• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump Admin no longer forecasting 3% growth

James972 said:
if I was I'll pay you $10,000. Bet????
Click to expand...

You were asked a question. A random internet person who ends reponses with 1+1 = 2 is never going to honor a $10k internet bet.

So i will ask you: did profits double during the Obama administration?
 
Kushinator said:
You were asked a question. A random internet person who ends reponses with 1+1 = 2 is never going to honor a $10k internet bet.

So i will ask you: did profits double during the Obama administration?
Click to expand...

Don't know but probably as part time for economic reasons reduces payroll expenses impacting profits. Interesting how corporate profits continue to be an issue but not the employment created by those profits or investment in long term viability and competitiveness.
 
Conservative said:
Don't know but probably as part time for economic reasons reduces payroll expenses impacting profits. Interesting how corporate profits continue to be an issue but not the employment created by those profits or investment in long term viability and competitiveness.
Click to expand...

Some corporations had a short term profit boom. General Motors and Solyndra are examples of this. Obama grew their profit a great deal by throwing taxpayer money at them. On the other hand several major sectors took a huge financial hit. The banking industry and home building industries are examples of this. Obama policies seriously damaged both of these industries.

Anyone who is in business will tell you it is nearly impossible to grow your profits by double in a short time in an established business. You are limited by competition. The same conditions that affect you also affect your competition. Under Obama labor costs dropped. The high unemployment rate necessitated people working for less or without bonuses or raises. However, this same condition applied to your competition. Therefore for you to be competitive, you had to lower your pricing to reflect the lower labor cost. Thus, the customer is seeing the benefit of your lower operating costs not you.

In truth, the unrealistic EPA regulations, high fuel costs, and increase in government regulations under Obama made it very hard to turn a profit. The only thing that floated the economy during those years was the zero interest rates.
 
Conservative said:
Don't know but probably as part time for economic reasons reduces payroll expenses impacting profits.
Click to expand...

We know the story about full time employment:

fredgraph.png


Typical conman ignorance of data.
Interesting how corporate profits continue to be an issue but not the employment created by those profits or investment in long term viability and competitiveness.
Click to expand...

In other words, you have absolutely nothing of substance to offer.
 
Xelor said:
Yes. His Admin says one thing. He says another. Trumpkins, being as dumb as their eponymous leader, will think he knows more than the experts in Admin and think we're going to realize 4%-6% growth.

Trump's Admin has long said the wall isn't going to achieve the ends Trump's declared for it, yet we are in a state of wall-driven national emergency.

I wonder how much else Trump's Admin will say that Trump rejects and his disciples take his word for it....


Red:
Anyone with enough sense to pound sand knew those projections were but pipe dreams to begin with.
Click to expand...

Yeah we should go back to what lefties had under obama .....no year above 3% GDP. Bravo.....bravo.
 
Kushinator said:
You were asked a question. A random internet person who ends responds with 1+1 = 2 is never going to honor a $10k internet bet.

So i will ask you: did profits double during the Obama administration?
Click to expand...

The facts are literally in post #377 (page 30). James doesn't like facts.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Yeah we should go back to what lefties had under obama .....no year above 3% GDP. Bravo.....bravo.
Click to expand...
Don't tell the right-wing noise machine but we haven't had any years under Trump above 3% either. 2018 was no better than 2015, under Obama -- and Obama didn't have to give away tax-cuts to rich people to get there or balloon the deficit.

fredgraph.png
 
MTAtech said:
Don't tell the right-wing noise machine but we haven't had any years under Trump above 3% either. 2018 was no better than 2015, under Obama -- and Obama didn't have to give away tax-cuts to rich people to get there or balloon the deficit.

fredgraph.png
Click to expand...
Trumps only been President for .........never mind.. Jesus.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Trumps only been President for .........never mind.. Jesus.
Click to expand...
The fact is that the standard right-wing talking point is that Obama never had better than 3% annual growth. The fact that Obama inherited the worst recession since the Great Depression, which contained trillions in overhang, never seems to make it into their equation. Trump inherited Obama's growth economy and even with tax-cuts and increased government spending couldn't hit the 3% mark.

Economists are predicting that growth in future years will be slower than now. If that happens, with all the bluster about 4, 5, and 6% growth, Trump won't have any better growth than Obama.
 
MTAtech said:
The fact is that the standard right-wing talking point is that Obama never had better than 3% annual growth. The fact that Obama inherited the worst recession since the Great Depression, which contained trillions in overhang, never seems to make it into their equation. Trump inherited Obama's growth economy and even with tax-cuts and increased government spending couldn't hit the 3% mark.

