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Why does everyone hate mmt?

JP Hochbaum

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This is a great breakdown of a non-bias finance expert breakdown MMT.

https://www.gmo.com/globalassets/ar...FwmS4_G5E5VyIyJx-D_DuTdTr7IEj_4A2-hP-VUOkBvUU

"Many of the negative articles I’ve read about MMT use the tried and tested method
of setting up a straw man purely for the purposes of knocking him down. So, to avoid confusion, I will lay out a simple and straightforward description of what MMT is, or at least what I believe the most important elements of MMT are.

1.Money is a creature of the state. Money is effectively an IOU. Anyone can issue money; the trouble is getting it accepted. The ability to impose taxes (or other obligations) makes a country’s ‘money’ valuable.

2.Understanding the monetary environment is vital. The monetary regime under which a country operates matters. Any country that issues debt only in its own currency and has a floating currency can be thought of as being monetarily sovereign. This means it cannot be forced to default on its debt (i.e. the U.S., Japan, and the UK, but not the Eurozone or most emerging markets).

3.An operational description of the monetary system is critical. Understanding that loans create deposits (which in turn create reserves, aka endogenous money) is a much more realistic starting point than the mainstream view that deposits create loans. For example, knowing that government de cit spending creates reserves and drives down interest rates is vital to understanding Japan’s bond market.

4.Functional nance, not sound nance.1 Fiscal policy is much more potent than monetary policy. Fiscal policy should be aimed at generating full employment while maintaining low in inflation (rather than, say, achieving a balanced budget position). A Job Guarantee scheme is an example of a useful policy option to effect this outcome (acting like a bu er stock in a commodity market) in the eyes of MMT.

5. Limits are real resource and ecological limits. If any sector of the economy pushes it beyond the limits of capacity, then in inflation will result. If a government spends too much or taxes too little, it can create inflation, but there is nothing unique about the government sector in this regard. These are the limits that matter – people, machines, factories – not ‘ financing’ constraints.

6. Private debt matters. Even in a monetarily sovereign state, private debt matters. The private sector cannot print money to repay its debts. As such, it has the potential to create a systemic vulnerability. Think Minsky’s finnancial instability hypothesis: stability begets instability.

7. Macro accounting (Godley style) keeps us honest. One sector’s debt is another’s asset. So, the government’s debt is the private sector’s asset. Understanding how one sector relates to another using a sectoral balance framework is very helpful, as is understanding the Kalecki pro ts equation, or the way reserves work in a finnancial system. Accounting isn’t glamourous and identities shouldn’t be taken as behaviours, but they can help us spot unsustainable situations."
 
This is a great breakdown of a non-bias finance expert breakdown MMT.

https://www.gmo.com/globalassets/ar...FwmS4_G5E5VyIyJx-D_DuTdTr7IEj_4A2-hP-VUOkBvUU

"Many of the negative articles I’ve read about MMT use the tried and tested method
of setting up a straw man purely for the purposes of knocking him down. So, to avoid confusion, I will lay out a simple and straightforward description of what MMT is, or at least what I believe the most important elements of MMT are.

1.Money is a creature of the state. Money is effectively an IOU. Anyone can issue money; the trouble is getting it accepted. The ability to impose taxes (or other obligations) makes a country’s ‘money’ valuable.

2.Understanding the monetary environment is vital. The monetary regime under which a country operates matters. Any country that issues debt only in its own currency and has a floating currency can be thought of as being monetarily sovereign. This means it cannot be forced to default on its debt (i.e. the U.S., Japan, and the UK, but not the Eurozone or most emerging markets).

3.An operational description of the monetary system is critical. Understanding that loans create deposits (which in turn create reserves, aka endogenous money) is a much more realistic starting point than the mainstream view that deposits create loans. For example, knowing that government de cit spending creates reserves and drives down interest rates is vital to understanding Japan’s bond market.

