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Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

His point is that Corporate Tax Cuts predominantly benefitted the extremely wealthy.

View attachment 67255809

That very well could be. Are not the "rich" the ones who finance new companies and upgrade/new factories?
I just am not too worked up about what the Corporations pay or not pay. The rich already pay about 38% of all federal taxes.
Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2018 Update

Some politicians just don't get it. We (they) have a spending problem. Right now the US borrows about .40 of every dollar it spends. So some want the "rich" to pay more for new programs. How about getting the budget balanced first.
 
That attitude makes no sense to me. Earnings are dictated by structures made by men. They are not laws of nature. Earning are most of all a product of laws and the kind of power people exert over others.
Even given your definition of "fair", U.S. law bestows all sorts of favors on the already well to do. Unregulated capitalism is not compatible w democracy and the undercurrent of rage is pretty hard to miss in this country. If something does not change the trajectory of income disparity , the odds that we continue to have a functioning democracy are pretty low.

Earnings are determined by mutual agreement between individuals. This existed long before structures made by man. But your right otherwise. If the rich are treated unfairly by govt, we should stop that. Including not making them pay more for govt than any other individual.
 
That very well could be. Are not the "rich" the ones who finance new companies and upgrade/new factories?
I just am not too worked up about what the Corporations pay or not pay. The rich already pay about 38% of all federal taxes.
Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2018 Update

Some politicians just don't get it. We (they) have a spending problem. Right now the US borrows about .40 of every dollar it spends. So some want the "rich" to pay more for new programs. How about getting the budget balanced first.

I'll tell you what. Watch this Tucker Carlson interview with Rutger Bregman, and then get back with me...

Rutger Bregman leaks Tucker Carlson rant as Fox News refuses to air the interview – DutchReview
 
I'll tell you what. Watch this Tucker Carlson interview with Rutger Bregman, and then get back with me...

Rutger Bregman leaks Tucker Carlson rant as Fox News refuses to air the interview – DutchReview

The website is a bit one sided, don't you think?:mrgreen:

What is so confusing on that the very rich can influence politics. The dutchreview did nothing to refute the federal income tax data info I provided.
Your response also does nothing to show that the US does not have a spending problem.

Seems some have "rich person" envy.
 
That very well could be. Are not the "rich" the ones who finance new companies and upgrade/new factories?
I just am not too worked up about what the Corporations pay or not pay. The rich already pay about 38% of all federal taxes.
Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2018 Update

Some politicians just don't get it. We (they) have a spending problem. Right now the US borrows about .40 of every dollar it spends. So some want the "rich" to pay more for new programs. How about getting the budget balanced first.

You don't get it. U.S. revenue as a % of GDP is lower that any other western nation by a large amount. This is direct result of lowering taxes on those who can most afford to pay.You can't get blood out of stone. This is what is driving our deficits not too much spending.

US taxes are low relative to those in other developed countries (figure 1). In 2015, taxes at all levels of US government represented 26 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), compared with an average of 33 percent for the 35 member countries of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

Among OECD countries, only Korea, Turkey, Ireland, Chile, and Mexico collected less than the United States as a percentage of GDP. Taxes exceeded 40 percent of GDP in seven European countries, including Denmark and France, where taxes were greater than 45 percent of GDP. But those countries generally provide more extensive government services than the United States does.

How do US taxes compare internationally? | Tax Policy Center
 
You don't get it. U.S. revenue as a % of GDP is lower that any other western nation by a large amount. This is direct result of lowering taxes on those who can most afford to pay.You can't get blood out of stone. This is what is driving our deficits not too much spending.



How do US taxes compare internationally? | Tax Policy Center

Then explain why the debt continues to go up. How much more do you want the "rich" to pay?

When you spend more than your income , it is a spending problem. If you want to see the tax code change , get Congress to enact new laws.

What I find interesting is how some of todays politicians say they will pay for a NEW program by taxing the rich. OK, that is a break even for that program. That also does not balance the budget. Other programs would have to be reduced or new revenue streams found.
 
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Then explain why the debt continues to go up. How much more do you want the "rich" to pay?

