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Deficit-swelling Trump White House plans to use deficit against Democrats

jonny5 said:
I already paid for infrastructure in my income tax. No need for me to collect it again from my customers. Furthermore such a corporate tax wouldnt even put a dent in the deficit, and thus wouldnt not pay off a cent of the debt. If you took 100% of Apples profit, it would woulnt even pay for a week worth of just the deficit. What else ya got?
Click to expand...
Again I was talking about large Corporations that do NOT pay a cent in US income taxes on millions if not Billions in US profits.
They use the infrastructure to make their profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them and maintain them?
and I agree it wouldn't put a dent in the debt
We need a balanced budget amendment that has some real teeth to it and they have to make it that we can not spend more then we take in unless it was a deep recession / depression like the one we just got out of or in case of a war like WWII.
put on a 1% ( just a suggested amount )sales tax that would go just for paying off the debt and would be repealed when it is paid off.
and everybody would have to pay it and could not deduct it from their profits/ income
we all have benefited at some time from putting things on the debt so we all should help pay it off.
have a nice day
 
Going by his budget proposal....deficit spending is now the way things work.
 
The dollar became the currency of international trade originally out of the Bretton Woods conference in 1944 where the US dollar was attached to gold and all other currencies were pegged to the US dollar. When government spending caused confidence in the US dollar to decline and nations began to redeem their dollars for gold the United States abandon the gold standard. Through agreements with Saudia arabia and other OPEC countries teh dollar retained its role as the currency of international trade and consequently the world reserve currency. The agreements which I'm sure most of you are familar with was for oil to be sold in dollars. Everyone needed oil, so everyone needed dollars, and the easiest way to get dollars is to price your exports in dollars as was primarily the case even back then.

How does this relate to the debt? The world economcy grows on average of 3.5% a year. There are more goods and services produced and sold as well as more people, and also nations who want to increase their reserves. You have an ever increasing demand for dollars globally, but also domestically. How do you increase the amount of dollars in the market to satisfy demand? The US government borrows about a quarter of its annual budget from the federal reserve. The budget is spent and this new money along with the old money is spent into the economy and filters into the national and international systems.

Not only is deficit spending not a bad thing, but it is required. The US can borrow in perpetuity, which isn't to say it can limitlessly borrow at one time without economic consequences but we could probably borrow more than the 800 billion to a trillion per year we do presently. The debt is used as a pretext to cut social spending. Those who direct policy and select what candidates you can vote for ahve no interest in social spending because they don't need it.

Orioncs.net
 
Tbird19482 said:
Again I was talking about large Corporations that do NOT pay a cent in US income taxes on millions if not Billions in US profits.
They use the infrastructure to make their profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them and maintain them?
and I agree it wouldn't put a dent in the debt
We need a balanced budget amendment that has some real teeth to it and they have to make it that we can not spend more then we take in unless it was a deep recession / depression like the one we just got out of or in case of a war like WWII.
put on a 1% ( just a suggested amount )sales tax that would go just for paying off the debt and would be repealed when it is paid off.
and everybody would have to pay it and could not deduct it from their profits/ income
we all have benefited at some time from putting things on the debt so we all should help pay it off.
have a nice day
Click to expand...

And again, I was talking about how there is no need for corporations to pay taxes, because the people who own them, work there, and buy their products already pay taxes. Well, some of us do.
 
jonny5 said:
And again, I was talking about how there is no need for corporations to pay taxes, because the people who own them, work there, and buy their products already pay taxes. Well, some of us do.
Click to expand...
Well the Congress passed a law making Corporations entities with the same rights as people so being an entity they should pay Income taxes like some people do
I am retired and SS and I pay income taxes and I don't know about you but I don't like paying more in US income taxes then Large corporations that are making millions if not Billions in US profits do
they use the infrastructure that those taxes pay for to make those profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them?
and again why then are there some corporations paying income taxes and others don't ,
because of the tax laws
in 2017 42% of all US corporations making over a million dollars in US profits , some making Billions in US profits did not pay a cent in US income taxes and according to the GAO that percent is going to go up , they estimate it will go up to about 65%
so hard working middle class people will be carrying the load for them to use the infrastructure ( Roads and bridges and other things ) to make their profits for free.
They use it and their heavy trucks can do a lot of damage to them so why shouldn't they help pay for them and maintain them?
have a nice day
 
