Trump Admin no longer forecasting 3% growth

MTAtech said:

I am sure that irony escapes you. I was quoting the actual number of 2.9% that was currently released. YOU are predicting a revised number will be 3% or more. Yet, I'm the one you say relies upon predictions.

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The difference between you and me is stark, you see I buy actual results and the policies that generate them, you buy opinions and predictions that you want to believe. Actual results matter not predictions. Do you honestly believe that the 5 million new employees created in the last two years care about percentage change?

Why are you and the rest of the left focused only on trends and not actual dollars? Why are state and local revenues not as important to you as Federal revenue?

Conservative said:

The difference between you and me is stark, you see I buy actual results and the policies that generate them, you buy opinions and predictions that you want to believe. Actual results matter not predictions. Do you honestly believe that the 5 million new employees created in the last two years care about percentage change?

Why are you and the rest of the left focused only on trends and not actual dollars? Why are state and local revenues not as important to you as Federal revenue?

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Umm..no you don't buy actual results. When the actual results don't match what you say... you change your tune to a different argument. " What about what the federal government is supposed to pay for" and all the other complete BS that you spout to divert from the actual facts.. that have been presented to you over and over.


The economy was improving under OBama.. That's a fact. That same trend has continued under Trump. Has nothing to do with trump (or Obama).. You have been shown the facts.

now the economy is starting to slow and is not going at the rate that the Trump administration and Trump crowd about. That's just another fact.

jaeger19 said:

Umm..no you don't buy actual results. When the actual results don't match what you say... you change your tune to a different argument. " What about what the federal government is supposed to pay for" and all the other complete BS that you spout to divert from the actual facts.. that have been presented to you over and over.


The economy was improving under OBama.. That's a fact. That same trend has continued under Trump. Has nothing to do with trump (or Obama).. You have been shown the facts.

now the economy is starting to slow and is not going at the rate that the Trump administration and Trump crowd about. That's just another fact.

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Then why don't you post the federal data showing the economy improving under Obama? I am waiting and you are ignoring the request. Starting to slow? We just came off the record setting cold in January and February and yet that polling data you love to quote when it is anti Trump is ignored when positive as the economic polls generated in March show

Regardless, you have an alternative to the Trump economic policies?? Let's hear them or do you want to show your liberal lean by always whining, complaining, and attacking Trump?

You seem to be like far too many who don't understand the components of GDP, what effect did the Obama stimulus have on GDP? And that stimulus spending was over and above the budgeted amount for gov't spending. learn the components before spouting your biased partisan anti Trump rhetoric

Conservative said:

Then why don't you post the federal data showing the economy improving under Obama? I am waiting and you are ignoring the request. Starting to slow? We just came off the record setting cold in January and February and yet that polling data you love to quote when it is anti Trump is ignored when positive as the economic polls generated in March show

Regardless, you have an alternative to the Trump economic policies?? Let's hear them or do you want to show your liberal lean by always whining, complaining, and attacking Trump?

You seem to be like far too many who don't understand the components of GDP, what effect did the Obama stimulus have on GDP? And that stimulus spending was over and above the budgeted amount for gov't spending. learn the components before spouting your biased partisan anti Trump rhetoric

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Already posted it Con..several times as did other posters. Posted the federal data that showed that you were wrong.. are wrong and continue to be wrong.

Look here you are again...

We just came off the record setting cold in January and February and yet that polling data you love to quote when it is anti Trump is ignored when positive as the economic polls generated in March show

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Show ANYWHERE.. that I have "quoted anti trump polling data"? Much less "love to post it"...cripes man... we are talking hard economic facts here..not "polling data".

And the fact is..that the economy was growing under Obama and continues the same trend under Trump... no amazing improvement.

And now...

More bs.:

Regardless, you have an alternative to the Trump economic policies?? Let's hear them or do you want to show your liberal lean by always whining, complaining, and attacking Trump?

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Of course I do. Number one..stop the trade war that is hurting American business especially farmers and causing us to lose marketshare in other countries. We are gaining nothing from it.