I did explain. We keep cutting taxes on those that an afford them most. Our revenue is too low to sustain us. We could start with putting back the tax rates Bill Clinton had when he had years of budget surpluses. I would not mind bring back JFK's rates either. I mean he was a great tax reducer wasn't he?

How past income tax rate cuts on the wealthy affected the economy
 
I did explain. We keep cutting taxes on those that an afford them most. Our revenue is too low to sustain us. We could start with putting back the tax rates Bill Clinton had when he had years of budget surpluses. I would not mind bring back JFK's rates either. I mean he was a great tax reducer wasn't he?

How past income tax rate cuts on the wealthy affected the economy

You made my point. Current revenue is too low to sustain current spending. One solution is what you propose, increase taxes. Another solution is to reduce spending. It could also be a combination of revenue increase and spending cuts. If only Congress and the President would listen.

I agree that Bill Clinton did well for the federal budget.
 
Earnings are determined by mutual agreement between individuals. This existed long before structures made by man.

Huh? Skipping over thousands of years of tribal sharing and barter, the modern concept is always a decision about how to share the pie. And those decisions are made by the powerful - not some happy handshake between individuals. For decades corporations have been self-dealing and buying politicians so that they will enact favorable regulation (or eliminate them) for decades. Unregulated capitalism always leads to the wealth of a nation being held by a handful of elite.

Do you think there is a bright line between government and corporation?. Under Repub administrations , in particular, the relationship is not adversarial. Gov't is in many cases a colllaborating w corporations against the well being of citizens. Look at Pruitt's EPA defending Monsanto's toxic practices:

Pruitt's EPA Defending Monsanto's Glyphosate Herbicides | NRDC
 
You made my point. Current revenue is too low to sustain current spending. One solution is what you propose, increase taxes. Another solution is to reduce spending. It could also be a combination of revenue increase and spending cuts. If only Congress and the President would listen.

I agree that Bill Clinton did well for the federal budget.

A good place to start would be if Repub administrations would cease getting the country involved in unnecessary wars and all the incredibly costly and lasting damage that inflicts on the budget, as well as people's lives. Who profits from these wars? Are Bolton and Trump hankering for another M.E. war ? -with Iran this time

Health care is , of course, the other most costly sector of the budget. Is there waste in the system? Yep. Piles of it. But will gov't do anything of substance to stop the greed of Big Pharma or enact measures that would stabilize the cost of H.C.? Certainly not under the current administration.

I know how much I want the rich to pay- their fair share - which means to me: Get Rid of all the favorable loopholes, the carried interest tax rate, the ability for politicians to become lobbyists, the ability of the wealthy to set up off-shore accounts....there are many ways to cheat the tax man - not all of them are illegal, but all of them are employed by many people who are very wealthy . Trump is a prime example of how, in America, a person can become wealthy (in his case wealthier than his initial inheritance), if he just has no morals or scruples.
 
Thats the top rate which affected almost no one. At lower top rates, the rich pay more than ever. The top 10% are paying 70% of all income tax now. The average tax rate on the top quintile is 27%, same as it was in 1979, before Regan was in office.

A high top tax rate gives the government considerable control over the economic behavior of the rich.

Paul Krugman won the Nobel Prize in Economics in 2008. He teaches economics at Princeton. He writes a column in The New York Times. This is what he wrote in a column dated NOV. 18, 2012:

---------

n the 1950s incomes in the top bracket faced a marginal tax rate of 91, that’s right, 91 percent, while taxes on corporate profits were twice as large, relative to national income, as in recent years. The best estimates suggest that circa 1960 the top 0.01 percent of Americans paid an effective federal tax rate of more than 70 percent, twice what they pay today.

Nor were high taxes the only burden wealthy businessmen had to bear. They also faced a labor force with a degree of bargaining power hard to imagine today. In 1955 roughly a third of American workers were union members. In the biggest companies, management and labor bargained as equals, so much so that it was common to talk about corporations serving an array of “stakeholders” as opposed to merely serving stockholders.

