anything you decided to quote?

The deficit problem remains entitlement and debt service. Rewarding bureaucrats makes no sense
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I don't care about your opinions, nor can they be used to support other opinions.

You still haven't fessed up for being a liar.
 
Kushinator said:
WTF does this have to do with anything I've stated???



Did you not read anything you decided to quote?



I don't care about your opinions, nor can they be used to support other opinions.

You still haven't fessed up for being a liar.
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I really don't give a damm what you think of me or how I post! I will respond to posts the way I feel like responding! The deficit is being caused by entitlement and debt service spending so if you're going to reduce the deficit you have to address the problem and raising taxes doesn't address the problem

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Kushinator said:
Can you point out a time where tax increases (specifically on the highest income earned) resulted in a deficit growth?

I predict you just ignore this request for you to back up your own claims.



You don't provide any evidence to support these claims. What happened in 2013?
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We have had deficits for decades so raising taxes doesn't solve the problem of too much spending! Entitlements have to be reformed And bureaucrats have to be held accountable for the abuse of the entitlement trust funds



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Conservative said:
The deficit is being caused by entitlement and debt service spending so if you're going to reduce the deficit you have to address the problem and raising taxes doesn't address the problem
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Republicans failed to address spending with their time in power. They did manage to cut taxes, which has widened the deficit as a result of lost revenue. You don't care about spending... you don't care about deficits or debt. It's just an empty talking point when your party begins to lose power.
 
Conservative said:
We have had deficits for decades so raising taxes doesn't solve the problem
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Deficits aren't a problem in and of itself. It's when deficit growth exceeds GDP growth where the imbalance accumulates.

Here is reality:

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Entitlements have to be reformed And bureaucrats have to be held accountable for the abuse of the entitlement trust funds
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Empty rhetoric. Republicans failed to address any spending issues, instead opting for a reduction in revenue from the baseline. That action has only exacerbated any deficit growth.
 
Kushinator said:
Republicans failed to address spending with their time in power. They did manage to cut taxes, which has widened the deficit as a result of lost revenue. You don't care about spending... you don't care about deficits or debt. It's just an empty talking point when your party begins to lose power.
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No, the deficit widened not because of spending but because neither party is going to address entitlements. You want to blame Republicans but that is what radicals always do. you are going to have a choice in 2020, Trump or the Various Socialist Democrats running. I will be voting for Trump again as the results warrant that vote and his 1.47 trillion dollar discretionary budget with more than that coming in from Federal and Corporate taxes
 
Kushinator said:
Deficits aren't a problem in and of itself. It's when deficit growth exceeds GDP growth where the imbalance accumulates.

Here is reality:

42ba8332a0.png




Empty rhetoric. Republicans failed to address any spending issues, instead opting for a reduction in revenue from the baseline. That action has only exacerbated any deficit growth.
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Maybe a civics class will help you understand the budget and Congressional responsibility regarding that budget. As usual your line chart shows TOTAL FEDERAL EXPENDITURES not individual line items. Did Trump propose spending cuts?? yes or no? you think the Democrats are going to cut spending?? I prefer rewarding the taxpayers and not bureaucrats thus support the tax cuts. There has been no reduction in revenue and state and local governments are prospering. by the way thanks for your increase in federal taxes due to the inability to deduct all your high state and local taxes, about time !
 
Ikari said:
When has either side given a rats ass about our deficit spending? Republicans and Democrats alike are big government, big spending, big debt parties. It's only an issue when the other guy is in office.
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If you want to get technical, the debt doesn't really matter as long as 1) You've got overall growth in your economy and 2) you can make the minimum payments and 3) The debt isn't massively ahead of the GDP, such as Japan, which has a 2:1 debt ratio.
 