Too.. start by trying to balance the federal budget..by increasing taxes back to our typical levels and by decreasing spending on non essential items.... LIKE TRUMPS IDIOTIC "WALL".

Otherwise that's it.. because the president is not the be all and end all of the economy.

You seem to be like far too many who don't understand the components of GDP, what effect did the Obama stimulus have on GDP?

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Nope..understand it just find. The Obama stimulus stabilized our GDP when our economy was in recession. It helps prevent a further drop after a collapse of the housing market and subsequent banking crisis.

What was the purpose of Trumps "stimulus" ?

Cuz.. the economy basically has run just like it was under Obama.

T

rump regularly (and incorrectly) brags he’s added 4 million jobs since taking office. Regular readers may remember we gave the president Two Pinocchios for claiming that he created 1 million jobs about six months into his term.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the U.S. economy added 2,188,000 jobs in 2017 — Trump’s first year in office. So far, it has added 1,306,000 jobs in 2018. But the economy added more jobs in every year of Obama’s second term than it did in Trump’s first year. This holds true when examining the average number of jobs added per month.The monthly numbers suggest Trump is continuing an existing trend.

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jaeger19 said:

Already posted it Con..several times as did other posters. Posted the federal data that showed that you were wrong.. are wrong and continue to be wrong.

Look here you are again...


Show ANYWHERE.. that I have "quoted anti trump polling data"? Much less "love to post it"...cripes man... we are talking hard economic facts here..not "polling data".

And the fact is..that the economy was growing under Obama and continues the same trend under Trump... no amazing improvement.

And now...

More bs.:


Of course I do. Number one..stop the trade war that is hurting American business especially farmers and causing us to lose marketshare in other countries. We are gaining nothing from it.

Too.. start by trying to balance the federal budget..by increasing taxes back to our typical levels and by decreasing spending on non essential items.... LIKE TRUMPS IDIOTIC "WALL".

Otherwise that's it.. because the president is not the be all and end all of the economy.



Nope..understand it just find. The Obama stimulus stabilized our GDP when our economy was in recession. It helps prevent a further drop after a collapse of the housing market and subsequent banking crisis.

What was the purpose of Trumps "stimulus" ?

Cuz.. the economy basically has run just like it was under Obama.

T

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OMG, you people live in an alternate universe where reality is what you wanted to be. The Obama economic policies created the worst recovery and US history. The stimulus was an absolute failure and that stimulus was federal spending and added to the GDP

You have provided no data whatsoever to refute what I have posted and claiming that the Obama economy was growing is a false exaggeration of the actual results as the GDP in 2016 was less than 2015 and the GDP and 2017 first quarter was heading down vs 2016.

I really have no idea what your issue is but the constant 24/7 attacks on Trump serve no purpose other than the fuel more anger and hatred on the part of people that can't stand Trump anyway and want to return to the Obama malaise

You keep telling me that the trade War which really isn't a trade war is hurting American Business. That is absolute b******* and there's nothing that proves that to be true. You believe that other countries play nice with trade? You are very naive and very gullible.

Manipulation of currency goes on everywhere around the world and American businesses are at a disadvantage because the private sector. In foreign countries government involvement in gross domestic product is 50% or higher

Trump has done more in 2 years then any previous president other than Reagan to level the playing field and grow gross domestic product. GDP growth in 2 years has been to trillion dollars and 5 million jobs created. This isn't Armageddon as you and the radical left want to make it out to be

Only a liberal would continue to post 24/7 negatives and play right into the hands of the radical liberals. Change your lean-to what it really is

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Conservative said:

OMG, you people live in an alternate universe where reality is what you wanted to be. The Obama economic policies created the worst recovery and US history. The stimulus was an absolute failure and that stimulus was federal spending and added to the GDP

k

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Not according to the facts..it wasn't.

You have provided no data whatsoever to refute what I have posted and claiming that the Obama economy was growing is a false exaggeration of the actual results as the GDP in 2016 was less than 2015 and the GDP and 2017 first quarter was heading down vs 2016.