The Twinkie Manifesto - The New York Times
 
A high top tax rate gives the government considerable control over the economic behavior of the rich.

I am not convinced that this is a good thing. I am suspicious of what exactly bureaucrats and politicians can do with major influence, in no small part because it is always harder for realities on the ground to produce valuable feedback when the decisions are centralized and remote. And that feedback is very much valuable.

He teaches economics at Princeton.

He used to teach economics at Princeton.
 
A high top tax rate gives the government considerable control over the economic behavior of the rich.
Correct. They find ways to reduce their tax liabilities, move their money to more favorable locations, curtail investment and new business ventures; and eventually reduced tax revenue.
SmartCat said:
Paul Krugman won the Nobel Prize in Economics in 2008. He teaches economics at Princeton. He writes a column in The New York Times. This is what he wrote in a column dated NOV. 18, 2012:

---------

n the 1950s incomes in the top bracket faced a marginal tax rate of 91, that’s right, 91 percent, while taxes on corporate profits were twice as large, relative to national income, as in recent years. The best estimates suggest that circa 1960 the top 0.01 percent of Americans paid an effective federal tax rate of more than 70 percent, twice what they pay today.

Nor were high taxes the only burden wealthy businessmen had to bear. They also faced a labor force with a degree of bargaining power hard to imagine today. In 1955 roughly a third of American workers were union members. In the biggest companies, management and labor bargained as equals, so much so that it was common to talk about corporations serving an array of “stakeholders” as opposed to merely serving stockholders.

The Twinkie Manifesto - The New York Times
Paul Krugman hasn't be correct since 2008. I cringe to think about the competency of the economists he's turning out at Princeton.
 
Earnings are determined by mutual agreement between individuals. This existed long before structures made by man.

Free association is but one way to organize the decision process involved in determining earnings. However, it manifestly isn't the only one and, just as manifestly, we can opt our way in or out of certain methods wherever and whenever we wish to do it. There is no guarantee the sought-after improvements will materialize following any such modifications (though we sometimes can form reasonable expectations), but this doesn't mean no choice is available, nor that using free association everywhere is going to get us the best results. In fact, economic theory is filled with subtleties regarding this kind of problem and the examples abound in the literature where coercion is the only way we have to solve the coordination problem of individuals -- and it does it per their own account of what best means, of all things.

Generally speaking, my suspicion is that information issues and the potential for poorly designed incentive structures make the use of free associations a better 'default' than coercive measures, but it is by no means clear that this is a rule that should be applied across the board. As long as we care about more things than freedom from coercion, this is a non-trivial problem.
 
Paul Krugman hasn't been correct since 2008. I cringe to think about the competency of the economists he's turning out at Princeton.

Actually, the arguments he was making regarding the use of a stimulus package and his discussion of spending cuts back in 2009 onwards was thoroughly in line with the best up-to-date research in macroeconomic theory. You can see papers such as Woodford's 2011 paper on the zero lower bound, or Eggertsson's 2011 paper, also on this subject. The "Wonderland" view of the zero lower bound where up is down and left is right wasn't silly at all. I think it is Eggertsson who shows some supply-related tax cuts that usually are expansionary become suddenly contractionary at the zero lower bound. If you read these papers, you will find formalized versions of the statements he made, so I know for a fact that he was following carefully this literature and didn't just blab whatever policy proposal he preferred back in 2008. He had solid reasons.

Some of his arguments (though not all of them) would be problematic today, but for rather obscure reasons that really were not obvious at the time. One of them regards the numerical methods used to solve these models, but that was published in 2016. Another even more shocking example comes from the recent literature on long term positive inflation, but these papers came out in late 2018. Moreover, it's not because the oddities of these very complicated models turned out not to be quite correct that his recommendations were wrong. It is still a contentious issue in economics, both in terms of theory and empirical studies, whether fiscal expansion can help smoothen the way out of a recession.

There is nothing special about what Krugman says when it comes to macroeconomic policy. He has less depth and clarity when it comes to other subjects, though, and like everyone who talks about politics, he will have a tendency to eat his own baloney just because it's his baloney.


I'd bet my shirt you don't have the first clue what is a DSGE model, how they are solved or even just what we're looking for in such models. You probably have no idea how we talk about them in the literature, how we evaluate them, how we estimate them, etc. but you find yourself in a position to say Krugman is incompetent. The only salient feature here is that Krugman is a liberal. Your opinion is likely based on that observation, though you probably can come up with a very narrow set of bad forecasts he made to justify the bias you can't admit.
 
Actually, the arguments he was making regarding the use of a stimulus package and his discussion of spending cuts back in 2009 onwards was thoroughly in line with the best up-to-date research in macroeconomic theory. You can see papers such as Woodford's 2011 paper on the zero lower bound, or Eggertsson's 2011 paper, also on this subject. The "Wonderland" view of the zero lower bound where up is down and left is right wasn't silly at all. I think it is Eggertsson who shows some supply-related tax cuts that usually are expansionary become suddenly contractionary at the zero lower bound. If you read these papers, you will find formalized versions of the statements he made, so I know for a fact that he was following carefully this literature and didn't just blab whatever policy proposal he preferred back in 2008. He had solid reasons.

Some of his arguments (though not all of them) would be problematic today, but for rather obscure reasons that really were not obvious at the time. One of them regards the numerical methods used to solve these models, but that was published in 2016. Another even more shocking example comes from the recent literature on long term positive inflation, but these papers came out in late 2018. Moreover, it's not because the oddities of these very complicated models turned out not to be quite correct that his recommendations were wrong. It is still a contentious issue in economics, both in terms of theory and empirical studies, whether fiscal expansion can help smoothen the way out of a recession.

There is nothing special about what Krugman says when it comes to macroeconomic policy. He has less depth and clarity when it comes to other subjects, though, and like everyone who talks about politics, he will have a tendency to eat his own baloney just because it's his baloney.


I'd bet my shirt you don't have the first clue what is a DSGE model, how they are solved or even just what we're looking for in such models. You probably have no idea how we talk about them in the literature, how we evaluate them, how we estimate them, etc. but you find yourself in a position to say Krugman is incompetent. The only salient feature here is that Krugman is a liberal. Your opinion is likely based on that observation, though you probably can come up with a very narrow set of bad forecasts he made to justify the bias you can't admit.
In my humble, non-economist mind there are two forms of economics. The first is the academic/ivory tower form practiced by "real" economists from their offices, amongst themselves publishing papers and "studies" no one other than another economist would understand or even read. That realm spends their time writing and arguing arcane theories and hypotheses and embracing the dogma of various "schools" and debating the merits of each over snifters of brandy at the faculty club. The cliched "if you lined up all the economists in the world end to end they wouldn't reach a conclusion" pertains.


The real, practical economy is essentially the result of the cumulative actions and decisions of the millions, or billions of other people, choosing what to buy, what to sell, what to save, what to invest and where to work, and at what. Economies contract or expand due to the sentiments and decisions of this cohort which comprises consumers, workers, employees, entrepreneurs, business owners, investors and managers. A huge majority of these people have never of Eggertsson or Woolford or DSGE models; nor do they suffer for that. When those decision makers are optimistic and see a prosperous future they move the economy forward; conversely, when they see factors accumulating that cause them to become cautious or even pessimistic they slow spending, move to more conservative spending plans and investments.
 
Paul Krugman hasn't be correct since 2008. I cringe to think about the competency of the economists he's turning out at Princeton.

In my humble, non-economist mind there are two forms of economics.

You're so humble that you question the competency of economists coming out of princeton?
 
You're so humble that you question the competency of economists coming out of princeton?
If they are indoctrinated by Krugman's arcane and left wing dogma - absolutely.
 
What we have is a compound problem. First the government spends more than they take in. The best way to fix this is to do as Bill Clinton did and cut spending. This is how the American worker has to handle his financial problems. The problem is compounded because one party has found that they only way they can obtain votes is buy them. They have found that if they promise a bunch of free stuff the freeloaders will come flocking to them.