Economists are predicting that growth in future years will be slower than now. If that happens, with all the bluster about 4, 5, and 6% growth, Trump won't have any better growth than Obama.
Click to expand...

Obama had 8 years..he failed...and that's a stone cold fact. If you honestly think The Trump econony is obamas doing...that is hilariously deranged thinking. Obama himself said jobs were not coming back...insert magic wand waving. Trump has proven him and the left wrong. You guys need to begin accepting that your ideology is wrong.
 
Last edited:
Kushinator said:
We know the story about full time employment:

fredgraph.png


Typical conman ignorance of data.


In other words, you have absolutely nothing of substance to offer.
Click to expand...

Apparently you don't since you haven't answered the question as to why Businesses reduced hours during the Obama term leading to 8-9 million part time employees for economic reasons. When exactly did that number get back to pre recession levels and when did the U-6 follow suit

You post pretty charts none with context. Why is it so important that corporations pay federal income taxes and how much difference was there between normal tax collection and 2018? Isn't it possible that wage, benefit, and dividend increases affected taxable income and that is what cost the federal gov't revenue from corporate taxes?

How do you explain the 3.2% GDP growth in the first quarter of 2019 and the 263,000 jobs created in April? All this gloom and doom you and the radicals left isn't resonating with the American people because they see actual results.
 
AlphaOmega said:
Obama had 8 years..he failed...and that's a stone cold fact. If you honestly think The Trump econony is obamas doing...that is hilariously deranged thinking. Obama himself said jobs were not coming back...insert magic wand waving. Trump has proven him and the left wrong. You guys need to begin accepting that your ideology is wrong.
Click to expand...
A) You mischaracterize what Obama said. He said, "some of those jobs are not coming back" and he was right. Trump made a lot of promises to coal miners -- promising them that the high paying jobs will be coming back. He gutted environmental regulations thinking those were hampering coal. What happened? Was there a huge increase in coal jobs? No. Coal is on it's decades long decline in employment.

B) There isn't a huge increase in jobs in general. If we look at the below chart, we see that the last two years aren't any better than others within the last five years.

YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDecYTDFor YR
2011
202132323219523561122236204132204 786 2,075
2012355262238839972153170189158158237 938 2,174
201319527913619222418110524218922526767 802 2,302
2014177168250327221324227188311258286269 922 3,006
201521324877300319170293122133339235280 838 2,729
20169023223421115282336135270128170215 767 2,318
201725214112721312822920418718260220174 733 2,153
2018171330182196270262178282108277196227 879 2,679
201931256189263 820 820

C) Tax cuts have hurt most Americans and especially rural America. A few weeks ago Trump told a cheering rally that his cuts in the estate tax have helped farmers. This claim is, however, totally false; PolitiFact rated it “pants on fire.” What about protectionism? The U.S. farm sector is hugely dependent on access to world markets, much more so than the economy as a whole. American soybean growers export half of what they produce; wheat farmers export 46 percent of their crop. China, in particular, has become a key market for U.S. farm products. That’s why Trump’s recent rage-tweeting over trade, which raised the prospect of an expanded trade war, sent grain markets to a 42-year low.

TO RECAP: Ignoring the bragging and cluster, Trump's GDP and job growth is nearly identical to Obama's, which Trump ridiculed. Job sectors that Trump promised he'll get back aren't coming back but Trump's attacks on Medicaid and the ACA are really hurting those workers.
 
MTAtech said:
A) You mischaracterize what Obama said. He said, "some of those jobs are not coming back" and he was right. Trump made a lot of promises to coal miners -- promising them that the high paying jobs will be coming back. He gutted environmental regulations thinking those were hampering coal. What happened? Was there a huge increase in coal jobs? No. Coal is on it's decades long decline in employment.

B) There isn't a huge increase in jobs in general. If we look at the below chart, we see that the last two years aren't any better than others within the last five years.

YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDecYTDFor YR
2011
202132323219523561122236204132204 786 2,075
2012355262238839972153170189158158237 938 2,174
201319527913619222418110524218922526767 802 2,302
2014177168250327221324227188311258286269 922 3,006
201521324877300319170293122133339235280 838 2,729
20169023223421115282336135270128170215 767 2,318
201725214112721312822920418718260220174 733 2,153
2018171330182196270262178282108277196227 879 2,679
201931256189263 820 820

C) Tax cuts have hurt most Americans and especially rural America. A few weeks ago Trump told a cheering rally that his cuts in the estate tax have helped farmers. This claim is, however, totally false; PolitiFact rated it “pants on fire.” What about protectionism? The U.S. farm sector is hugely dependent on access to world markets, much more so than the economy as a whole. American soybean growers export half of what they produce; wheat farmers export 46 percent of their crop. China, in particular, has become a key market for U.S. farm products. That’s why Trump’s recent rage-tweeting over trade, which raised the prospect of an expanded trade war, sent grain markets to a 42-year low.

TO RECAP: Ignoring the bragging and cluster, Trump's GDP and job growth is nearly identical to Obama's, which Trump ridiculed. Job sectors that Trump promised he'll get back aren't coming back but Trump's attacks on Medicaid and the ACA are really hurting those workers.
Click to expand...

You are comparing 2 years to 8. Trump has done miracles in recovering from obamas disasterous 8 years.
 
AlphaOmega said:
You are comparing 2 years to 8. Trump has done miracles in recovering from obamas disasterous 8 years.
Click to expand...
I guess numbers aren't your strong point as the actual numbers show that there was no disaster to recover from and now is about the same as yesterday.
 
MTAtech said:
A) You mischaracterize what Obama said. He said, "some of those jobs are not coming back" and he was right. Trump made a lot of promises to coal miners -- promising them that the high paying jobs will be coming back. He gutted environmental regulations thinking those were hampering coal. What happened? Was there a huge increase in coal jobs? No. Coal is on it's decades long decline in employment.

B) There isn't a huge increase in jobs in general. If we look at the below chart, we see that the last two years aren't any better than others within the last five years.



C) Tax cuts have hurt most Americans and especially rural America. A few weeks ago Trump told a cheering rally that his cuts in the estate tax have helped farmers. This claim is, however, totally false;
PolitiFact rated it “pants on fire.” What about protectionism? The U.S. farm sector is hugely dependent on access to world markets, much more so than the economy as a whole. American soybean growers export half of what they produce; wheat farmers export 46 percent of their crop. China, in particular, has become a key market for U.S. farm products. That’s why Trump’s recent rage-tweeting over trade, which raised the prospect of an expanded trade war, sent grain markets to a /I][/B] Ignoring the bragging and cluster, Trump's GDP and job growth is nearly identical to Obama's, which Trump ridiculed. Job sectors that Trump promised he'll get back aren't coming back but Trump's attacks on Medicaid and the ACA are really hurting those workers.
Click to expand...

How on earth do tax cuts hurt Americans? People keeping more of what they earn really bothers you, doesn't it? Do you really believe someone else's income belongs to the federal gov't?

When you post job creation have you ever considered context or all jobs the same to you, full and part time? How do you explain businesses cutting hours during the Obama term and increasing them during the Trump term causing part time for economic reason jobs to fall returning to full time jobs?

You have a biased partisan point of view and respond to only the posts you believe makes your point when the reality is the Democratic Liberal playbook is on full display, ignoring how your posts are rebuked but official data.

Stating that there has been little improvement since the tax cuts went into effect is a gross exaggeration of data as the context shows marked improvement and continued destruction of the liberal argument and belief that Trump would destroy the economy. The 3.2% GDP growth without massive gov't spending is something you radicals will never recognize just like you ignored the 263,000 jobs created in April after predicting a slowdown this year.

It is sad that in order for your ideology to succeed, America has to fail and that isn't happening which is why you ignore any post that focuses on results and not personal opinions especially yours
 
Conservative said:
How on earth do tax cuts hurt Americans?
...
Click to expand...
The big tax cuts were for corporations and the rich. One of the studies by Trump's own Agriculture Department, economists showed that to the extent that farmers saw tax reductions, most of the benefits went to the richest 10%, while poor farmers actually saw a tax increases.

That's how.
 
MTAtech said:
The big tax cuts were for corporations and the rich. One of the studies by Trump's own Agriculture Department, economists showed that to the extent that farmers saw tax reductions, most of the benefits went to the richest 10%, while poor farmers actually saw a tax increases.

That's how.
Click to expand...

Two problems here, first of all tax cuts went to ALL Federal Income Tax payers

Second, you cannot give a federal income tax cut to people who don't pay Federal Income Taxes


Keep spreading the false narrative and totally ignoring the economic results being generated. How does Trump have a 56% approval rating on the economy with all these negative attacks on the tax cuts? Your article on farmers was September 2018 and ignores what is happening today.