Tbird19482 said:
Well the Congress passed a law making Corporations entities with the same rights as people so being an entity they should pay Income taxes like some people do
I am retired and SS and I pay income taxes and I don't know about you but I don't like paying more in US income taxes then Large corporations that are making millions if not Billions in US profits do
they use the infrastructure that those taxes pay for to make those profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them?
and again why then are there some corporations paying income taxes and others don't ,
because of the tax laws
in 2017 42% of all US corporations making over a million dollars in US profits , some making Billions in US profits did not pay a cent in US income taxes and according to the GAO that percent is going to go up , they estimate it will go up to about 65%
so hard working middle class people will be carrying the load for them to use the infrastructure ( Roads and bridges and other things ) to make their profits for free.
They use it and their heavy trucks can do a lot of damage to them so why shouldn't they help pay for them and maintain them?
have a nice day
Click to expand...

Don't know about you but I am getting tired of the left wing lies that you spout in every post, there is no way you pay more in FIT than corporations but you do pay a lot more than the approximately 50% of income earners who PAY ZERO and therein lies the problem not corporations that are good corporate citizens paying state and local taxes as well as wages and benefits to the employees in those communities. You are truly amazingly poorly informed for someone who claims to be retired.

the answer to the budget problem is cutting spending and not increasing taxes on the rich and corporations but if you truly want more money get it from the people who are earning income and NOT paying any Federal Income taxes. Like most leftists you totally ignore what FIT funds and tie everything to social programs which is over reach on the part of the federal bureaucrats all designed to buy votes and create career politicians.

Here are the line items that the Federal Income taxes fund so tell me why the top 1% should be paying 40% of the costs of these programs and 50% paying nothing?

FIT=Federal Income Taxes

FICA=Payroll Taxes

Excise taxes=gasoline taxes and other auto fees.

Please learn the taxes you pay and their purpose


National defense-FIT
International affairs-FIT
General science, space, and technology-FIT
Energy-FIT
Natural resources and environment-FIT
Agriculture-FIT
Commerce and housing credit-FIT
Transportation-EXCISE
Community and regional development-FIT
Education, training, employment and social services-FIT
Health-FIT
Medicare-FICA
Income security-FIT
Social security-FICA
Veterans benefits and services-FIT
Administration of justice-FIT
General Government-FIT
Net interest-FIT
Click to expand...
 
Tbird19482 said:
Well the Congress passed a law making Corporations entities with the same rights as people so being an entity they should pay Income taxes like some people do
I am retired and SS and I pay income taxes and I don't know about you but I don't like paying more in US income taxes then Large corporations that are making millions if not Billions in US profits do
they use the infrastructure that those taxes pay for to make those profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them?
and again why then are there some corporations paying income taxes and others don't ,
because of the tax laws
in 2017 42% of all US corporations making over a million dollars in US profits , some making Billions in US profits did not pay a cent in US income taxes and according to the GAO that percent is going to go up , they estimate it will go up to about 65%
so hard working middle class people will be carrying the load for them to use the infrastructure ( Roads and bridges and other things ) to make their profits for free.
They use it and their heavy trucks can do a lot of damage to them so why shouldn't they help pay for them and maintain them?
have a nice day
Click to expand...

Corporations having legal rights for convenience has nothing to do with paying income taxes. And again, you are already paying taxes. So are the people who own businesses. You and they have already paid for 'infrastructure'. Why should you/they pay again? What sense does it make for ME to pay taxes for the military, AND THEN pay taxes again for the military from my businesses profit? Which I think take home as income and pay taxes again.

Obviously you just want more money, and you just want it to come from whoever has more of it.
 
jonny5 said:
Why dont we just be fair and blame everyone? The people who elect them, the democrats and republicans who keep increasing spending and doing nothing about of control social programs. Obama, Trump, congressional Dems and Reps ALL are responsible for writing and signing ever larger spending bills, and 22 trillion in debt.

And blaming doesnt reduce the debt in any case, so who cares? What are we going to do about it?
Click to expand...
We've had this conversation endlessly. I'll outline the major points:

A) If it was Obama's "fault" what did he enact to increase the debt?
B) The Great Recession reduced revenue.
C) The tax policy passed by Bush was in effect, which reduced revenue from previous periods.
D) During a recession the debt isn't -- or shouldn't be the prime concern, getting people back to work and reversing the decline should be. Deficit spending is what economists say is a good idea in these situations.
E) What should Obama have done facing this added debt? Raise taxes and/or cut spending, just when Americans needed their government the most?

