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Trump's tariffs are equivalent to one of the largest tax increases in decades

kitsune said:
That would be great. Until Western European nations and maybe Japan started demanding that any American company selling products in those countries needs to follow all of the local labor, environmental, and safety regs. The scream of outrage from Washington and its corporate masters would be deafening.
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It sure would. We known who owns our government, and it's not "we the people."
 
More and more Democrats are freaking out over the prospect of losing their slaves in foreign child/slave sweatshops.

Just as the Democratic Party justified slavery as necessary for cheaper goods prior to and as justification of the Civil War, they make the exact same furious defense of their slavery products now. Then, now and forever the Democratic Party WILL be the party of slavery, inequality and slavery. To the Democratic Party everyone is measured by their race.

Racism, slavery, oppression and social divisions remains at the very heart of the Democratic Party. To many Democrats live isn't worth living if they can save a quarter on non-white slave labor products and non-white inferior immigrant servants. The level of racism in the Democratic Party in many ways is as evil now as it was prior to the Civil War furiously demanding and loving the oppressive, brutal enslavement of and racism against non-white people for personal profit at the suffering of others.
 
phattonez said:
There isn't any evidence that wage growth increased was significantly stronger after the 1950s. In fact it's quite the contrary. We have had zero to negative wage growth since the 1970s when tariffs were all but eliminated.

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Lack of correlation does not equate to causation. Really, ever. It may indicate, as in this case, that they are unrelated. Which, of course, is unresponsive, in any event. All you have provided is non-evidence, nothing to support your assertions.
 
wellwisher said:
The four main points, the left misses, is the counties that are being tariffed, have high tariffs and obstructions on US goods. The amount the Trump is imposing is not even equal to what they do to the US. Trump is making the playing field, closer to level. The real complaint in Washington is a level playing field makes less margin for political shakedowns, kickbacks and donations.

The second point is the left does not understand international trade at the level of importers and exporters. This is where bulk buying occurs and where factory schedules are made for many years in advance. These contracts are set for the long term, and include estimates in future tariffs, future raw materials, future labor costs, future utilities such as oil, etc. The net result is these contracts are like a large ship being turned by a small rudder of tariffs. It does not turn on a dime, but the turn is very gradual, since tariffs were already negotiated even before Trump did anything. The middle men; wholesaler and retailers, may use media deception to cash in on the faux media expectation, to raise some prices.

The third point is China and Mexico are not the only countries in the world that can make products sold in the US. Selective tariffs on certain countries, like China, makes other smaller countries better able to compete. This check and balance requires China and Mexico hold down prices, at the risk of losing future sales. Viet Nam, Indonesia and others would love to see more exports. This threat of new competitors offsets some of the turn in the large ship.

With the ship slowly turning, it makes more and more sense for US manufacturing to get ahead of the ship, and try to pick up the slack. They invest in new factories and create jobs. Trump will make it easy for the off-shore money to be brought home, with investment in new factories, a way to make money; GNP increase.
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Contrary to what you wrote, the U.S. doesn't face 'tariffs obstructing sales of our goods.' With a few exceptions, we have pretty much free-trade among partners -- that is, until Trump came out and added tariffs on foes and allies alike.

Farmers have already been hurt badly by the retaliation from China, which has sent prices for crops like soybeans plunging. U.S. industry, which has invested huge sums in a supply chain that sprawls across both our northern and southern borders, is horrified at the thought of a confrontation that disrupts trade with Mexico.

Until recently, business and investors were, in effect, betting that with so much money at stake, even Trump would rein in his impulses, that on trade he would talk loudly but carry a small stick. That’s pretty much what seemed to have happened on Nafta, the North American Free Trade Agreement: after denouncing Nafta as the worst trade deal ever made, Trump negotiated a new deal so similar to the existing one that you need a magnifying glass to see the differences.

But now he’s effectively reneging on his own deal, threatening tariffs unless Mexico does something, he doesn't say exactly what, to prevent asylum-seekers from seeking asylum.

There is no evidence that businesses are moving factories from wherever back to the United States.
 