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Yep I have and so has everyone else.

I really have no idea what your issue is but the constant 24/7 attacks on Trump serve no purpose other than the fuel more anger and hatred on the part of people that can't stand Trump anyway and want to return to the Obama malaise

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Well.. I really have no idea why you feel the compulsion to lie. I mean.. 24/7 attacks? Cripes I am not on the board even one 24 hour period much less 7. So its just hyperbolic lying on your part.

I guess what you take as 24/7 attacks are pointing out the actual economic facts..rather than blindly swallowing the BS that is being spewed by the government regarding the economy.

Manipulation of currency goes on everywhere around the world and American businesses are at a disadvantage because the private sector. In foreign countries government involvement in gross domestic product is 50% or higher

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Yep.

rump has done more in 2 years then any previous president other than Reagan to level the playing field and grow gross domestic product.

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A bold faced lie that has already been disproved multiple times by multiple people.

This isn't Armageddon as you and the radical left want to make it out to be

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Nope..because I never ever ever.. have claimed the economy is"armegeddon"...not once..not ever..not even close.

Why must you persist in your lying?

jaeger19 said:

Not according to the facts..it wasn't.



Yep I have and so has everyone else.



Well.. I really have no idea why you feel the compulsion to lie. I mean.. 24/7 attacks? Cripes I am not on the board even one 24 hour period much less 7. So its just hyperbolic lying on your part.

I guess what you take as 24/7 attacks are pointing out the actual economic facts..rather than blindly swallowing the BS that is being spewed by the government regarding the economy.



Yep.

A bold faced lie that has already been disproved multiple times by multiple people.



Nope..because I never ever ever.. have claimed the economy is"armegeddon"...not once..not ever..not even close.

Why must you persist in your lying?

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Really interesting how my so-called bold-faced lies are never refuted with data. All I see from you is rhetoric and words never Trump results. The 24/7 Trump bashing isn't solely by you but you have a lot of help.

I see absolutely no value in continuing this with you as you bring nothing to the table other than your own personal opinion back by nothing but media Spin and left wing rhetoric

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Fletch said:

No, liberal morons called the tax cuts 'armageddon'

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A $1T annual budget deficit during a boom economy is pretty much economic armageddon.... The fact that we have yet to pay the consequences for doing something stupid does not been it wasn't stupid, it just means our stupidity has not yet caught up with us. When the economy softens and stimulus is required we will be running $2T per year deficits to dig ourselves out.

If our economy were truly healthy, we would be narrowing to eliminating budget deficits right now, not increasing them.

akyron said:

It is fascinating to watch liberal progressive "americans" crow gleefully about the countries potential woes.

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While at the same time crucify Trump over a slowing economy and not give the GOP any credit for low unemployment and impressive growth seen thus far.

Conservative said:

Really interesting how my so-called bold-faced lies are never refuted with data. All I see from you is rhetoric and words never Trump results. The 24/7 Trump bashing isn't solely by you but you have a lot of help.

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Well.. first.. many of your lies ARE refuted by the data.. in fact all of the economic ones.. have already been refuted multiple times.

Then their is your lies like 24/7 attacks.. .which I don't make

Nor the claim that I bring up anti trump polls...which I don't.

And so forth.

I see absolutely no value in continuing this with you as you bring nothing to the table other than your own personal opinion back by nothing but media Spin and left wing rhetoric

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Another bold faced lie. Cripes man.. look at post #54 where I posted the data on employment numbers that show that employment is just a continued trend from the Obama administration.
\
Stop lying. Look.. folks here can accept that ignorance
They can accept that the hyperpartisan ship
But the blatant disregard for the truth that you continually display? You cannot debate when the other person will lie.

digsbe said:

While at the same time crucify Trump over a slowing economy and not give the GOP any credit for low unemployment and impressive growth seen thus far.

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The trend in unemployment started YEARS ago. What you want is the rooster to get credit for the sunrise that happens with or without the rooster.

Notice, below, how unemployment trends improved once Trump got into office? Me neither.



As for growth -- where is the magnificent growth? It's similar growth that 's been occurring for years.

MTAtech said:

"Main Street" had a 3.7% unemployment rate in Nov 2018 before the tax-cuts. It jumped to 4.0% in Jan 2019, after the tax-cuts and is now at 3.8%. There is no evidence that "Main St" Americans are even marginally better-off than they were before the cuts.

The tax-cuts were supposed to usher in investment, yet even Wall Street indices are the same as they were before the tax-cut.

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Meanwhile residential rehabs and commercial construction is booming.

Consumer confidence is high.

Banks locked up loans tighter than a clam under Obama for how many years after their bailouts?

upsideguy said:

A $1T annual budget deficit during a boom economy is pretty much economic armageddon.... The fact that we have yet to pay the consequences for doing something stupid does not been it wasn't stupid, it just means our stupidity has not yet caught up with us. When the economy softens and stimulus is required we will be running $2T per year deficits to dig ourselves out.

If our economy were truly healthy, we would be narrowing to eliminating budget deficits right now, not increasing them.

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Calling it armageddon is stupid and hyperbolic. Perhaps if you guys could control yourselves, maybe we could take you seriously.

jaeger19 said:

Well.. first.. many of your lies ARE refuted by the data.. in fact all of the economic ones.. have already been refuted multiple times.

Then their is your lies like 24/7 attacks.. .which I don't make

Nor the claim that I bring up anti trump polls...which I don't.

And so forth.

Another bold faced lie. Cripes man.. look at post #54 where I posted the data on employment numbers that show that employment is just a continued trend from the Obama administration.
\
Stop lying. Look.. folks here can accept that ignorance
They can accept that the hyperpartisan ship
But the blatant disregard for the truth that you continually display? You cannot debate when the other person will lie.

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Again context matters and employment data includes part time for economic reason employment want to explain the difference between Obama and Trump? This is why you have no credibility. Your idea of continuing Obama results ignores that factor

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MTAtech said:

The trend in unemployment started YEARS ago. What you want is the rooster to get credit for the sunrise that happens with or without the rooster.

Notice, below, how unemployment trends improved once Trump got into office? Me neither.

As for growth -- where is the magnificent growth? It's similar growth that 's been occurring for years.

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Where's 2009?

Bullseye said:

Where's 2009?

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We're discussing post recession growth. Obviously, a recession has negative growth. In any case, do we need to go back ten years? My point, in case you missed it, was that we have been having similar growth numbers for years. So, there is no evidence that Trump policies suddenly spurred anything.

MTAtech said:

Their 2019 Economic Report of the President has scaled back its growth projection to below 3%. See page 527, “current-law baseline forecast is for output growth to moderate as the capital-to-output ratio asymptotically approaches a higher steady-state level in response to business tax reform, and as the near-term effects of the TCJA’s individual provisions on the rate of growth dissipate into a permanent level effect.” That blather means that the Trump tax cuts temporarily stimulated the economy by jacking up the deficit, but now that stimulative effect is wearing off, the growth level is expected to sink below 3% a year.

In other words, the "mediocre" economic growth that those with Trump Devotion Syndrome (TDS) have been telling us existed under Obama, is going to be the standard for the Trump Administration. Gone are the 4-6% growth projections previously boasted about.

To re-emphasize my point, the 2017 tax-cut gave the economy a temporary and slight jolt at a huge permanent cost to the Treasury.

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Liberal leftist democrats love taxation for personal reasons. Never mind that the proven fact that too high the taxation the more damage to the economy and too low the taxation the harder to pay the government bills. High taxation does not help the economy keep moving briskly but it does help the government keep paying down its ever expanding debt and obligations brought on by excessive government spending.

