• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

SmartCat said:
U.S. Household Incomes: A 51-Year Perspective
by Jill Mislinski, 10/16/18

To give us a better idea of the underlying trends in household incomes, we've also prepared a chart of the real percentage growth since 1967. Note in particular the growing spread between the top quintile (and especially the top 5%) and the other four quintiles. The growth spread began in the mid-1980s during the Reagan administration, the era of Supply Side Economics (aka "Reaganomics" and Trickle-Down Economics). As this chart illustrates, tax and other policy changes to benefit the wealthier households didn't have the heavily promoted trickle-down effect.

View attachment 67253711View attachment 67253712

https://www.advisorperspectives.com...6/u-s-household-incomes-a-51-year-perspective
Click to expand...
Chart away, as those charts are meaningless. What are you doing to establish wage equality and how does raising taxes on the rich do that?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Conservative said:
Chart away, as those charts are meaningless. What are you doing to establish wage equality and how does raising taxes on the rich do that?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Charts are meaningless to those who refuse to accept facts they do not want to believe.
 
Conservative said:
Right, reality doesn't exist in that liberal world of yours as actual data is irrelevant. deflecting from what? reality? You people have yet to post any factual data at all so why don't you tell me exactly what is wrong with my post, are the top 1% paying most of the Federal Income Taxes? Aren't approximately 50% of income earning Americans paying ZERO in FIT?
Click to expand...

Because however one feels about tax rates, you are making a stupid point. Of course where all the wealth and income is concentrated is also where a disproportionate amount of tax revenue comes from. Thats a given, it has nothing to do with fairness.

If you look at actual percentages of income, it's not the "top 1%" that pay the most of their income in various taxes, but rather it would be the upper middle class, those whose household incomes range between 120k a year or so and 300k a year or so.
 
SmartCat said:
Charts are meaningless to those who refuse to accept facts they do not want to believe.
Click to expand...

Look in the mirror at someone who wants to believe the leftwing rhetoric and ignore context
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Because however one feels about tax rates, you are making a stupid point. Of course where all the wealth and income is concentrated is also where a disproportionate amount of tax revenue comes from. Thats a given, it has nothing to do with fairness.

If you look at actual percentages of income, it's not the "top 1%" that pay the most of their income in various taxes, but rather it would be the upper middle class, those whose household incomes range between 120k a year or so and 300k a year or so.
Click to expand...

Fairness is called equal opportunity, NOT EQUAL OUTCOME
 
Conservative said:
Fairness is called equal opportunity, NOT EQUAL OUTCOME
Click to expand...

That is not what is being discussed.

I think most people would agree that if a person earns 10 million a year in income, their effective tax rate should be higher than someone that makes 120k a year in income. Do you not agree with that? For example, if a household that earns 150k a year has an effective federal taxation rate of 26%, most people would argue that if someone earning 10 million a year had an effective federal taxation rate of just 17%, we have a problem with our system. These are all hypothetical numbers of course.

We are an upper middle class household. If our tax rate was just 10%, we would be paying more in taxes than a single mother who had a tax rate of 20%, yet no one would call such a system fair.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
That is not what is being discussed.

I think most people would agree that if a person earns 10 million a year in income, their effective tax rate should be higher than someone that makes 120k a year in income. Do you not agree with that? For example, if a household that earns 150k a year has an effective federal taxation rate of 26%, most people would argue that if someone earning 10 million a year had an effective federal taxation rate of just 17%, we have a problem with our system. These are all hypothetical numbers of course.

We are an upper middle class household. If our tax rate was just 10%, we would be paying more in taxes than a single mother who had a tax rate of 20%, yet no one would call such a system fair.
Click to expand...

What is the effective rate for the 50% of income earners not paying anything in Federal Income taxes? If you are in an upper middle class household why do you need to send more money to the federal bureaucrats to waste when you can get better return on your investment by helping those in need in your local community?

What assurance do you have that when you raise taxes more revenue would go to the federal gov't and that revenue would be used to lower the debt? You are talking fairness when the top 1% pay approximately 40% of the FIT and approximately 50% of income earners pay ZERO? Where is the fairness there?

All this is nothing more than feel good rhetoric that promotes spending in the name of compassion that does nothing but creating dependence. Again what is the effective rate that those evil rich people should be paying in Federal, State, and Local taxes and why the class envy and jealousy?
 
Conservative said:
What is the effective rate for the 50% of income earners not paying anything in Federal Income taxes? If you are in an upper middle class household why do you need to send more money to the federal bureaucrats to waste when you can get better return on your investment by helping those in need in your local community?

What assurance do you have that when you raise taxes more revenue would go to the federal gov't and that revenue would be used to lower the debt? You are talking fairness when the top 1% pay approximately 40% of the FIT and approximately 50% of income earners pay ZERO? Where is the fairness there?