NWRatCon said:
Lack of correlation does not equate to causation. Really, ever. It may indicate, as in this case, that they are unrelated. Which, of course, is unresponsive, in any event. All you have provided is non-evidence, nothing to support your assertions.
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You said that tariffs were killer for an economy. So why is it that after we get rid of them we have no wage growth, while we had significant wage growth with them?
 
joko104 said:
More and more Democrats are freaking out over the prospect of losing their slaves in foreign child/slave sweatshops.

Just as the Democratic Party justified slavery as necessary for cheaper goods prior to and as justification of the Civil War, they make the exact same furious defense of their slavery products now. Then, now and forever the Democratic Party WILL be the party of slavery, inequality and slavery. To the Democratic Party everyone is measured by their race.

Racism, slavery, oppression and social divisions remains at the very heart of the Democratic Party. To many Democrats live isn't worth living if they can save a quarter on non-white slave labor products and non-white inferior immigrant servants. The level of racism in the Democratic Party in many ways is as evil now as it was prior to the Civil War furiously demanding and loving the oppressive, brutal enslavement of and racism against non-white people for personal profit at the suffering of others.
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Just stop. This isn't a partisan issue. Both parties are bought off by big business, and neither party has done anything to put an end to exploitation of foreign workers. Trump is slowly implementing the policy, but he's getting a ton of backlash from the establishment of the party.
 
MTAtech said:
Farmers have already been hurt badly by the retaliation from China, which has sent prices for crops like soybeans plunging.
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Won't anyone pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee think of Monsanto?!!!!
 
The corporate super rich really do rely upon people's true complete ignorance for which they can rant exactly based on what is 100% exactly opposite the truth - and many - most of all many Democrats - join in the ranting.

Only a TRULY ignorant person does not understand that a 5% tariff against Mexican products is a 5% tax against Mexico, not Americans and the USA. THAT'S WHAT A TARIFF IS!

It is incomprehensible that anyone on a political debate forum doesn't know something that simple and obvious.
 
phattonez said:
You said that tariffs were killer for an economy. So why is it that after we get rid of them we have no wage growth, while we had significant wage growth with them?
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Have you tried doing the same analysis with tax rates? You'll find, similarly, an absence of corollation, because economies are very complex things, and it is very difficult to pin conditions on any particular variable. There are a number of errors in your approach, moreover, but I won't belabor it. As I noted, there is a complete lack of correspondence in your data set (which is also too small to be determinative, or even, really, informative) so it simply doesn't support your assertion.

What is known from years of experience AND analysis is that tariffs are a drag on an economy, and not by a little. They are an extremely slow and inefficient tool for any purpose, but particularly unsuited for brinksmanship. Are Trump's Tariffs Bolstering the U.S. Economy? Nope (NYT); U.S tariffs will slow GDP growth: Congressional Budget Office (Reuters). In short, they're a dumb idea based upon sloppy thinking and will not do any of the things you seem to think they would. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.
 
joko104 said:
The corporate super rich really do rely upon people's true complete ignorance for which they can rant exactly based on what is 100% exactly opposite the truth - and many - most of all many Democrats - join in the ranting.

Only a TRULY ignorant person does not understand that a 5% tariff against Mexican products is a 5% tax against Mexico, not Americans and the USA. THAT'S WHAT A TARIFF IS!

It is incomprehensible that anyone on a political debate forum doesn't know something that simple and obvious.
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Well, if not understanding simple and obvious is a goal, you certainly have that covered in spades.
 
joko104 said:
The corporate super rich really do rely upon people's true complete ignorance for which they can rant exactly based on what is 100% exactly opposite the truth - and many - most of all many Democrats - join in the ranting.

Only a TRULY ignorant person does not understand that a 5% tariff against Mexican products is a 5% tax against Mexico, not Americans and the USA. THAT'S WHAT A TARIFF IS!

It is incomprehensible that anyone on a political debate forum doesn't know something that simple and obvious.
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It is the American people who pay the tariff not the Mexicans
all they will do is increase the price of their goods and the American people will be paying it
it might as well be a tax
Have a nice day
 
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