In any case, Republicans have proven themselves to be hypocrites on this issue. They were deficit hawks when Obama, in the middle of a recession, was in power. But when Trump took over, the first thing they did was pass a massive deficit ballooning tax-cut, without a thought or word about debt.
 
Conservative said:
Don't know about you but I am getting tired of the left wing lies that you spout in every post, there is no way you pay more in FIT than corporations but you do pay a lot more than the approximately 50% of income earners who PAY ZERO and therein lies the problem not corporations that are good corporate citizens paying state and local taxes as well as wages and benefits to the employees in those communities. You are truly amazingly poorly informed for someone who claims to be retired.

the answer to the budget problem is cutting spending and not increasing taxes on the rich and corporations but if you truly want more money get it from the people who are earning income and NOT paying any Federal Income taxes. Like most leftists you totally ignore what FIT funds and tie everything to social programs which is over reach on the part of the federal bureaucrats all designed to buy votes and create career politicians.

Here are the line items that the Federal Income taxes fund so tell me why the top 1% should be paying 40% of the costs of these programs and 50% paying nothing?

FIT=Federal Income Taxes

FICA=Payroll Taxes

Excise taxes=gasoline taxes and other auto fees.

Please learn the taxes you pay and their purpose
Click to expand...
well maybe IF you would do some research into the subject you would find out it is not a left wing lie
Here read some of the articles the GAO has posted

GAO rep - Google Search

U.S. GAO - Corporate Income Tax: Most Large Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Tax but Effective Tax Rates Differed Significantly from the Statutory Rate

Among large corporations (generally those with at least $10 million in assets) less than half—42.3 percent—paid no federal income tax in 2012. Of those large corporations whose financial statements reported a profit, 19.5 percent paid no federal income tax that year.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/680/675844.pdf

So you would tax the people that are just getting by or aren't making enough money to live on, some of those people work two jobs and their spouse works too and let large Corporations not pay any.
again do some research into a subject before posting
it will help you to not keep making a fool of yourself
Have a nice afternoon
 
Conservative said:
Don't know about you but I am getting tired of the left wing lies that you spout in every post, there is no way you pay more in FIT than corporations but you do pay a lot more than the approximately 50% of income earners who PAY ZERO and therein lies the problem not corporations that are good corporate citizens paying state and local taxes as well as wages and benefits to the employees in those communities. You are truly amazingly poorly informed for someone who claims to be retired.

the answer to the budget problem is cutting spending and not increasing taxes on the rich and corporations but if you truly want more money get it from the people who are earning income and NOT paying any Federal Income taxes. Like most leftists you totally ignore what FIT funds and tie everything to social programs which is over reach on the part of the federal bureaucrats all designed to buy votes and create career politicians.

Here are the line items that the Federal Income taxes fund so tell me why the top 1% should be paying 40% of the costs of these programs and 50% paying nothing?

FIT=Federal Income Taxes

FICA=Payroll Taxes

Excise taxes=gasoline taxes and other auto fees.

Please learn the taxes you pay and their purpose
Click to expand...
looks like YOU need to find out what INCOME TAXES are
FICA is not an income tax it is paid by the worker on their wages and by the Company on their earnings and it goes to into the SS fund to be paid out in benefits to people that worked the required amount of time and paid into it
Gas taxes and auto fees are not income taxes
Yes they are used to help fund roads and repairs to the roads but FIT is also used too.
and again according to the GAO over 42% of all large Corporations do not pay a cent in US income taxes
have a nice day
 
jonny5 said:
Corporations having legal rights for convenience has nothing to do with paying income taxes. And again, you are already paying taxes. So are the people who own businesses. You and they have already paid for 'infrastructure'. Why should you/they pay again? What sense does it make for ME to pay taxes for the military, AND THEN pay taxes again for the military from my businesses profit? Which I think take home as income and pay taxes again.

Obviously you just want more money, and you just want it to come from whoever has more of it.
Click to expand...
as I have said before we need to cut spending and the only way I see we can make our Representatives in Congress do that is pass a very strict balanced budget amendment and seeing we have mandatory programs that need to be funded , fund them first and anything left over would be split up among the rest
make it very strict and have some real teeth to it and it could only be broken if we went to war like WWII or a deep recession/ depression like the one we just got out of
and a National sales tax of like I said 1 or 2 percent used strictly for reducing the debt and nothing else and would be automatically repealed when the debt is paid off
the debt would be reduced and the money we pay now on the interest on this debt could be used to help fund the non mandatory programs
have a nice afternoon
 
Tbird19482 said:
looks like YOU need to find out what INCOME TAXES are
FICA is not an income tax it is paid by the worker on their wages and by the Company on their earnings and it goes to into the SS fund to be paid out in benefits to people that worked the required amount of time and paid into it
Gas taxes and auto fees are not income taxes
Yes they are used to help fund roads and repairs to the roads but FIT is also used too.
and again according to the GAO over 42% of all large Corporations do not pay a cent in US income taxes
have a nice day
Click to expand...


Looks like reading comprehension is something you need help with. I posted the line items of the budget and what taxes fund those line items. I understand completely what Income taxes are and know that approximately 50% of income earners don't pay any Federal Income taxes yet you want to tax the rich and corporations more.

Why aren't you complaining about the 50% of income earners not paying any Federal Income Taxes? Instead of having a nice day maybe you need to go back to classes
 
Tbird19482 said:
as I have said before we need to cut spending and the only way I see we can make our Representatives in Congress do that is pass a very strict balanced budget amendment and seeing we have mandatory programs that need to be funded , fund them first and anything left over would be split up among the rest
make it very strict and have some real teeth to it and it could only be broken if we went to war like WWII or a deep recession/ depression like the one we just got out of
and a National sales tax of like I said 1 or 2 percent used strictly for reducing the debt and nothing else and would be automatically repealed when the debt is paid off
the debt would be reduced and the money we pay now on the interest on this debt could be used to help fund the non mandatory programs
have a nice afternoon
Click to expand...
I typically agree with you but a balanced budget amendment is universally accepted by economists to be a bad idea. There is no reason to hamstring the country to always have a balanced budget. When interest rates are low, like now, it's an ideal time to run deficits to rebuild infrastructure.
 
Tbird19482 said:
Again I was talking about large Corporations that do NOT pay a cent in US income taxes on millions if not Billions in US profits.
They use the infrastructure to make their profits so why shouldn't they help pay for them and maintain them?
and I agree it wouldn't put a dent in the debt
We need a balanced budget amendment that has some real teeth to it and they have to make it that we can not spend more then we take in unless it was a deep recession / depression like the one we just got out of or in case of a war like WWII.
put on a 1% ( just a suggested amount )sales tax that would go just for paying off the debt and would be repealed when it is paid off.
and everybody would have to pay it and could not deduct it from their profits/ income
we all have benefited at some time from putting things on the debt so we all should help pay it off.
have a nice day
Click to expand...

Two things come to mind.
1)- Every tax on business shows up on a price tag somewhere.
2)- It's very unlikely a government will give up a source of revenue. I don't say it's never happened, just that it'd be resisted.
 
Grand Mal said:
Two things come to mind.
1)- Every tax on business shows up on a price tag somewhere.
2)- It's very unlikely a government will give up a source of revenue. I don't say it's never happened, just that it'd be resisted.
Click to expand...

That is the issue exactly, corporations don't pay Income taxes, their consumers do in the price of the products they purchase
 
Conservative said:
That is the issue exactly, corporations don't pay Income taxes, their consumers do in the price of the products they purchase
Click to expand...

Corporate income taxes have been cut substantially. Yet for some reason, there hasn't been a reactionary decrease in product/service prices. I don't have to wonder why.
 
Kushinator said:
Corporate income taxes have been cut substantially. Yet for some reason, there hasn't been a reactionary decrease in product/service prices. I don't have to wonder why.
Click to expand...

Same reason that when the price-per-barrel goes down gas stations have to sell their tanks empty before the price-at-the-pump follows, but when the price-per-barrel goes up it goes up at the pumps right away.
 
Grand Mal said:
Same reason that when the price-per-barrel goes down gas stations have to sell their tanks empty before the price-at-the-pump follows, but when the price-per-barrel goes up it goes up at the pumps right away.
Click to expand...

Cost-plus-pricing is an unusually dominant force in market oriented economies.
 
Grand Mal said:
Same reason that when the price-per-barrel goes down gas stations have to sell their tanks empty before the price-at-the-pump follows, but when the price-per-barrel goes up it goes up at the pumps right away.
Click to expand...

Exactly as station owners own their gasoline and the gas in the tanks at a higher price requires that the product be sold to recoup their cost before purchasing gasoline at a lower cost. Seems that far too many don't understand business at all or how private sector works as never have these people had their own money invested in anything thus they have no idea how to recover costs

These forums truly are a waste of time as no one changes their mind and no one admits when wrong or considers the possibility of being wrong. All the radical left sees is dollars not getting to the federal gov't and always want more to fund their liberal spending appetite. They never see the state and local responsibilities nor what corporations do in the state and local communities or with charities. Everything in their world comes from the federal bureaucrats. Corporations hire people who pay taxes, corporations pay state and local property taxes as do their employees but that isn't good enough for the left, most of whom have obviously never even met a taxpayer or felt their true pain and responsibility.
 
Tbird19482 said:
as I have said before we need to cut spending and the only way I see we can make our Representatives in Congress do that is pass a very strict balanced budget amendment and seeing we have mandatory programs that need to be funded , fund them first and anything left over would be split up among the rest
make it very strict and have some real teeth to it and it could only be broken if we went to war like WWII or a deep recession/ depression like the one we just got out of
and a National sales tax of like I said 1 or 2 percent used strictly for reducing the debt and nothing else and would be automatically repealed when the debt is paid off
the debt would be reduced and the money we pay now on the interest on this debt could be used to help fund the non mandatory programs
have a nice afternoon
Click to expand...

I can support any cuts you put forward. But we pay enough taxes. No need for a new 1 to 2 percent.
 
MTAtech said:
I typically agree with you but a balanced budget amendment is universally accepted by economists to be a bad idea. There is no reason to hamstring the country to always have a balanced budget. When interest rates are low, like now, it's an ideal time to run deficits to rebuild infrastructure.
Click to expand...

The reason is because the people and their reps cant be trusted to be financially prudent. Which is why we have 22 trillion in debt, and only getting worse. Ask those economists if what were doing is better.
 
jonny5 said:
The reason is because the people and their reps cant be trusted to be financially prudent. Which is why we have 22 trillion in debt, and only getting worse. Ask those economists if what were doing is better.
Click to expand...
A $22 trillion debt, in of itself, is meaningless. What's significant is what that money was borrowed to achieve. It would be one thing if the nation borrowed the money for investments in infrastructure, such as bridges, roads, tunnels or fast internet access for rural America. It's quite another to borrow money to give tax-cuts to rich people.

From a macroeconomic perspective, budgets don't have to be balanced, just have deficits smaller than economic growth.
 
MTAtech said:
A $22 trillion debt, in of itself, is meaningless. What's significant is what that money was borrowed to achieve. It would be one thing if the nation borrowed the money for investments in infrastructure, such as bridges, roads, tunnels or fast internet access for rural America. It's quite another to borrow money to give tax-cuts to rich people.

From a macroeconomic perspective, budgets don't have to be balanced, just have deficits smaller than economic growth.
Click to expand...

LOL, borrowing money to allow people to keep more of theirs? Where in the hell did you get your education? Same tired old leftwing rhetoric as the federal gov't's roles are distorted again as usual by radicals who think that the states are going to allow their citizens to die because some federal bureaucrat doesn't spend enough money in the name of compassion.

Always promoting higher taxes on those evil rich people, aren't you? Think the rich are going to be able to fund your spending appetite? What about the approximately 50% of income earners how pay ZERO in federal income taxes? Why are you supporting this reality?
 
MTAtech said:
A $22 trillion debt, in of itself, is meaningless. What's significant is what that money was borrowed to achieve. It would be one thing if the nation borrowed the money for investments in infrastructure, such as bridges, roads, tunnels or fast internet access for rural America. It's quite another to borrow money to give tax-cuts to rich people.

From a macroeconomic perspective, budgets don't have to be balanced, just have deficits smaller than economic growth.
Click to expand...

You can not borrow money to spend on not taking money from people. Thats ridiculous. Weve borrowed trillions and trillions, mostly on handing out money to slackers. And it achieved nothing. People are still poor. Healthcare is still expensive.
 
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