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Thread: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

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    Re: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    Accumulated wealth is a tricky thing to measure. First off, I don't even think you could measure it without forcing individuals to disclose so much information that it'd be a violation of their 4th Amendment rights. Are you seriously going to force everyone to disclose the assessed value of everything that they own? There's a painting on my wall I inherited from my grandmother.... she could have bought it at an auction at Christie's for $2 million - or she could have gotten it at a flea market. How do I know? What if I have a party one day and my friend's date is an art appraiser and she identifies it as a lost Titian? Now all of a sudden it's worth an estimated $120 million. Are you going to force me to sell it immediately to pay the taxes on it?

    Secondly, you run into the valuation problem... asset values go up and down all of the time. How do you know what something is really worth until you sell it? If I've got $200,000 in Wireless Genomics.com stock... do I pay taxes on that $200,000? What if it tanks tomorrow and it's only worth $100,000? Do I get a refund?
    Stock investment was all I was looking at taxing.
    If the average value of your stock for the tax year was $200,000 you would be taxed a percentage of $200,000 and if the following year it tanked, you would pay a percentage of the average value for that year.

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    Re: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Individual View Post
    Stock investment was all I was looking at taxing.
    If the average value of your stock for the tax year was $200,000 you would be taxed a percentage of $200,000 and if the following year it tanked, you would pay a percentage of the average value for that year.
    So why wouldn't I just put my money into real estate then?
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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    Re: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

    The New York Times, April 15, 2019

    Their Tax Rate Is 0%: You should be jealous of Amazon, G.M. and Coors, By David Leonhardt

    Amazon. Delta Air Lines. Chevron. IBM. General Motors. Molson Coors. Eli Lilly.

    What do these companies have in common? They paid no federal taxes last year.

    Thanks to President Trump’s 2017 tax law, the number of Fortune 500 companies that pay no federal taxes roughly doubled last year, to 60, according to an analysis by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a research group. Some of them effectively paid negative taxes, because they received a refund.

    The number of companies paying no taxes has risen for two main reasons. First, the Trump tax law expanded some corporate tax breaks, such as the one for the purchase of machinery and vehicles. Second, the law reduced the top-line corporate tax rate, which means that some companies now have a low enough tax bill that they can wipe it out entirely with tax breaks.

    Altogether, the law led to a 31 percent decline in corporate-tax revenue last year. That decline has helped cause an increase in the deficit. As the law professors Rebecca Kysar and Linda Sugin have written, the Trump tax cut is financed “on the backs of future generations.”

    Opinion | Their Tax Rate Is 0% - The New York Times

    ---------

    Republicans like to claim that when they cut taxes for the rich and corporations they reduce loop holes, so that the rich and corporations end up paying more. This is not the way things work. Making the rich richer is the only thing Republican politicians really care about. It is the only thing they do.

    For years public opinion surveys have indicated popular support for higher taxes for rich people and corporations. Creating a steeply progressive tax system should be the issue voters associate the Democrat Party with rather than stuff like affirmative action, easing restrictions on immigration, reparations, and letting criminals out of prison. Democrats need to leave social issues alone and concentrate on the economic issues that once enabled them to dominate the United States.

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    Re: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    So why wouldn't I just put my money into real estate then?
    Why not, it's already taxed.

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    Re: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Individual View Post
    Why not, it's already taxed.
    Probably not at the same rate you'd have to tax securities, though.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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    Re: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    Probably not at the same rate you'd have to tax securities, though.
    That's correct.

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    Stuart Varney Livid Over Fox News Poll: 'Rich Are Not Paying Enough' Taxes

    Crooks and Liars 3/28/19 11:52am

    Stuart Varney enraged that taxing the rich is very popular with Americans (in a FOX poll no less!)
    By John Amato


    Fox Business Network's Stuart Varney was flabbergasted that a new Fox News poll showed 34% of their respondents said the "rich are not paying enough" taxes.

    The rise in popularity of progressive policies like "making the rich pay their fair share" has made Fox News and Trump's administration focus on and demonize rising young newly-elected politicians like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez...

    And the dislike of the Republican bourgeoisie class only intensified after Trump and Republicans passed a tax cut for the rich.

    At the four-minute mark of Varney & Co., host Stuart Varney brought on John Lonski, Chief Capital economist for Moody, to bitch and moan about the new Fox Poll.

    Varney, "New Fox poll, got to tell you about this one, 34 percent say the rich are not paying enough in taxes. 34 percent, not paying enough, the rich. Well, that's interesting. Hey, John Lonski, I thought that number would be a lot higher, actually."

    That number was the highest one recorded in the poll when asking respondents, "What bother you most about paying taxes?"

    Lonski said, "But it still shows us, I think, that over time, the country has been drifting to the left on income taxation. That percentage was lower when this survey was previously conducted. For some reason, people feel that the rich are not paying their fair share...

    No one stops pursuing wealth because their taxes will be higher.

    Wealth inequality stifles the ability of working people to be able to provide for their families and have affordable good healthcare. It's time to fix that by making rich people pay their fair share in taxes.

    Stuart Varney Livid Over Fox News Poll: 'Rich Are Not Paying Enough' Taxes | Crooks and Liars

    ---------

    The growing income gap is the Democrat's strongest issue. They should leave social issues along and concentrate on the shape of the economy.