Modern democrats are going full bore socialist. They want to raise taxes through the roof in exchange for giving everyone the same basic low level government benefits in exchange for their former freedom to provide for those benefits themselves. And the modern democrats are not bound by budget in their proposals either. They propose giving away thousands of dollars a month to kids for not working while supposedly looking for jobs; firing all insurance providers and stepping in with finely-tuned, highly trained, and better organized government experts (a joke) to take over the healthcare insurance industry at a cost of trillions to the taxpayers; giving illegal immigrants money, homes, schooling, food, housing, but no jobs; paying tens of trillions to help solve the worldwide climate change 'problem;' giving all kids free college at taxpayer expense, not the expense of the colleges and staff; and so forth. For democrats it's 'damn the debt and budget torpedoes, full steam ahead into fiscal insanity.'

marke said:

Liberal leftist democrats love taxation for personal reasons. Never mind that the proven fact that too high the taxation the more damage to the economy and too low the taxation the harder to pay the government bills. High taxation does not help the economy keep moving briskly but it does help the government keep paying down its ever expanding debt and obligations brought on by excessive government spending.

Modern democrats are going full bore socialist. They want to raise taxes through the roof in exchange for giving everyone the same basic low level government benefits in exchange for their former freedom to provide for those benefits themselves. And the modern democrats are not bound by budget in their proposals either. They propose giving away thousands of dollars a month to kids for not working while supposedly looking for jobs; firing all insurance providers and stepping in with finely-tuned, highly trained, and better organized government experts (a joke) to take over the healthcare insurance industry at a cost of trillions to the taxpayers; giving illegal immigrants money, homes, schooling, food, housing, but no jobs; paying tens of trillions to help solve the worldwide climate change 'problem;' giving all kids free college at taxpayer expense, not the expense of the colleges and staff; and so forth. For democrats it's 'damn the debt and budget torpedoes, full steam ahead into fiscal insanity.'

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Thank you for outlining your taxation ideology, which conservatives hold as a religious belief. Just like religion, there is no evidence that any of it is actually true. With taxation, there is no evidence that taxes that are not so high to be conficatory (something like above 70%) cause "damage to the economy."

Unless you think Denmark is a socialist country, there is no proposal by ANY Democrat to move to Socialism more than Denmark. You see, Republicans can't argue the merits of any current proposals, which are widely popular. So, they must stand on the rooftops and scream "DEMOCRATS ARE SOCIALISTS!" in hopes of scaring the voters. The problem is that Republicans have been calling Democrats ‘socialists’ for 90 years. They did it to scare Americans about Social Security, Medicare and the ACA. How has it been working out?

MTAtech said:

We're discussing post recession growth. Obviously, a recession has negative growth. In any case, do we need to go back ten years? My point, in case you missed it, was that we have been having similar growth numbers for years. So, there is no evidence that Trump policies suddenly spurred anything.

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Similar growth to you means some growth period not significant growth and it looks to me on your graph that 2016 growth was less than 2015 growth and isn't that what Trump inherited? First qtr. 2017 was a continuation of the 2016 decline and symbolic of the Obama failures.

You seem to have very low expectations of our economy and simply believe that there is GDP growth that is an upward trend when the reality was that trend was downward in 2016 and first quarter 2017. You also seem to not understand when there is massive gov't spending such as with the stimulus that will skew the quarterly GDP growth higher and isn't reflected in the yearly growth numbers

Gov't spending in the country averages around 20-25% of GDP. When it substantially increased it reflected in those high quarterly numbers you touted but yearly averaged out to worst recovery in Modern History. Keep touting the Obama failures showing nothing but partisanship

MTAtech said:

Thank you for outlining your taxation ideology, which conservatives hold as a religious belief. Just like religion, there is no evidence that any of it is actually true. With taxation, there is no evidence that taxes that are not so high to be conficatory (something like above 70%) cause "damage to the economy."

Unless you think Denmark is a socialist country, there is no proposal by ANY Democrat to move to Socialism more than Denmark. You see, Republicans can't argue the merits of any current proposals, which are widely popular. So, they must stand on the rooftops and scream "DEMOCRATS ARE SOCIALISTS!" in hopes of scaring the voters. The problem is that Republicans have been calling Democrats ‘socialists’ for 90 years. They did it to scare Americans about Social Security, Medicare and the ACA. How has it been working out?