4.Functional nance, not sound nance.1 Fiscal policy is much more potent than monetary policy. Fiscal policy should be aimed at generating full employment while maintaining low in inflation (rather than, say, achieving a balanced budget position). A Job Guarantee scheme is an example of a useful policy option to effect this outcome (acting like a bu er stock in a commodity market) in the eyes of MMT.

5. Limits are real resource and ecological limits. If any sector of the economy pushes it beyond the limits of capacity, then in inflation will result. If a government spends too much or taxes too little, it can create inflation, but there is nothing unique about the government sector in this regard. These are the limits that matter – people, machines, factories – not ‘ financing’ constraints.

6. Private debt matters. Even in a monetarily sovereign state, private debt matters. The private sector cannot print money to repay its debts. As such, it has the potential to create a systemic vulnerability. Think Minsky’s finnancial instability hypothesis: stability begets instability.

7. Macro accounting (Godley style) keeps us honest. One sector’s debt is another’s asset. So, the government’s debt is the private sector’s asset. Understanding how one sector relates to another using a sectoral balance framework is very helpful, as is understanding the Kalecki pro ts equation, or the way reserves work in a finnancial system. Accounting isn’t glamourous and identities shouldn’t be taken as behaviours, but they can help us spot unsustainable situations."

Oh please. You socialists have been hammered over and over on this stupid theory which claims that money grows on trees. It doesn't. Here is a picture of a money tree. Hint, it has leaves on it, not money.

money tree plant - Yahoo Image Search Results
 
Oh please. You socialists have been hammered over and over on this stupid theory which claims that money grows on trees. It doesn't. Here is a picture of a money tree. Hint, it has leaves on it, not money.

money tree plant - Yahoo Image Search Results
1. MMT =/ Socialists, I am a libertarian who enjoys having an economic system where coercion of federal government debt/deficits and balancing budgets are no longer concerns to create more economic freedom by drastically reducing taxes. MMT proves that monetary/fiscal constraints are resources, not tax revenues.

2. MMT doesn't claim that money grows on trees. It clearly states that the federal government has monopoly over the USD and CAN print at will, not that it SHOULD print at will.
 
This is a great breakdown of a non-bias finance expert breakdown MMT.

https://www.gmo.com/globalassets/ar...FwmS4_G5E5VyIyJx-D_DuTdTr7IEj_4A2-hP-VUOkBvUU

"Many of the negative articles I’ve read about MMT use the tried and tested method
of setting up a straw man purely for the purposes of knocking him down. So, to avoid confusion, I will lay out a simple and straightforward description of what MMT is, or at least what I believe the most important elements of MMT are.

1.Money is a creature of the state. Money is effectively an IOU. Anyone can issue money; the trouble is getting it accepted. The ability to impose taxes (or other obligations) makes a country’s ‘money’ valuable.

2.Understanding the monetary environment is vital. The monetary regime under which a country operates matters. Any country that issues debt only in its own currency and has a floating currency can be thought of as being monetarily sovereign. This means it cannot be forced to default on its debt (i.e. the U.S., Japan, and the UK, but not the Eurozone or most emerging markets).

3.An operational description of the monetary system is critical. Understanding that loans create deposits (which in turn create reserves, aka endogenous money) is a much more realistic starting point than the mainstream view that deposits create loans. For example, knowing that government de cit spending creates reserves and drives down interest rates is vital to understanding Japan’s bond market.

4.Functional nance, not sound nance.1 Fiscal policy is much more potent than monetary policy. Fiscal policy should be aimed at generating full employment while maintaining low in inflation (rather than, say, achieving a balanced budget position). A Job Guarantee scheme is an example of a useful policy option to effect this outcome (acting like a bu er stock in a commodity market) in the eyes of MMT.

5. Limits are real resource and ecological limits. If any sector of the economy pushes it beyond the limits of capacity, then in inflation will result. If a government spends too much or taxes too little, it can create inflation, but there is nothing unique about the government sector in this regard. These are the limits that matter – people, machines, factories – not ‘ financing’ constraints.