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    Re: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
    The New York Times, April 15, 2019

    Their Tax Rate Is 0%: You should be jealous of Amazon, G.M. and Coors, By David Leonhardt

    Amazon. Delta Air Lines. Chevron. IBM. General Motors. Molson Coors. Eli Lilly.

    What do these companies have in common? They paid no federal taxes last year.

    Thanks to President Trump’s 2017 tax law, the number of Fortune 500 companies that pay no federal taxes roughly doubled last year, to 60, according to an analysis by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a research group. Some of them effectively paid negative taxes, because they received a refund.

    The number of companies paying no taxes has risen for two main reasons. First, the Trump tax law expanded some corporate tax breaks, such as the one for the purchase of machinery and vehicles. Second, the law reduced the top-line corporate tax rate, which means that some companies now have a low enough tax bill that they can wipe it out entirely with tax breaks.

    Altogether, the law led to a 31 percent decline in corporate-tax revenue last year. That decline has helped cause an increase in the deficit. As the law professors Rebecca Kysar and Linda Sugin have written, the Trump tax cut is financed “on the backs of future generations.”

    Opinion | Their Tax Rate Is 0% - The New York Times

    ---------

    Republicans like to claim that when they cut taxes for the rich and corporations they reduce loop holes, so that the rich and corporations end up paying more. This is not the way things work. Making the rich richer is the only thing Republican politicians really care about. It is the only thing they do.

    For years public opinion surveys have indicated popular support for higher taxes for rich people and corporations. Creating a steeply progressive tax system should be the issue voters associate the Democrat Party with rather than stuff like affirmative action, easing restrictions on immigration, reparations, and letting criminals out of prison. Democrats need to leave social issues alone and concentrate on the economic issues that once enabled them to dominate the United States.
    Interesting partisan information yet still never an answer to the question as to how having any corporation paying Zero in Federal Income taxes affects the people here demonizing Amazon and other companies and if employees of those companies aren't indeed paying taxes? Wonder how much tax revenue the gov't would receive without these employees? Keep cutting off your nose in spite of your face on this issue. Corporations reduced taxable income last year because of wage, benefit increases but that reality is ignored

    What is also ignored is what benefits corporations offer the communities within the state and local communities. Wonder why the left doesn't address state and local benefits from corporations?

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    Re: Stuart Varney Livid Over Fox News Poll: 'Rich Are Not Paying Enough' Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
    Crooks and Liars 3/28/19 11:52am

    Stuart Varney enraged that taxing the rich is very popular with Americans (in a FOX poll no less!)
    By John Amato


    Fox Business Network's Stuart Varney was flabbergasted that a new Fox News poll showed 34% of their respondents said the "rich are not paying enough" taxes.

    The rise in popularity of progressive policies like "making the rich pay their fair share" has made Fox News and Trump's administration focus on and demonize rising young newly-elected politicians like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez...

    And the dislike of the Republican bourgeoisie class only intensified after Trump and Republicans passed a tax cut for the rich.

    At the four-minute mark of Varney & Co., host Stuart Varney brought on John Lonski, Chief Capital economist for Moody, to bitch and moan about the new Fox Poll.

    Varney, "New Fox poll, got to tell you about this one, 34 percent say the rich are not paying enough in taxes. 34 percent, not paying enough, the rich. Well, that's interesting. Hey, John Lonski, I thought that number would be a lot higher, actually."

    That number was the highest one recorded in the poll when asking respondents, "What bother you most about paying taxes?"

    Lonski said, "But it still shows us, I think, that over time, the country has been drifting to the left on income taxation. That percentage was lower when this survey was previously conducted. For some reason, people feel that the rich are not paying their fair share...

    No one stops pursuing wealth because their taxes will be higher.

    Wealth inequality stifles the ability of working people to be able to provide for their families and have affordable good healthcare. It's time to fix that by making rich people pay their fair share in taxes.

    Stuart Varney Livid Over Fox News Poll: 'Rich Are Not Paying Enough' Taxes | Crooks and Liars

    ---------

    The growing income gap is the Democrat's strongest issue. They should leave social issues along and concentrate on the shape of the economy.
    Since you believe this to be the case as well, please tell us what percentage of one's income should go to federal, state, and local taxes? Then tell me where states get their money when the federal gov't raises taxes on anyone in the state?

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    Re: Fox News Poll: What bugs voters most about taxes? Rich not paying enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    So why wouldn't I just put my money into real estate then?
    Many reasons explain why you shouldn't do this. The first is that this would be an extremely concentrated risk exposure, with no source of variation left to offset any potential decline in times of crisis and no benefit from exposure to other factors influencing asset prices. The second concerns the liquidity of those assets. The slippage associated with real estate can be enormous: it might take months to sell these assets. This means missing out on other opportunities because you can't move fast enough. And beware: the lower trading frequency of real estate smoothens all price indexes, so you will always underestimate the real volatility of those prices, often resorting to appraisal values instead or restricted transaction sets. In essence, it's harder to put a number on the risk related to real estate investment than it is for some large-cap stocks or governmental fixed income securities (say, from western democracies).

    The real upside of real estate is precisely what transaction costs and delays might create, namely the possibility for sustained inefficient pricing. It involves unusually high prices, requires some hands-on knowledge to evaluate the value of a property as a business activity (because renting is a business activity) and you don't have frequent updates on market prices for identical assets because very few buildings are exactly comparable. So, maybe arbitrage profits are possible here. But since it's a zero-sum game, you need skill: if you don't have access to privileged relationships, knowledge or information, I'd say don't even bother.

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