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What percentage of GDP is gov't spending in Denmark? For some reason you believe it is the federal governments role to provide for your personal responsibility issues. Democratic socialism is still socialism and that is what is being promoted by the Democrats. Massive central gov't with more entitlement spending, laws, higher taxes, and regulations.

You see terms are created by the left to lesson the blow of their policies, socialism has now become democratic socialism just like liberals have become progressive. Name changes doesn't change ideology

MTAtech said:

Their 2019 Economic Report of the President has scaled back its growth projection to below 3%. See page 527, “current-law baseline forecast is for output growth to moderate as the capital-to-output ratio asymptotically approaches a higher steady-state level in response to business tax reform, and as the near-term effects of the TCJA’s individual provisions on the rate of growth dissipate into a permanent level effect.” That blather means that the Trump tax cuts temporarily stimulated the economy by jacking up the deficit, but now that stimulative effect is wearing off, the growth level is expected to sink below 3% a year.

In other words, the "mediocre" economic growth that those with Trump Devotion Syndrome (TDS) have been telling us existed under Obama, is going to be the standard for the Trump Administration. Gone are the 4-6% growth projections previously boasted about.

To re-emphasize my point, the 2017 tax-cut gave the economy a temporary and slight jolt at a huge permanent cost to the Treasury.

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People need to get it through their thick heads. Outside of monetary policy, there is little empirical evidence that tax rates (unless they are very high), regulation (unless its incredibly onerous), or any other fiscal policies at the federal level, can do anything to have a long term effect on the over all macro economy. Both Democrats and Republicans get far too much credit for periods of economic growth and too much blame for recessions.

Every postwar boom we have had in this country resulted from the invention / adoption of some new technology that resulted in a big productivity increase. Example: The 1960s and computers being used for corporate accounting / financials. The 80s and 90s and the IT revolution that lead to digitized inventories, production, and supply chain management.

Governments don't create those technological booms, people do. This is why you see no correlation between economic booms and whether a state has been traditional liberal or conservative. Take Texas a traditional conservative state with a good economy. Conservatives point to it, but there are other states like Mississippi that are traditionally conservative and have terrible economies. Take Washington state or Minnesota. Traditionally liberal states with strong economies. Yet there are also some traditionally liberal states that don't do as well like Illinois. The point being there is no consistent correlation there. It's based on private sector factors.

You want consistent 4% plus growth again, you are not going to find that with any government policy or tax cut. It will take the private sector inventing / adopting something that results in another boom.

Conservative said:

What percentage of GDP is gov't spending in Denmark? For some reason you believe it is the federal governments role to provide for your personal responsibility issues. Democratic socialism is still socialism and that is what is being promoted by the Democrats. Massive central gov't with more entitlement spending, laws, higher taxes, and regulations.

You see terms are created by the left to lesson the blow of their policies, socialism has now become democratic socialism just like liberals have become progressive. Name changes doesn't change ideology

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I am sure that you have the resources to find out what p% of GDP is government spending in Denmark. I really don't care what it is. Minimizing my taxes aren't the rule of my life.

In Denmark, nobody need worry about paying for Medical care because it's a government service. Sure, that adds onto their tax-bill. So what? Why should I care if the government pays for my health insurance or if my employer pays me less because they have to pay my insurance (plus sticking me with 25% of the premium?)

You also make a poor case when you disparage entitlement programs. In Denmark, childcare is a government program. In America, families would love to have childcare as a right. As a society, it makes Denmark more productive. This is one area where we think differently. You bemoan entitlements as something dirty that makes people "dependent." I look at them as helping people become independent -- independent of starvation, bankruptcy and undue stress.

American policy has been increasingly hostile to organized labor, and unions have virtually disappeared from the private sector; two-thirds of Danish workers are unionized. That results in far less income inequality that exists here.

Conservative ideology says that Denmark’s policy choices should be disastrous. But anyone who visits Denmark sees a country that is awfully prosperous.