6. Private debt matters. Even in a monetarily sovereign state, private debt matters. The private sector cannot print money to repay its debts. As such, it has the potential to create a systemic vulnerability. Think Minsky’s finnancial instability hypothesis: stability begets instability.

7. Macro accounting (Godley style) keeps us honest. One sector’s debt is another’s asset. So, the government’s debt is the private sector’s asset. Understanding how one sector relates to another using a sectoral balance framework is very helpful, as is understanding the Kalecki pro ts equation, or the way reserves work in a finnancial system. Accounting isn’t glamourous and identities shouldn’t be taken as behaviours, but they can help us spot unsustainable situations."

Economic folks don;t "hate" MMT. Its simply that MMT is basically a gimmick.. a marketing gimmick.

Anyone in economics understands our money system and banking system. Seriously.. do really think that economists.. don't understand how a fiat currency works... and suddenly MMT.. has figured it out?

the issue with MMT.. is those folks promoting it. They act like MMT is something new.. something revolutionary... when its not. Its how a fiat currency works and folks have understood this for decades since we got completely off the gold standard.

Also.. the folks that promote MMT.. also use it to promote the idea that the government should virtually "print at will"...

Oh sure.. when called on it.. they go.. "well not in all situations"... and you ask when and then its "well when resources are scarce or there isn;t enough stuff to buy"... things like that.

Well.. that only works.. if people didn;t change their behavior based on their impressions. But people do. People are concerned about deficits.. whether they should be or should not be.. isn;t really the issue.. the issue is do they and do they change their behavior accordingly.
And the answer is.. they do.

And when a country with a fiat currency.. is perceived to be pumping more money into the system and creating more debt than is perceived to be sustainable.. then there are consequences for that country. Businesses may decide to pull back or hesitate to grow.. perceiving a potential for crash. People may pull back on spending perceiving a crash.. investors are less likely to invest perceiving a bust following a boom.. etc. .

In addition.. there can be negative effects of boat loads of government spending.. such as crowding out...
 
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1. MMT =/ Socialists, I am a libertarian who enjoys having an economic system where coercion of federal government debt/deficits and balancing budgets are no longer concerns to create more economic freedom by drastically reducing taxes. MMT proves that monetary/fiscal constraints are resources, not tax revenues.

2. MMT doesn't claim that money grows on trees. It clearly states that the federal government has monopoly over the USD and CAN print at will, not that it SHOULD print at will.

We're not opening up debate on this nonsense yet again. It has been debunked many times over. You same guys keep on bringing this nonsense back up every few months hoping for a different audience to con.
 
Maybe the thread should have started by stating what the letters MMT mean.
 
This is a great breakdown of a non-bias finance expert breakdown MMT.

https://www.gmo.com/globalassets/ar...FwmS4_G5E5VyIyJx-D_DuTdTr7IEj_4A2-hP-VUOkBvUU

"Many of the negative articles I’ve read about MMT use the tried and tested method
of setting up a straw man purely for the purposes of knocking him down. So, to avoid confusion, I will lay out a simple and straightforward description of what MMT is, or at least what I believe the most important elements of MMT are.

1.Money is a creature of the state. Money is effectively an IOU. Anyone can issue money; the trouble is getting it accepted. The ability to impose taxes (or other obligations) makes a country’s ‘money’ valuable.

2.Understanding the monetary environment is vital. The monetary regime under which a country operates matters. Any country that issues debt only in its own currency and has a floating currency can be thought of as being monetarily sovereign. This means it cannot be forced to default on its debt (i.e. the U.S., Japan, and the UK, but not the Eurozone or most emerging markets).

3.An operational description of the monetary system is critical. Understanding that loans create deposits (which in turn create reserves, aka endogenous money) is a much more realistic starting point than the mainstream view that deposits create loans. For example, knowing that government de cit spending creates reserves and drives down interest rates is vital to understanding Japan’s bond market.

4.Functional nance, not sound nance.1 Fiscal policy is much more potent than monetary policy. Fiscal policy should be aimed at generating full employment while maintaining low in inflation (rather than, say, achieving a balanced budget position). A Job Guarantee scheme is an example of a useful policy option to effect this outcome (acting like a bu er stock in a commodity market) in the eyes of MMT.

5. Limits are real resource and ecological limits. If any sector of the economy pushes it beyond the limits of capacity, then in inflation will result. If a government spends too much or taxes too little, it can create inflation, but there is nothing unique about the government sector in this regard. These are the limits that matter – people, machines, factories – not ‘ financing’ constraints.

6. Private debt matters. Even in a monetarily sovereign state, private debt matters. The private sector cannot print money to repay its debts. As such, it has the potential to create a systemic vulnerability. Think Minsky’s finnancial instability hypothesis: stability begets instability.

7. Macro accounting (Godley style) keeps us honest. One sector’s debt is another’s asset. So, the government’s debt is the private sector’s asset. Understanding how one sector relates to another using a sectoral balance framework is very helpful, as is understanding the Kalecki pro ts equation, or the way reserves work in a finnancial system. Accounting isn’t glamourous and identities shouldn’t be taken as behaviours, but they can help us spot unsustainable situations."

This is the part MMT gets wrong. Loans do not create deposits, they create at most, debits. Loans are temporary transfers of wealth with the proviso to be transferred back at a certain time plus interest.
 
Economic folks don;t "hate" MMT. Its simply that MMT is basically a gimmick.. a marketing gimmick.

Anyone in economics understands our money system and banking system. Seriously.. do really think that economists.. don't understand how a fiat currency works... and suddenly MMT.. has figured it out?

the issue with MMT.. is those folks promoting it. They act like MMT is something new.. something revolutionary... when its not. Its how a fiat currency works and folks have understood this for decades since we got completely off the gold standard.

Also.. the folks that promote MMT.. also use it to promote the idea that the government should virtually "print at will"...

Oh sure.. when called on it.. they go.. "well not in all situations"... and you ask when and then its "well when resources are scarce or there isn;t enough stuff to buy"... things like that.

Well.. that only works.. if people didn;t change their behavior based on their impressions. But people do. People are concerned about deficits.. whether they should be or should not be.. isn;t really the issue.. the issue is do they and do they change their behavior accordingly.
And the answer is.. they do.

And when a country with a fiat currency.. is perceived to be pumping more money into the system and creating more debt than is perceived to be sustainable.. then there are consequences for that country. Businesses may decide to pull back or hesitate to grow.. perceiving a potential for crash. People may pull back on spending perceiving a crash.. investors are less likely to invest perceiving a bust following a boom.. etc. .

In addition.. there can be negative effects of boat loads of government spending.. such as crowding out...

I agree with most of this. Though I will say that I don't know there is sufficient evidence that people care about deficits. MMT proponents also argue that the budget surpluses of the Clinton years led to reduced saving rates in the private sector. I don't think there is a shred of evidence for that other than they slightly correlate in time frames.
 
I agree with most of this. Though I will say that I don't know there is sufficient evidence that people care about deficits. .

Actually there is.. If you are to go back to polls on what the American public cares about.. (and it varies).. but there are many times in our history when the deficit becomes a very high priority for americans.. across the political spectrum no less.. (usually more for republicans but pretty close for democrats)..

Now.. MMT proponents will point out that we have had a deficit and often raised the deficit without anyone really blinking.. (like Trump has done)...

but the reality is that American fiscal policy has generally been rather constrained. Sure we ran deficits under Reagan... but.. we ended up pulling back under George Bush senior.. and Clinton.. (balanced budget act.. reduced the deficit significantly)...

Obama raised the deficit tremendously.when the economy was tanking.. and when it stabilized.. he curtailed the deficit (despite what the right wing whackdo;s say)..

the problem we have now.. is that because of Trumps tax cuts and increase spending.. the deficit is growing and growing.. in a time of economic increase.. its basically running a deficit for no good reason since its not gaining us much...

And whats going to start to happen.. is that folks are going to get squeamish about this deficit.. and start calling for decreasing the deficit.. and here is the problem.. by the time the calls to decrease the deficit start causing action.. we will possibly be in another cyclical downturn... when we should be increasing the deficit.. but instead.. we will be constrained monetarily...
 