When you are already spending more than you make and are promising programs that will cost trillions more, the Bill Clinton economic model is out the window. Rather than tell all their lemmings that there is absolutely no way we can pay for all these give aways, they create a buggy man. The rich guy, the 1% who are paying 38% of the taxes is suddenly not paying their fair share. Because freeloaders have never had a problem with taking other people's money they are all in on this. However, the lemming herders also do not tell the lemmings that even if they took all the money the rich had they could not come close to covering the costs of all these freebies.

The lemming herders also do not tell the lemmings that the rich have options. The rich can pack up their businesses and go elsewhere. France found this out in spades. What will be the results when you chase off those people who are now paying 38% of the taxes? Who will be the next buggy man?
 
In my humble, non-economist mind there are two forms of economics. The first is the academic/ivory tower form practiced by "real" economists from their offices, amongst themselves publishing papers and "studies" no one other than another economist would understand or even read.

It is of far more practical relevance and wide use than you suspect. The staff in central banks use research in empirical and theoretical macroeconomics to make and adjust forecasts and evaluate current macroeconomic conditions. All discussions in central banks draw from this literature, although it usually does so with some delay and it also usually add certain features to DSGE models before using them to suit their needs. It is also part of the standard toolkit of the staff in finance departments that deal with budgeting issues. This is also useful for private businesses. The most obvious example comes from finance: a firm involved in fundamental trading strategies using macroeconomic data definitely pays attention to the literature on asset pricing, volatility, forecasting methods, etc. Hell! How many firms use the Fama-French factor models? Another less well-known example is the set of rules business managers use in the real world to evaluate the profitability of an investment project. All those rules (such as the net present value and more sophisticated real option pricing) are derived from microeconomic theory, even though the quickest methods that are most often used with small heuristic corrections date back to the 1950s.

Finally, it's not impossible to understand at all. The most basic DSGE model you can imagine is the Ramsey-Cass-Koopman growth model with technological shocks, i.e., the first real business cycle (RBC) model of Kydland and Prescott. The basic stories behind the equations are easy enough to understand:
1. Business cycles are caused by fluctuations in the production capacities
2. As opportunities for working and for renting capital vary, so does income, but people prefer stable consumption paths (across time and states of nature);
3. Because (2), some of the volatility of income (GDP) is shipped into savings (and therefore investment) to allow for smoother consumption paths.

Using microeconomic studies, you get very stunning performance: you can match the volatility of output growth, investment growth and consumption growth, as well as order them properly. The same goes for hours worked. The maths is, however, necessary if you want to know what's wrong: it's not obvious from the above stories, but to match those empirical facts for the 1950-2000 period in the US, you need parameter values and functional forms that imply ludicrous things. For one thing, you have to be able to accept a very elastic supply of labor, even though microeconomic estimates show it's very small for individual people. You also have to be ready to live with a process for technological growth that is so persistent and volatile, it implies a 37% chance of technological regress every quarter.

Of course, that was 1982, if I recall. Today, models are more sophisticated, but the fact that a silly looking little theory could do so well and the fact that we could check so many details about our theories if we bother translating our intuitions into mathematically meaningful terms led DSGE models to become very widely used. There is nothing arcane or remote about this. It's the same damn thing everybody does in their heads: pick a handful of salient factors influencing behavior and run some kind of mental simulation to answer questions about "what if" kinds of scenarios.

That realm spends their time writing and arguing arcane theories and hypotheses and embracing the dogma of various "schools" and debating the merits of each over snifters of brandy at the faculty club. The cliched "if you lined up all the economists in the world end to end they wouldn't reach a conclusion" pertains.

That is an impression you can only get if you never saw economists talk about their research. Suppose we pick a theme: the minimum wage. We have statistical techniques that can potentially identify the effect of a specific minimum wage hike (we have many of them, some using microeconomic data and some using macroeconomic data). We also have many theoretical models we can calibrate or estimate to see if the results we get from statistics seems to emerge in simulations when we take into different factors that may play a role. Sometimes, after all of this is done, the conclusions converge. When you try to make sense all of these different pieces of evidence, you at the very least end up rejecting certain ideas if not end up picking just one answer. That's what we actually do: argue over evidence, argue about how to modify models to see if intuitions make sense when you cross all T's and dot all I's.
 
What we have is a compound problem. First the government spends more than they take in. The best way to fix this is to do as Bill Clinton did and cut spending. This is how the American worker has to handle his financial problems. The problem is compounded because one party has found that they only way they can obtain votes is buy them. They have found that if they promise a bunch of free stuff the freeloaders will come flocking to them.

When you are already spending more than you make and are promising programs that will cost trillions more, the Bill Clinton economic model is out the window. Rather than tell all their lemmings that there is absolutely no way we can pay for all these give aways, they create a buggy man. The rich guy, the 1% who are paying 38% of the taxes is suddenly not paying their fair share. Because freeloaders have never had a problem with taking other people's money they are all in on this. However, the lemming herders also do not tell the lemmings that even if they took all the money the rich had they could not come close to covering the costs of all these freebies.

The lemming herders also do not tell the lemmings that the rich have options. The rich can pack up their businesses and go elsewhere. France found this out in spades. What will be the results when you chase off those people who are now paying 38% of the taxes? Who will be the next buggy man?
Your post is complete nonsense. I will list the nonsense:

1) Bill Clinton raised taxes to address the deficit, not cut spending. Look at the below chart. Notice how spending decreased? Me neither. But revenue did double.
usgs_line.php
usgs_line.php


2) You claim that "one party" presumably Democrats, spend money to buy votes is undercut by the fact that Republican Administrations have higher spending growth than Democrats. Below is the Bush and Obama years. Notice how spending skyrockets during Bush and is flat during Obama? I warn people that before they make claims about numbers, they should look at the numbers. Please take the warning.

usgs_line.php


3) The rich are NOT paying 38% taxes on their income, when the top marginal rate is 37 percent, which kicks in for income above $510,300 for individuals and $612,350 for married couples. Moreover, the capital gains rate is 25% -- where the very rich earn most of their money.

4) You said "The rich can pack up their businesses and go elsewhere." That's an Aynn Rand fantasy. Everywhere worth living has higher taxes than the U.S. I suppose they can more to the 3rd world, though.

Your post is symptomatic of someone who is a rube of the rich and swallows their narratives. The cadre of conservative billionaires have the objective to keep taxes on the rich low and keep government out of their hair. But these people's numbers are small, so they need to fund propaganda groups like the Heritage Foundation to create false messages and spread to middle-class conservatives, who are generally stupid enough to swallow their lies. Thus the pro-life conservative-leaning worker who listens to Rush Limbaugh will repeatedly vote for the party that is less likely to protect his safety, less likely to protect his job, and less likely to benefit him economically.
 
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You're so humble that you question the competency of economists coming out of princeton?

You can question the competency of economists coming out of Princeton, even without being an economist. However, I wouldn't question the competence of a scientist without knowing at least a bit about how he or she works. You're supposed to pay attention to empirical evidence, cover many possible explanations when doing research, even when they're not politically convenient, and you're supposed to pay some attention to what others do in your own field.

With this being said, Richard Feynman was known to re-derive independently results from everywhere in physics. Some people might be able to do a lot of good work without paying too much attention to what others do in the field... but, then again, the counterexample is insanely smart. Incidentally, he also studied at Princeton.
 
It is of far more practical relevance and wide use than you suspect. The staff in central banks use research in empirical and theoretical macroeconomics to make and adjust forecasts and evaluate current macroeconomic conditions. All discussions in central banks draw from this literature, although it usually does so with some delay and it also usually add certain features to DSGE models before using them to suit their needs. It is also part of the standard toolkit of the staff in finance departments that deal with budgeting issues. This is also useful for private businesses. The most obvious example comes from finance: a firm involved in fundamental trading strategies using macroeconomic data definitely pays attention to the literature on asset pricing, volatility, forecasting methods, etc. Hell! How many firms use the Fama-French factor models? Another less well-known example is the set of rules business managers use in the real world to evaluate the profitability of an investment project. All those rules (such as the net present value and more sophisticated real option pricing) are derived from microeconomic theory, even though the quickest methods that are most often used with small heuristic corrections date back to the 1950s.