MTAtech said:

I am sure that you have the resources to find out what p% of GDP is government spending in Denmark. I really don't care what it is. Minimizing my taxes aren't the rule of my life.

In Denmark, nobody need worry about paying for Medical care because it's a government service. Sure, that adds onto their tax-bill. So what? Why should I care if the government pays for my health insurance or if my employer pays me less because they have to pay my insurance (plus sticking me with 25% of the premium?)

You also make a poor case when you disparage entitlement programs. In Denmark, childcare is a government program. In America, families would love to have childcare as a right. As a society, it makes Denmark more productive. This is one area where we think differently. You bemoan entitlements as something dirty that makes people "dependent." I look at them as helping people become independent -- independent of starvation, bankruptcy and undue stress.

American policy has been increasingly hostile to organized labor, and unions have virtually disappeared from the private sector; two-thirds of Danish workers are unionized. That results in far less income inequality that exists here.

Conservative ideology says that Denmark’s policy choices should be disastrous. But anyone who visits Denmark sees a country that is awfully prosperous.

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No what seems to be important in your life is seeing more money go to the federal bureaucrats for spending in the name of compassion which makes you feel good but serves no purpose other than to buy votes by creating dependence. You keep ignoring state and local revenue as well as their role and responsibilities.

Yes, I have the Denmark numbers and it is over 50% of their GDP dependent on Gov't spending. Is that your desire in this country of 330 million Americans and 50 independent states?

You appear to not understand personal responsibility at all, is that the way you were raised? Risk taking, personal wealth creation provide incentive whereas gov't spending destroys incentive and fuels bureaucracy. When are you going to promote gov't control over what you eat or consume?

Denmark as less than 6 million people which is less than the population of NYC vs. the U.S. with 330 million Americans and 50 states. Awfully prosperous is perception but let's carry that further, the state of California is the bluest state in the nation giving Hillary a 4 million vote win, Agree? Would you also agree that it has incredible social services including "free" education, "free" healthcare, sanctuary cities to take care of illegals entering the country? Would you agree that California has among the highest EPA laws in the nation and focuses on healthful living?

With all those in place please explain to me then why it has the worst quality of life, the most homeless, the most in poverty, the highest wage gap, and the majority of the worst polluted cities in the nation?

You see, you think with your heart and ignore the actual results. Why would anyone support higher taxes without assurances of positive results including better healthcare, strong economic growth, less dependence, reduction of the deficit/debt?

akyron said:

It is fascinating to watch liberal progressive "americans" crow gleefully about the countries potential woes.

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Our next move is to shut down those evil oil companies and petrol chemical industries. We will send them packing to India and China. We don't need millions of middle and upper middle class jobs in this country. Everyone will work for the government. We can all be teachers, firemen, police, and politicians. The rest can go on welfare. Big government and the checks for free.

MTAtech said:

I am sure that you have the resources to find out what p% of GDP is government spending in Denmark. I really don't care what it is. Minimizing my taxes aren't the rule of my life.

In Denmark, nobody need worry about paying for Medical care because it's a government service. Sure, that adds onto their tax-bill. So what? Why should I care if the government pays for my health insurance or if my employer pays me less because they have to pay my insurance (plus sticking me with 25% of the premium?)

You also make a poor case when you disparage entitlement programs. In Denmark, childcare is a government program. In America, families would love to have childcare as a right. As a society, it makes Denmark more productive. This is one area where we think differently. You bemoan entitlements as something dirty that makes people "dependent." I look at them as helping people become independent -- independent of starvation, bankruptcy and undue stress.

American policy has been increasingly hostile to organized labor, and unions have virtually disappeared from the private sector; two-thirds of Danish workers are unionized. That results in far less income inequality that exists here.

Conservative ideology says that Denmark’s policy choices should be disastrous. But anyone who visits Denmark sees a country that is awfully prosperous.

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Sorry, forgot to post the pollution report for cities in the country, another nail in the coffin of liberalism as liberals always give lip service to problems never solutions

Infographic: This report ranks the most polluted cities in America. Guess where LA landed | 89.3 KPCC