Economic folks don;t "hate" MMT. Its simply that MMT is basically a gimmick.. a marketing gimmick.
I understad how it is viewed hat way. It is almost the exact as chartalism. But what separates MMT from chartalism is the job guarantee as a buffer stock to control inflation.

Anyone in economics understands our money system and banking system. Seriously.. do really think that economists.. don't understand how a fiat currency works... and suddenly MMT.. has figured it out?
Man there are so many that don't understand that we are endogenous.

the issue with MMT.. is those folks promoting it. They act like MMT is something new.. something revolutionary... when its not. Its how a fiat currency works and folks have understood this for decades since we got completely off the gold standard.
That is more an issue with rmchair economists. Most MMT'ers will give the credit to Godley, Kalecki, Galbraith, etc... who helped laid the groundwork.
Ugh formatting, need to get used to this.
 
Ugh formatting, need to get used to this.

no worries..I have trouble to.

As far as job guarantee.. that's not a tenet of MMT.. that comes out of the idea that MMT can spend and spend.. but its not really an MMT idea..

Its kind of like.. "so we have this fiat currency".. (see.. MMT)..... which means: "we can spend on a job guarantee.. and pay people to do work that's not needed"..

but the minute you go "wait..that job guarantee"... MMTers will run from it.. because basically the only "truth" to MMT is that we have a fiat currency.. and what that entails regarding the money supply.

as far as "understanding we are endogenous".. well that's not entirely true.. we are a world economy.. not just the US. Sure.. we are CURRENTLY the largest and most powerful economy and nation in the world.. so we can do a lot of things without consequences NOW.. but that will not always be the case..
that's why MMT and this fiat currency idea doesn;t get a whole lot of actual economists excited.. yep we have a fiat currency..

So does Venezuela

Now.. MMTers.. will be "but but we aren;t even close to being like Venezuela etc etc"... true..and that's in part because the US HAS BEEN RELATIVELY CONSERVATIVE with our spending..

That is more an issue with rmchair economists. Most MMT'ers will give the credit to Godley, Kalecki, Galbraith, etc... who helped laid the groundwork

Right.. from writings that are more than one hundred years ago..

So..like I said..nothing new. Heck.. even you just stated that
Man there are so many that don't understand that we are endogenous.

I mean.. do you really think that economists.. don't understand our banking system or what a fiat currency is? Please.

MMT is meant for the lay people.. to get the lay people to buy books on MMT.. and free money.. and push an agenda.. like I said its a marketing gimmick..
 
We're not opening up debate on this nonsense yet again. It has been debunked many times over. You same guys keep on bringing this nonsense back up every few months hoping for a different audience to con.

People who think they are debunkers are really just sad, lame propagandists. And they use this silly meme as an excuse for their lack of evidence/rational thought.
 
The sectoral balance theory of economic growth is utter nonsense.

It's important to understand that we cannot be constrained of dollars. It is important to understand that money supply growth is not the same as inflation growth. It's important to understand that reserves are necessarily acquired following a loan. And lastly, it is important to be able to distinguish between public and private debt. But to argue that economic slowdowns are a byproduct of not enough deficit spending... well, it has no empirical underpinning.
 
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no worries..I have trouble to.

As far as job guarantee.. that's not a tenet of MMT.. that comes out of the idea that MMT can spend and spend.. but its not really an MMT idea..
Sorry I didn't mean to imply the JG was MMT's idea, but that it is what separates it from chartalism.
 
The sectoral balance theory of economic growth is utter nonsense.
Would you disagree with any of this?

"The sectoral balances framework is intrinsically linked to the flow of funds analysis. An early exponent of the flow-of-funds approach, Lawrence Ritter wrote in 1963 that:

The flow of funds is a system of social accounting in which (a) the economy is divided into a number of sectors and (b) a “sources- and-uses-of-funds statement” is constructed for each sector. When all these sector sources-and-uses-of-funds statements are placed side by side, we obtain (c) the flow-of-funds matrix for the economy as a whole. That is the sum and substance of the matter.

[Full reference: Ritter, L.W. (1963) ‘An Exposition of the Structure of the Flow-of-Funds Accounts’, The Journal of Finance, 18(2), May, 219-230]....

Like Lawrence Ritter, the Cambridge economists considered it interesting to trace the flow of funds between the different sectors of the economy, which they divided into three sectors:

1. The government sector – which comprised all levels of government and their agencies.

2. The private domestic sector – which comprised households and firms ( including banks).

3. The external sector – which comprised all non-residents (private households, firms and governments).

From an Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) perspective (2) and (3) comprise the non-government sector.

After all the transactions have flowed in any given period, any one of these sectors could record a financial deficit or surplus. A financial deficit (surplus) is defined as a state where total income is less (more) than the sector’s spending.....

The flow-of-funds framework allows us to understand that the funds a particular sector receives during a period from current receipts, borrowing, selling financial assets, and running down cash balances have to be equal to the total of its current expenditures, capital expenditures, debt repayments, lending, and accumulation of cash balances.

The approach clearly allows us to trace the uses and sources of funds for each sector....."

Flow-of-funds and sectoral balances | Bill Mitchell – Modern Monetary Theory
 
A financial deficit (surplus) is defined as a state where total income is less (more) than the sector’s spending.....

The flow-of-funds framework allows us to understand that the funds a particular sector receives during a period from current receipts, borrowing, selling financial assets, and running down cash balances have to be equal to the total of its current expenditures, capital expenditures, debt repayments, lending, and accumulation of cash balances.

The approach clearly allows us to trace the uses and sources of funds for each sector....."

This part.
 
This part.

Ok so you disagree that the sum of these parts have to be zero by definition? Trying to dumb this down a bit from the wonky version in the link I posted.
 
Sorry I didn't mean to imply the JG was MMT's idea, but that it is what separates it from chartalism.

Ummm since JG is not part of MMT.. it does not.. it cannot "separate it from chartalism"..
 
I hate mmt. Gets stuck between my teeth.
 
i like the "mint a fifty gazillion dollar coin" idea. it will solve everything instantly, and then we can give the hyper-rich another tax cut or five. this will help the middle and lower socioeconomic classes to get great new jobs and raises via trickle down on an Elvis speed trip.
 
Ok so you disagree that the sum of these parts have to be zero by definition? Trying to dumb this down a bit from the wonky version in the link I posted.

No. I disagree that you can extrapolate future economic growth outlooks from accounting identities. Consumption, investment, government spending, and net exports are all interconnected. Accounting identities are just that... accounting identities.
 
People who think they are debunkers are really just sad, lame propagandists. And they use this silly meme as an excuse for their lack of evidence/rational thought.

Yup. I agree. Lefties who think they can debunk established economic ideas in favor of nonsense like this are arrogant as hell. It is economic experts with degrees in economics who debunk MMT. They are the ones who provide the evidence and rational thought. What anyone says here on DP can't match that. There's a reason why the "T" in MMT stands for theory, because it is unproven nonsense that not one country in the entire world follows as an economic principle. But, it doesn't stop a certain few on here who are not experts at all from claiming they know more than the experts do. It's nothing but liberal hogwash for continuing to spend money with total and complete abandon. I'm sure the nutjobs liking the Green New Deal would love to use MMT as an excuse to add another 93 trillion dollars on to our already 22 trillion dollar debt and, not to worry, nothing will go wrong because we never have to pay back the 115 trillion dollars. And, apparently, nothing bad will happen to us just from having to pay the interest on that debt alone.
 
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No. I disagree that you can extrapolate future economic growth outlooks from accounting identities. Consumption, investment, government spending, and net exports are all interconnected. Accounting identities are just that... accounting identities.

It doesn't extrapolate future economic growth outlooks. Not sure where that notion came from.

It can use these identities, however, to show why something in the past happened.
 
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