Finally, it's not impossible to understand at all. The most basic DSGE model you can imagine is the Ramsey-Cass-Koopman growth model with technological shocks, i.e., the first real business cycle (RBC) model of Kydland and Prescott. The basic stories behind the equations are easy enough to understand:
1. Business cycles are caused by fluctuations in the production capacities
2. As opportunities for working and for renting capital vary, so does income, but people prefer stable consumption paths (across time and states of nature);
3. Because (2), some of the volatility of income (GDP) is shipped into savings (and therefore investment) to allow for smoother consumption paths.

Using microeconomic studies, you get very stunning performance: you can match the volatility of output growth, investment growth and consumption growth, as well as order them properly. The same goes for hours worked. The maths is, however, necessary if you want to know what's wrong: it's not obvious from the above stories, but to match those empirical facts for the 1950-2000 period in the US, you need parameter values and functional forms that imply ludicrous things. For one thing, you have to be able to accept a very elastic supply of labor, even though microeconomic estimates show it's very small for individual people. You also have to be ready to live with a process for technological growth that is so persistent and volatile, it implies a 37% chance of technological regress every quarter.

Of course, that was 1982, if I recall. Today, models are more sophisticated, but the fact that a silly looking little theory could do so well and the fact that we could check so many details about our theories if we bother translating our intuitions into mathematically meaningful terms led DSGE models to become very widely used. There is nothing arcane or remote about this. It's the same damn thing everybody does in their heads: pick a handful of salient factors influencing behavior and run some kind of mental simulation to answer questions about "what if" kinds of scenarios.



That is an impression you can only get if you never saw economists talk about their research. Suppose we pick a theme: the minimum wage. We have statistical techniques that can potentially identify the effect of a specific minimum wage hike (we have many of them, some using microeconomic data and some using macroeconomic data). We also have many theoretical models we can calibrate or estimate to see if the results we get from statistics seems to emerge in simulations when we take into different factors that may play a role. Sometimes, after all of this is done, the conclusions converge. When you try to make sense all of these different pieces of evidence, you at the very least end up rejecting certain ideas if not end up picking just one answer. That's what we actually do: argue over evidence, argue about how to modify models to see if intuitions make sense when you cross all T's and dot all I's.
You're last paragraph is a more eloquent rehash of my description of the academic economic mindset.
 
MTAtach, you have no idea what you are talking about. Clinton slashed hundreds of billions in spending.

CLINTON'S ECONOMIC PLAN: The Spending Cuts; A Wide Swath, on Earth and in the Sky - The New York Times

Your rant about Bush raising spending and Obama holding the line is also based on ignorance. Bush increases were due to the war. Obama's spending was about 50% higher than Bush's. How can Bush be spending too much but Obama spending 50% more be an improvement? Only an unthinking dolt would print anything that stupid.

You also have a reading comprehension problem. I said the rich are paying 38% of federal taxes not a 38% tax rate. It is plain to see you only see what you want from you hard line liberal standpoint.

If you had taken your head out of the sand, you would note that several corporations have moved their businesses back to the US since the Trump Tax cuts. Creating many thousands of jobs and bringing hundreds of billions of dollars back to the US. Why would any idiot think they could not reverse this trend. Since it is obvious you know little about economics I will enlighten you. Business goes where the best business climate is. The name of the game is to make money.
 
You can question the competency of economists coming out of Princeton, even without being an economist. However, I wouldn't question the competence of a scientist without knowing at least a bit about how he or she works. You're supposed to pay attention to empirical evidence, cover many possible explanations when doing research, even when they're not politically convenient, and you're supposed to pay some attention to what others do in your own field.

With this being said, Richard Feynman was known to re-derive independently results from everywhere in physics. Some people might be able to do a lot of good work without paying too much attention to what others do in the field... but, then again, the counterexample is insanely smart. Incidentally, he also studied at Princeton.

You stated it much more articulately than I
 
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