Benefits went to ALL taxpayers with of course the ones paying the most getting the most benefit HOWEVER, that doesn't change reality that the top 1% pay 40% of Federal Income taxes and 44% of income earners pay ZERO!! You cannot seem to comprehend or recognize reality.
 
MTAtech said:
I guess numbers aren't your strong point as the actual numbers show that there was no disaster to recover from and now is about the same as yesterday.
Click to expand...

oh everyone...Obama did a great job at 8 yrs of under 3%. Nothing to see here...move along
 
Moderate Right said:
You guys make excuse after excuse after excuse. The funny part is, you've had to make excuses for over two years now. Unemployment is at a 50 year low. How many presidents does that span? I'm sure you've got an excuse for this too.
Click to expand...

That builds from previous years. Economics is a study of the long run.
 
for those who like purdy equations like a certain poster i know ;)
0 ≤ c(K1) − c(K2) ≤ (K2 − K1)e−rT

Math and reality is more complex than 1+1=2
 
Last edited:
bomberfox said:
That builds from previous years. Economics is a study of the long run.
Click to expand...

LOL. If the economy had tanked two months after Trump became president you would have been all over it. There would be no "long run".
 
Conservative said:
Benefits went to ALL taxpayers with of course the ones paying the most getting the most benefit HOWEVER, that doesn't change reality that the top 1% pay 40% of Federal Income taxes and 44% of income earners pay ZERO!! You cannot seem to comprehend or recognize reality.
Click to expand...

Overall tax system is not nearly as progressive as you are implying. When you account for state, sales, property taxes (with some being quite regressive), you get a barely progressive picture:

taxes_barely_regressive.jpg

In fact Trump tax cuts made our system LESS progressive. So, even AFTER accounting for higher-income people paying more into the system, they got DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGHER tax breaks.

trump_cuts_affects2.jpg

Finally, this does not even account for tax breaks rich people got as owners of corporations. After all corporate tax cuts quite enriched the wealthy. Did you notice all the stock buybacks happening lately? Yes, they were fueled by the tax cuts.
 
Conservative said:
Apparently you don't since you haven't answered the question as to why Businesses reduced hours during the Obama term leading to 8-9 million part time employees for economic reasons. When exactly did that number get back to pre recession levels and when did the U-6 follow suit

You post pretty charts none with context. Why is it so important that corporations pay federal income taxes and how much difference was there between normal tax collection and 2018? Isn't it possible that wage, benefit, and dividend increases affected taxable income and that is what cost the federal gov't revenue from corporate taxes?

How do you explain the 3.2% GDP growth in the first quarter of 2019 and the 263,000 jobs created in April? All this gloom and doom you and the radicals left isn't resonating with the American people because they see actual results.
Click to expand...

In other words, all you have to respond with is:

tenor.gif
 
Slavister said:
Overall tax system is not nearly as progressive as you are implying. When you account for state, sales, property taxes (with some being quite regressive), you get a barely progressive picture:

View attachment 67256511

In fact Trump tax cuts made our system LESS progressive. So, even AFTER accounting for higher-income people paying more into the system, they got DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGHER tax breaks.

View attachment 67256512

Finally, this does not even account for tax breaks rich people got as owners of corporations. After all corporate tax cuts quite enriched the wealthy. Did you notice all the stock buybacks happening lately? Yes, they were fueled by the tax cuts.
Click to expand...

Pretty charts that support the socialist ideology, the ideology which this country wasn't built upon. All this effort to destroy wealth creation and take away incentive is right out of that booming European economy and why people are breaking down the walls to get into those countries.

You and your radical friends need a history lesson, this country was founded upon the principle of a small central gov't with power vested at the state and local levels which are closest to the people. Liberals have found a way to create permanent career jobs by making others dependent and that is what you are promoting. You live in the wrong country and most agree except for the minority of radicals who want to destroy this country from within

Not sure where you got your education but it wasn't in an accredited school for history and basic civics along with economics isn't being taught. Taking from someone else to give to people you support was never the foundation upon which we were created. Sad to see people like you who were taught that someone else is responsible for your personal responsibility issues. 44% of income earning Americans aren't paying any Federal Income taxes yet you focus on the top 1% that pay 40%? That is illogical and shows just how radical you and your friends are.
 
Kushinator said:
In other words, all you have to respond with is:

tenor.gif
Click to expand...

right, actual data and results don't resonate with you and you appeal to the other radicals who have no understanding of our economy and what made this country great. You, MTA and others are out of touch with reality
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom