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Reparations for Slavery

BahamaBob said:
The vast majority of Confederate war casualties were not slave owners.
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More fool them, then. But they wouldn't be the first brave soldiers to die propping up a system that didn't benefit them as much as they imagined.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The entity did nothing to harm current African Americans... in fact the opposite is true... the entity has given equal protection and rights, started programs to remedy the wrongs like AA, etc. Reparations are a horrible idea not to mention that it leaves out others that were harmed by the entity and society back in the day.
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African Americans today who are descendants of slaves are worse off because of slavery. And again, your focus on "current" African Americans is irrelevant. If a company wrongly refuses to pay one of its workers, and that worker then dies, the estate (i.e. descendants) of that worker can still sue and recover those wages. The passage of time doesn't provide an excuse.
 
ecofarm said:
You know they live on land that's only subject to federal jurisdiction and upon which they don't pay taxes, right?
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We're talking about paying damages caused by past injustice. How those hairs get split in a court of law is not my area of expertise but if a case can be made that allows for reparations to African Americans it sure looks like Native Americans could make the same case on the same grounds.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The entity did nothing to harm current African Americans... in fact the opposite is true... the entity has given equal protection and rights, started programs to remedy the wrongs like AA, etc. Reparations are a horrible idea not to mention that it leaves out others that were harmed by the entity and society back in the day.
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I’m still waiting for somebody to explain to me how it is that CJ Walker became the first self-made African American millionairess in the 1890s but blacks are poor in 2019 because slavery.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
We're talking about paying damages caused by past injustice. How those hairs get split in a court of law is not my area of expertise but if a case can be made that allows for reparations to African Americans it sure looks like Native Americans could make the same case on the same grounds.
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You've got it backwards.

Black people have finally got their feet under them and have realized other groups who were disenfranchised have been compensated so as to mitigate their marginalization. When black people were disenfranchised, they were not in the same state of organization enjoyed by Native Americans. They didn't have leaders with clout to negotiate a resolution. They were swept under the rug without any compensation whatsoever.

Well, the time has come. As we did with Native Americans, actions should be taken to mitigate marginalization.
 
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Lakryte said:
Not the point. The article does not support the view that slave labor was cheaper than paid labor throughout the United States as you claim. And regardless, what was cheaper is irrelevant because slaves weren't paid and thus they and their descendants are owed compensation.
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No one living is owed anything.

Lakryte said:
We most certainly are not.
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CJ Walker became a millionairess in the 1890s. Nobody can point to slavery as an excuse for their failure to rise out of poverty in 2019.
 
Napoleon said:
I’m still waiting for somebody to explain to me how it is that CJ Walker became the first self-made African American millionairess in the 1890s but blacks are poor in 2019 because slavery.
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I doubt anyone will ever be able to explain it to you. But, rest assured, most people understand.
 
Reparations is a stupid idea, formulated by corrupt individuals, in order to pander to the weak. But...like the offere of fre **** presented in the 'New Deal' it is hoped by demorats that this ploy will in the words of Lyndon Johnson, "keep those XXXXXXX voting democrat for the next 200 years"
 
Napoleon said:
No one living is owed anything.
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So idiotic it's pathetic. You know nothing of what you're trying to talk about. You have no clue whatsoever what it's all about. But you're against it. Gee. Wonder why.
 
Lakryte said:
Please provide data backing that up. Also, what really matters is whether paid labor would have been cheaper than slave labor as it actually existed. Would hired labor have been cheaper on plantations than slave labor? No. And whether or not there was a cheaper way doesn't change the fact that slaves were never paid and the federal government allowed this through the force of law. The federal government thus owes at the very least a debt of unpaid wages.


Pointing to other bad actors does not relieve the U.S. government of its obligations. If I kidnap someone and force them to work for me, I cannot point to the fact someone else did it first and therefore claim I owe nothing to my victims. The U.S. government continued and maintained a system of slavery, and thus owes a debt for the harms caused during the period of time for which it did so.
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Do some reading. There's a ton of economic information comparing the immigrant labor of the north to the slave labor of the south. Why do you think there was very little slavery in the north? And not all slaves were black. Again, go out and learn. Native Americans and white people were enslaved, and I am not speaking of indentures. You can also put your emotions aside. Many peoples suffered raw deals throughout history. No one owes them reparations. The forced reparations by Germany to their Nazi victims was based on proof of a national policy of proved theft. Nothing was stolen from American slaves, who unless born here, were already enslaved. Nor was slavery a national policy. As permitted under Federal law, it was because it was institutionally entrenched before the formation of the country. Try honest intellectual examination as objectively as possible. Despite the realities, that the majority of people are on welfare and not all black citizens have received welfare, a case can be made that Federal welfare payments were the reparations you are demanding.

The US government is not obligated to pay the debts of private citizens. Slavery was established in America before the US government existed.

Try to make an effort to not see all writings literally, some are sarcastic. No one is seeking anything from long dead Arab and African slavers, nor the imperialistic English and Spanish.
 
Napoleon said:
No one living is owed anything.
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Obviously not true. People have all sorts of obligations to each other. I cannot force you too work as my slave. If I do, I will owe you the value of your work as compensation for my wrongful acts. Wrongful acts create obligations to remedy those wrongful acts.

CJ Walker became a millionairess in the 1890s. Nobody can point to slavery as an excuse for their failure to rise out of poverty in 2019.
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Again, simply false. The disparity in wealth between whites and blacks has its roots in slavery. Many people that are in poverty today would not be in poverty had their ancestors not been slaves.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well..doesn't thousands of americans dying on the battlefield to end slavery.. at the behest of the government.. qualify as a debt paid? How about the millions in money to fight the war? and slavery wasn't even a government institution.
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One of the great con jobs of American history was the ability to persuade poor whites who both competed with slave labor and who could never afford slave ownership, to defend the slavery institution mostly in the hands of the 1%er's with their lives in the name state's rights.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Do some reading. There's a ton of economic information comparing the immigrant labor of the north to the slave labor of the south. Why do you think there was very little slavery in the north? And not all slaves were black. Again, go out and learn. Native Americans and white people were enslaved, and I am not speaking of indentures. You can also put your emotions aside. Many peoples suffered raw deals throughout history. No one owes them reparations. The forced reparations by Germany to their Nazi victims was based on proof of a national policy of proved theft. Nothing was stolen from American slaves, who unless born here, were already enslaved. Nor was slavery a national policy. As permitted under Federal law, it was because it was institutionally entrenched before the formation of the country. Try honest intellectual examination as objectively as possible. Despite the realities, that the majority of people are on welfare and not all black citizens have received welfare, a case can be made that Federal welfare payments were the reparations you are demanding.

The US government is not obligated to pay the debts of private citizens. Slavery was established in America before the US government existed.

Try to make an effort to not see all writings literally, some are sarcastic. No one is seeking anything from long dead Arab and African slavers, nor the imperialistic English and Spanish.
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BS rambling gaslighting probably picked up at some racist blog.
 
ecofarm said:
BS rambling gaslighting probably picked up at some racist blog.
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I've had enough of your accusations. Another and I will make formal complaint to the moderators. Your insults are unacceptable.
 
ecofarm said:
You've got it backwards.

Black people have finally got their feet under them and have realized other groups who were disenfranchised have been compensated so as to mitigate their marginalization. When black people were disenfranchised, they were not in the same state of organization enjoyed by Native Americans. They didn't have leaders with clout to negotiate a resolution. They were swept under the rug without any compensation whatsoever.

Well, the time has come. As we did with Native Americans, actions should be taken to mitigate marginalization.
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Ok, it's settled, then. We'll let them build casinos.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Ok, it's settled, then. We'll let them build casinos.
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Give them millions of acres of land, have it subject only to federal jurisdiction and no taxes for anything happening on that land.

You don't think that's too much?
 
OldFatGuy said:
Do some reading. There's a ton of economic information comparing the immigrant labor of the north to the slave labor of the south. Why do you think there was very little slavery in the north? And not all slaves were black. Again, go out and learn. Native Americans and white people were enslaved, and I am not speaking of indentures. You can also put your emotions aside. Many peoples suffered raw deals throughout history. No one owes them reparations. The forced reparations by Germany to their Nazi victims was based on proof of a national policy of proved theft. Nothing was stolen from American slaves, who unless born here, were already enslaved. Nor was slavery a national policy. As permitted under Federal law, it was because it was institutionally entrenched before the formation of the country. Try honest intellectual examination as objectively as possible. Despite the realities, that the majority of people are on welfare and not all black citizens have received welfare, a case can be made that Federal welfare payments were the reparations you are demanding.

The US government is not obligated to pay the debts of private citizens. Slavery was established in America before the US government existed.

Try to make an effort to not see all writings literally, some are sarcastic. No one is seeking anything from long dead Arab and African slavers, nor the imperialistic English and Spanish.
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Why do you keep bringing up immigrant vs. slave labor in the north? Slavery was primarily concentrated in the south, and the fact it would have been more expensive to have slaves in the north doesn't mean it was more expensive to have slaves in the south. That defies common sense, because if it were true plantation owners wouldn't have kept using slaves. In the southern economy, slaves were simply cheaper. And again, this point is largely irrelevant because even if southern slaveowners made bad business decisions in buying slaves in stead of hiring workers, they still didn't pay slaves and the U.S. government still allowed it. The harm was caused regardless of whether it would have been cheaper to use free labor.

To your other points, the vast majority of slaves in the United States were black, which is why that has been the focus. Slavery was not just a raw deal or some bad business transaction. It was an atrocious act of violence. What was stolen from American slaves was their freedom. And by definition the value of slaves' labor is stolen from them as well. You have failed to provide a valid reason for refusing to remedy that theft.

And again, the U.S. government itself owes a debt because it allowed the practice of slavery within its borders. The Supreme Court of the United States in Dred Scott itself defined slaves as property. The debt is one owed directly by the U.S. government, not merely vis a vis private citizens. The fact that slavery was established before the U.S. federal government was created is irrelevant because it still existed under the U.S. government (a point already addressed).
 
ecofarm said:
Give them millions of acres of land, have it subject only to federal jurisdiction and no taxes for anything happening on that land?

You don't think that's too much?
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"Give them"? It was theirs to begin with.
 
This issue of reparations for former slaves (of whom NONE are alive today) or families of former slaves is :bs . Yeah, you read that right...I said :bs and here's why:

1) It's N-E-V-E-R going to happen. The White power base decided long ago since it gave the Black man his freedom AND civil rights, it doesn't need to give his ancestors reparations. Besides, since there are few records Black people can access directly to prove they were a true descendant of slaves, the odds of any Black person actually winning reparations today is 10000:1 and even then how do you tally the accrued cost?

2) Just mentioning the issue in public discourse is enough to spark divisiveness between the races let alone push the Black vote moreso toward one side of the political divide than the other.

I gave up on the mere thought of my people ever getting reparations from the U.S. government after I left high school. I realized waaaaay back then since we didn't get it during the Reconstruction era, it was never going to be happen...EVER! It's better that the Black man make his own money, buy his own land, build up his own economic security than to keep waiting for any of this to be given to him.
 
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Objective Voice said:
This issue of reparations for former slaves (of whom NONE are alive today) or families of former slaves is :bs . Yeah, you read that right...I said :bs and here's why:

1) It's N-E-V-E-R going to happen. The White power base decided long ago since it gave the Black man his freedom AND civil rights, it doesn't need to give his ancestors reparations.

2) Just mentioning the issue in public discourse is enough to spark divisiveness between the races let alone push the Black vote moreso toward one side of the political divide than the other.

I gave up on the mere thought of my people ever getting reparations from the U.S. government after I left high school. I realized waaaaay back then since we didn't get it during the Reconstruction era, it was never going to be given...EVER! It's better that the Black man make his own money, buy his own land, build up his own economic security than to keep waiting for any of this to be given to him.
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or it has more to do that in order to claim injury that a party must have been injured and the people that pay are the ones that did the injuring.
Since i have never owned or held someone in slavery i do not owe them anything or anyone else anything for that matter because of it.
 
ludin said:
or it has more to do that in order to claim injury that a party must have been injured and the people that pay are the ones that did the injuring.
Since i have never owned or held someone in slavery i do not owe them anything or anyone else anything for that matter because of it.
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Please, stop acting as if any such reparations would actually come out of your pocket even if it were ever to be paid. Most Black people realize that no White man today injured their Black slave ancestors. The U.S. government did by continuing to sanction the act of slavery when it could have abolished the practise: 1) right when the new nation was founded in 1775; and, 2) Twenty-five years after the U.S. Constitution was ratified. In both cases, the American government bulked. Hence, it took a civil war to end the :bs .

I ain't mad at 'cha. I'm just saying stop acting like the money would come directly out of your pocket.
 
Objective Voice said:
Please, stop acting as if any such reparations would actually come out of your pocket even if it were ever to be paid. Most Black people realize that no White man today injured their Black slave ancestors. The U.S. government did by continuing to sanction the act of slavery when it could have abolished the practise: 1) right when the new nation was founded in 1775; and, 2) Twenty-five years after the U.S. Constitution was ratified. In both cases, the American government bulked. Hence, it took a civil war to end the :bs .

I ain't mad at 'cha. I'm just saying stop acting like the money would come directly out of your pocket.
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they would come out of my pocket as the money would come from taxes which I PAY.
 
Lakryte said:
African Americans today who are descendants of slaves are worse off because of slavery. And again, your focus on "current" African Americans is irrelevant. If a company wrongly refuses to pay one of its workers, and that worker then dies, the estate (i.e. descendants) of that worker can still sue and recover those wages. The passage of time doesn't provide an excuse.
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Then it should be the Southern States that pay and why stop there? Native Americans deserve money... the Chinese, the Irish, etc. Why are the Portuguese and British not paying? They started the Slave Trade... and are black people going to have their taxes paying themselves back or do the get tax breaks that others will not get?
 
Napoleon said:
I’m still waiting for somebody to explain to me how it is that CJ Walker became the first self-made African American millionairess in the 1890s but blacks are poor in 2019 because slavery.
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Because people do not want to address the failure of modern black culture (in general). Absent fathers, gangs, not taking advantage of education, etc.
 
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