Kushinator said:
Republicans failed to address spending with their time in power. They did manage to cut taxes, which has widened the deficit as a result of lost revenue. You don't care about spending... you don't care about deficits or debt. It's just an empty talking point when your party begins to lose power.
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LOL, same tired old rhetoric and bullying tactics. Trump proposed spending cuts and the Democrats failed to support those cuts, now the Democrats are in charge of the House, think they are going to cut spending? In your dreams. I supported Trump in 2016 because he pissed off both party establishments and will vote for him again. His Discretionary budget for 2018 and 2019 not only was paid for by FIT and Corporate taxes but the tax cuts stimulated strong economic activity and consumer spending thus benefiting the state and local governments but a big gov't liberal like doesn't like that.
 
Kushinator said:
WTF does this have to do with anything I've stated???



Did you not read anything you decided to quote?



I don't care about your opinions, nor can they be used to support other opinions.

You still haven't fessed up for being a liar.
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This is a reminder, I will hold Trump accountable for the results AFTER 8 years not two when his first budget year was 2018. So far I am getting exactly what I voted for, 1.7 trillion dollars added to GDP, almost 5 million NEW jobs created not returning jobs like Obama's, and strong state and local revenue collection thus massive infrastructure spending.

I will remind the left that over 2 trillion dollars was borrowed from SS and Medicare trust funds and never repaid. Discretionary spending is more than being paid for by the FIT and Corporate taxes but 7 interest rate hikes and entitlement spending increases caused most of the deficit increase in 2018. Strong economic growth, job creation, and a private sector motivated has led to the Trump economic approval ratings over 50% and no President has ever lost re-election with over 50% approval on the economy. If Trump's numbers remain this high next year he will continue the trend
 
Mr. Invisible said:
If you want to get technical, the debt doesn't really matter as long as 1) You've got overall growth in your economy and 2) you can make the minimum payments and 3) The debt isn't massively ahead of the GDP, such as Japan, which has a 2:1 debt ratio.
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But even Japan keeps issuing more fiat money and they are doing great. Does everyone realize that the entire debt can be paid with a stroke of a pen or a finger tapping a keyboard? None of the money is real anyway, it serves our purposes, that is it. We can never, ever run out of money. My lord.
 
You are responding to the same quote on multiple instances, failing to address the statements that have been quoted.

The fail is strong with you.
 
Kushinator said:
You are responding to the same quote on multiple instances, failing to address the statements that have been quoted.

The fail is strong with you.
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And you keep focusing on federal revenue ignoring the impact federal tax increases have on state and local revenue that relies on consumer spending. Fail is a term you use a lot but never on yourself. FACT, tax cuts reward the American people, tax hikes reward the bureaucrats. I support rewarding the American people.
 
OrphanSlug said:
A few "conservatives" will be here any minute to talk about this in terms of this all being Democrats fault anyway, no matter what Trump and Republicans have done during the time of the 115th Congress.
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Conservative Republicans really don't care about the deficit - never have since the Reagan-era. As long as they can keep "the multiplier affect" going by growing a broader tax base (that is, gaining more and more taxpayers OR having what few taxpayers there are at or near the bottom pay a higher portion of taxes over a longer period of time) they're fine with growing the deficit. At least Obama was honest about it when he said "as long as we can service the interest on the debt, we'll be fine." But to so-called conservative Republicans, "deficits don't matter".
 
chuckiechan said:
Corporate taxes are down due to reinvestment. The China tariffs are causing US mfg’s to purchase new equipment to take advantage of filling the supply chain China is priced out of. That “lost” corporate money comes back in wages due to increased hiring.
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I don't disagree with you. In fact, I believe this was part of Trump's plan in creating this tariff war with China. However, his bigger goal is to completely remove manufacturing that was once done in China back to the U.S. as oppose to established domestic manufacturers simply re-tooling their factors. To do that, he'll have to either:

a) open up new industries;

b) create the economic environment/conditions where by those manufacturing jobs that were once out-sourced can repatriate back to the U.S. without costing them a fortune; or,

c) reeve up the military industrial complex.

I see c) happening alot faster than a) or b) but it's certainly a way to put Americans back to work in those rust belt factories and hopefully "Make America Great Again".
 
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