All this is nothing more than feel good rhetoric that promotes spending in the name of compassion that does nothing but creating dependence. Again what is the effective rate that those evil rich people should be paying in Federal, State, and Local taxes and why the class envy and jealousy?
Click to expand...

Trolling again, I see. He's right, it's not fair. Warren Buffet said that he pays a smaller percentage in overall taxes than his secretary.
 
SmartCat said:
FOX News, March 27, 2019

According to a Fox News Poll released Wednesday, voters' top tax concern isn't how much they pay. Instead, they are most concerned about the rich not paying enough
Click to expand...


...reinforcing cpwill's lonely argument that we are letting far too many people vote.
 
Wow a lot to learned in this thread. First, the rich need to pay more so we can pay for free stuff for those who chose not to work. Didn't France try that? How'd that work? Next, during the Obama Administration 95% of the wealth created went to the top 1%, however because they still have that wealth, it is all Trump's doing. These same people talk about Republicans being stupid. Here is a little ditty from the Washington Post that might tell where the economy is headed under Trump. "U.S. wages growing at fastest rate in 9 years as unemployment stays at 3.9 percent". The article has more bad news for Dems. "Zandi said. He is especially encouraged by the double-digit pay hikes for Millennials who switch jobs, an indication that the economy is starting to lift the fortunes of more workers." Millennials aren't stupid. They are just like those rich bastards, they like having more money. Think the guy driving the new Beamer is going to vote for Creepy Joe or the guy who's policies gave him that extra money?

I will let the brains figure out weather it is the guys paying 40% of the taxes or the ones paying 0% who are not paying their fair share. The create hate and division group will always point at the other side and the politicians love this. They can stay clean, collect a fat paycheck and do nothing but point fingers. I will point where the real problem lies. The Government Spends More Than It Takes In. You can tax everything until you become Russia or you can start some spending controls.
 
Actually, they've got a point... the highest tax rates in the country are paid by people who reported $3 million in income. Once you start earning more than $3 mil, then your tax rate starts dropping off a cliff. Here's a chart I made from the 2015 IRS SOI data:

2015 Tax Curve.jpg

The blue line represents the tax rate as a percentage of adjusted gross income - notice how it drops off at the higher end. I haven't tracked what exactly is causing this dip, but it's been a persistent feature of the Tax Code since 1997 and it's been getting steadily more pronounced.

The red dashed line is the average tax rate - it's what everyone would have to pay to maintain revenue neutrality with a perfectly flat tax code. The Crossover point is where the trend line crosses the average rate.

The estimated median income is where you'd fall on the horizontal x-axis if you were exactly at the median level of income.... just over $36,000. So the bottom 50% of taxpayers make 12.31% of all the income, while the top 50% of taxpayers make the other 87.69%. To give you some perspective on the erosion of the middle class, in 1975, the median level was at 18.00%.

So that's the 50% Level.... if we want to take it out further, the 90% Level is 54.97%, and the 99% Level is 80.58% - so the Top 1% of taxpayers earn 19.42% of all income.

Bottom line, I'd say the Fox News Poll is dead-on.... at the very least, I think we need to flatten out that dip at the high end and have it at least plateau at around the 30% tax rate.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
You guys just continue to whip out the same idiotic talking points. Like robots, just spit it out. All you pathetic people do is deflect. THere is not a shred of an argument in that dumb post of yours
Click to expand...

You do realize that the only one deflecting from a question here is you right?

Oh that's right, a regressive leftist...

:coffeepap color me surprised.
 
SmartCat said:
I have been posting factual data in response to your cliches ever since we began to argue here. You tell me that my facts are nothing but book learning, that means nothing to you. Facts cannot enter closed and narrow minds.
Click to expand...

So you aren't even capable of seeing them yourself, by your own admittance.
 
cpwill said:
...reinforcing cpwill's lonely argument that we are letting far too many people vote.
Click to expand...

With a line like that I wish you were writing campaign literature and campaign speeches for Republican politicians.
 
I think that individual tax rates aren't even the main issue. Amazon is gobbling up billions of dollars worth of traditionally taxed retail business a year, and they pay zero in federal taxes. Same goes for Netflix. What we need is a VAT that people can't dodge through offshoring, coupled with UBI. Even a VAT half of that implemented in Europe would allow us to fund a generous UBI plan (which is co-exclusive with traditional welfare). We need trickle UP economics to rejuvenate main street and stop the slow march of automation from destroying local economies.
 
Cordelier said:
Actually, they've got a point... the highest tax rates in the country are paid by people who reported $3 million in income. Once you start earning more than $3 mil, then your tax rate starts dropping off a cliff. Here's a chart I made from the 2015 IRS SOI data:

View attachment 67254041

The blue line represents the tax rate as a percentage of adjusted gross income - notice how it drops off at the higher end. I haven't tracked what exactly is causing this dip, but it's been a persistent feature of the Tax Code since 1997 and it's been getting steadily more pronounced.

The red dashed line is the average tax rate - it's what everyone would have to pay to maintain revenue neutrality with a perfectly flat tax code. The Crossover point is where the trend line crosses the average rate.

The estimated median income is where you'd fall on the horizontal x-axis if you were exactly at the median level of income.... just over $36,000. So the bottom 50% of taxpayers make 12.31% of all the income, while the top 50% of taxpayers make the other 87.69%. To give you some perspective on the erosion of the middle class, in 1975, the median level was at 18.00%.

So that's the 50% Level.... if we want to take it out further, the 90% Level is 54.97%, and the 99% Level is 80.58% - so the Top 1% of taxpayers earn 19.42% of all income.

Bottom line, I'd say the Fox News Poll is dead-on.... at the very least, I think we need to flatten out that dip at the high end and have it at least plateau at around the 30% tax rate.
Click to expand...

So what? why is it so important that the federal gov't get more tax revenue from the rich while getting ZERO Federal Income Tax revenue from approximately 50% of income earners in this country? What assurance do you have that more revenue to the federal bureaucrats will be used to lower the deficit and address the debt?
 
SmartCat said:
During the Eisenhower administration the top tax rate was 91%. That seems about right to me.
Click to expand...

They paid less tax under Eisenhower than they do now, though. Why do you want the rich to pay less taxes?

In 1960, the top 1% of households earned 9% of all income, and paid 13% of all taxes. In 2008, the top 1% earned 20% of all income, and paid 38% of all taxes.
 
Conservative said:
Jealousy is a terrible vice to have and you radicals show that jealousy in every post. As is typical with leftists like you, you read the headlines and never the content of the article, doubt you will read this either but here goes.

Debunking The Warren Buffett Tax Deception | Taxes | Minyanville's Wall Street
Click to expand...

Are you trolling the Government Spending Forum? Seems like anytime anybody posts anything, you respond. I'd like to get some other outlooks. Maybe there are other Conservatives who aren't as biased and lying as you are.
 
Media_Truth said:
Are you trolling the Government Spending Forum? Seems like anytime anybody posts anything, you respond. I'd like to get some other outlooks. Maybe there are other Conservatives who aren't as biased and lying as you are.
Click to expand...

Right, I am lying about the Buffet myth on his taxes and paying a lower rate than his secretary which is what you brought up. You simply cannot admit you are wrong on any subject and are lying now about being an independent. There is nothing independent in your posts just restating leftwing opinions and calls for higher taxes. How can anyone say the rich aren't paying enough in taxes when they pay approximately 40 of all Federal Income taxes and approximately 50% of income earners are paying ZERO?

Suggest you stop making me the issue and respond to the information posted. Claiming that I am lying is just another leftwing tactic when you cannot refute what is posted
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Yep, but to be fair Cons been defending and carrying the weathy's water for 15-20 years now.

It is 1 of the most baffling things about the modern day conservative. That they willingly cut their own throats, their taxes go up, and their social safety nets are going away. But hey at least the rich are getting richer, for some reason that seems to be important to the Middle Class Conservative.
Click to expand...

FOURTY YEARS almost fourty years now.
 
KevinKohler said:
Instead of fighting over who pays what....


How about we deal with the real issue...which, why do we get so little for our tax dollars?
Click to expand...

This is a really good question that should be looked at very seriously by all of us and of course our elected officials. I think it is safe to say that both sides do not fully understand where money is spent and how that money and expenditure benefits all of us either collectively or individually. One of the reasons for this is that one side of the aisle made our very government the enemy long ago in order to justify stopping the New Deal, the New Society and whatever was left of them at the end of the 70s. This tactic was very successful in turning millions of us against our own government. I remember as a child never hearing a word from adults about high taxation either at the state or national level. In fact, my parents were proud to contribute to an improving nation. That sentiment is gone and elected officials should try to restart that pride again or our nation will crumble from neglect. I do have a site somewhere that lists all the things each of us benefit from through the national government. If the right will not sell those benefits to us, the left should co-opt it and begin turning minds again.
 
Conservative said:
So what? why is it so important that the federal gov't get more tax revenue from the rich while getting ZERO Federal Income Tax revenue from approximately 50% of income earners in this country? What assurance do you have that more revenue to the federal bureaucrats will be used to lower the deficit and address the debt?
Click to expand...

That whole zero Federal Income Tax thing is a myth. If you report a net income, you pay taxes on it. You only get to zero if you engage in creative accounting and deduct the Federal spending on anti-poverty programs or education.

If you want assurances on lowering the deficit and addressing the debt, I suggest you write to your Congressman/Senators. I can tell you one thing - slashing taxes on the wealthy and bringing down tax revenues isn't going to do the job - all it does is make the problem worse.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom