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If we tax people for reparations, how will the democrats be able to afford it?

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Virgil Jones

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It seems a godawful mess. I don't think the party of the poor could ever pay its dues. What do you think?
 
Virgil Jones said:
It seems a godawful mess. I don't think the party of the poor could ever pay its dues. What do you think?
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The only way that I would support reparations is if each individual could prove that an ancestor was a slave and that their ancestor being a slave has directly impacted their current lifestyle. No one alive today has experienced slavery or perpetrated the slavery of the old days. There are plenty of rich and middle class black folks that managed to bring themselves up from poverty. Every single one of them worked their asses off to do it, and they have proven that it can be done and the "evil white man is not able to stop them from doing so".
 
Kal'Stang said:
The only way that I would support reparations is if each individual could prove that an ancestor was a slave and that their ancestor being a slave has directly impacted their current lifestyle. No one alive today has experienced slavery or perpetrated the slavery of the old days. There are plenty of rich and middle class black folks that managed to bring themselves up from poverty. Every single one of them worked their asses off to do it, and they have proven that it can be done and the "evil white man is not able to stop them from doing so".
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I think Dr Walter Williams wrote an article where he talked about his ancestors and said "thank God" someone brought some of his ancestors to the USA where he now was a prominent academic. He noted that those still in Africa, from where he came from, were in awful shape. certainly not a justification for perhaps the most pernicious stain in our Country's history, but the fact remains, almost every black in the USA is better off than those living in many parts of Africa
 
It's a juicy topic for candidates to push but it will never happen.
What does need to happen however, is FULL restoration of the Voting Rights Act.
There's much more, but that is where to start.

Reparations is a pipe dream. Social justice and continued support for remedial legislation aimed at correcting historic political injustice on the other hand, is upon us and it will be restored.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
It's a juicy topic for candidates to push but it will never happen.
What does need to happen however, is FULL restoration of the Voting Rights Act.
There's much more, but that is where to start.

Reparations is a pipe dream. Social justice and continued support for remedial legislation aimed at correcting historic political injustice on the other hand, is upon us and it will be restored.
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Full restoration of the voting rights act? Everyone has the same Right to Vote.
 
Reparations cannot be merely cash because that does not always translate into social power. What we want, as a society seeking justice, is proportional power representation. That is achieved by helping those previously disenfranchised to get a leg up, but cash alone cannot achieve that goal. Thus, we have Affirmative Action. Educational and employment opportunities are another means of achieving a socially just power distribution (that being, proportional).

We need to talk education, jobs, housing, justice system. Cash is flash in the pan. We need social infrastructure, social and human capital in the form of everything that constitutes power. Cash doesn't fix all that.
 
ecofarm said:
Reparations cannot be merely cash because that does not always translate into social power. What we want, as a society seeking justice, is proportional power representation. That is achieved by helping those previously disenfranchised to get a leg up, but cash alone cannot achieve that goal. Thus, we have Affirmative Action. Educational and employment opportunities are another means of achieving a socially just power distribution (that being, proportional).

We need to talk education, jobs, housing, justice system. Cash is flash in the pan. We need social infrastructure, social and human capital in the form of everything that constitutes power. Cash doesn't fix all that.
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How about this, ecofarm:

There were many black families who were provably denied benefits that were open to White Americans. Most notably and infamously, the GI Bill. I think any black American who can show they had a grandfather or grandmother (or great-grandfather/great grandmother) who served during World War II and would have qualified for the GI Bill but was denied being able to exercise their ability to access those benefits should be granted those same benefits for purposes of college enrollment. That way, the descendants of African American World War II veterans will essentially inherit their grandfather's GI Bill Benefits in full. So long as they meet all other qualifications, I think that is one of the best routes forward. I would call it the G.I. Inheritance Bill.
 
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Felis Leo said:
How about this:

There were many black families who were provably denied benefits that were open to White Americans. Most notably, the GI Bill. I think any black American who can show they had a grandfather or grandmother (or great-grandfather/great grandmother) who served during World War II and would have qualified for the GI Bill but was denied should be granted those same benefits for purposes of college enrollment, they will essentially inherit their grandfather's GI Bill Benefits in full. So long as they meet all other qualifications, I think that is one of the best routes forward. I would call it the G.I. Inheritance Bill.
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I think that's a reasonable step towards achieving proportional power representation. We needn't be random about social justice, we just need to see unfairness in the past and even the present has adversely affected minorities and proportional representation is natural and best for society.

I'm sure you agree that minorities are not lacking proportional power representation as a result of inferiority.

I'm not saying equal outcome for individuals, but equal outcome for groups makes sense. If we don't have equal outcome for groups, then something is not right with society because we know groups are of equivalent fundamental capability. Now, individual outcomes... that could be anything and members of every group will find the bottom and top of society.
 
Felis Leo said:
How about this, ecofarm:

There were many black families who were provably denied benefits that were open to White Americans. Most notably and infamously, the GI Bill. I think any black American who can show they had a grandfather or grandmother (or great-grandfather/great grandmother) who served during World War II and would have qualified for the GI Bill but was denied being able to exercise their ability to access those benefits should be granted those same benefits for purposes of college enrollment. That way, the descendants of African American World War II veterans will essentially inherit their grandfather's GI Bill Benefits in full. So long as they meet all other qualifications, I think that is one of the best routes forward. I would call it the G.I. Inheritance Bill.
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Hey, that's just righting some wrongs for specific groups and there's nothing wrong with that at all, any liberal or conservative could feel proud to back that.

Here's another, restitution for all the descendants of the Tulsa Race Riots of 1921, in which 10,000 black people were left homeless, and property damage amounted to more than $1.5 million in real estate and $750,000 in personal property (equal to apprx. $32 million in 2019).

Reparations were already studied and there was some support for approval. Scholarships were set up and a park was dedicated. It is only right that the last step in restitution be taken for these descendant families.

It's reparations, or it's closure. Whatever you want to call it, it's NOT "TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS", it's a hat tip and acknowledgment of duty and responsibility and repayment for things taken away.
 
ecofarm said:
I think that's a reasonable step towards achieving proportional power representation. We needn't be random about social justice, we just need to see unfairness in the past and even the present has adversely affected minorities and proportional representation is natural and best for society.

I'm sure you agree that minorities are not lacking proportional power representation as a result of inferiority.
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Certainly not. Black people are by no means inherently inferior to anyone else. They have simply been the group most consistently and unjustly treated during our history.

ecofarm said:
I'm not saying equal outcome for individuals, but equal outcome for groups makes sense. If we don't have equal outcome for groups, then something is not right with society because we know groups are of equivalent fundamental capability. Now, individual outcomes... that could be anything and members of every group will find the bottom and top of society.
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I agree. From the beginning, on an individual level, the Federal, State and Local governments of the United States colluded and connived to push black Americans out of the halls of power. Through personal sacrifice, hard work, grit and determination, many black Americans still managed to climb the rungs of economic success. However, they were not given much in the way of helping hands, certainly not from the government. Indeed, many of the welfare benefits that were provided to black families started containing perverse incentives which helped erode the key means of individual economic success and the growth of intergenerational wealth: the united two-parent nuclear family.

It is by no means a coincidence that black Americans are at the utter nadir of earning power and wealth accumulation within the United States compared to other ethnic groups, when only 38% of black children grow up in two-parent homes. The economic, emotional and psychological pressure put on single parents which is in turn placed on children is exponentially greater than those put on two-parent families. That is not to say that two-parent households are all sunshine and rainbows. Just that they are better able to weather the storms, make financial plans and accumulate wealth far better than a single parent household can. Presently, one of the best indicators for determining whether a child will be damned to a life of intergenerational poverty is the single-parent household.

So, in my extremely conservative opinion, the only way to ameliorate long-term poverty, indignity and immiseration of black communities and to make sure that black Americans of the future are able to walk down the road to success un-hobbled starts with two core pillars. The first: access to higher education, through a massive education initiative like the one I previously suggested. The second, and even more important: creating an incentive structure aimed at reconstituting and encouraging the creation of two-parent households within black communities. This is a generational issue, keep in mind. And it cannot simply be through government incentives or flashing cash at people hoping they get married. But if it is tackled in a social manner, and if a sizable majority of black families were once again headed by two parents, I think we would see a proportional increase in wealth accumulation in the black community and a commensurate drop in crime and poverty. That is my two cents.
 
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Felis Leo said:
Certainly not. Black people are by no means inherently inferior to anyone else. They have simply been the group most consistently and unjustly treated during our history.



I agree. From the beginning, on an individual level, the Federal, State and Local governments of the United States colluded and connived to push black Americans out of the halls of power. Through personal sacrifice, hard work, grit and determination, many black Americans still managed to climb the rungs of economic success. However, they were not given much in the way of helping hands, certainly not from the government. Indeed, many of the welfare benefits that were provided to black families started containing perverse incentives which helped erode the key means of individual economic success and the growth of intergenerational wealth: the united two-parent nuclear family.

It is by no means a coincidence that black Americans are at the utter nadir of earning power and wealth accumulation within the United States compared to other ethnic groups, when only 38% of black children grow up in two-parent homes. The economic, emotional and psychological pressure put on single parents which is in turn placed on children is exponentially greater than those put on two-parent families. That is not to say that two-parent households are all sunshine and rainbows. Just that they are better able to weather the storms, make financial plans and accumulate wealth far better than a single parent household can. Presently, one of the best indicators for determining whether a child will be damned to a life of intergenerational poverty is the single-parent household.

So, in my extremely conservative opinion, the only way to ameliorate long-term poverty, indignity and immiseration of black communities and to make sure that black Americans of the future are able to walk down the road to success un-hobbled starts with two core pillars. The first: access to higher education, through a massive education initiative like the one I previously suggested. The second, and even more important: creating an incentive structure aimed at reconstituting and encouraging the creation of two-parent households within black communities. This is a generational issue, keep in mind. And it cannot simply be through government incentives or flashing cash at people hoping they get married. But if it is tackled in a social manner, and if a sizable majority of black families were once again headed by two parents, I think we would see a proportional increase in wealth accumulation in the black community and a commensurate drop in crime and poverty. That is my two cents.
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I'd add that intergenerational wealth is a factor in power representation. White grandparents went to college, provided accompanying guidance and contacts and provided inheritance. Every white person? No, but many. All black grandparents (of applicable generation) were stripped of material and social possessions.

That factors into the rate of single parent homes. It's easier to stay married when family money greases egos.

What about the justice system? Black men are more often sentenced, and are sentenced for longer, for the same crime same circumstance same record. It's hard to keep a family together with a parent in jail.

If we look to the causes of single parent homes, they are all rooted in poverty. Poverty that has been historically and is, as a matter of ramifications and lingering racism, presently imposed.

It's not about black. It's not about black culture. It's about poverty and how that, in a high population density environment (rural is often somewhat different as a result of pop density as well as other factors) results in single family homes.

Once again, not for you but some others out there, "black culture" is not the problem.
 
Felis Leo said:
So, in my extremely conservative opinion, the only way to ameliorate long-term poverty, indignity and immiseration of black communities and to make sure that black Americans of the future are able to walk down the road to success un-hobbled starts with two core pillars. The first: access to higher education, through a massive education initiative like the one I previously suggested. The second, and even more important: creating an incentive structure aimed at reconstituting and encouraging the creation of two-parent households within black communities. This is a generational issue, keep in mind. And it cannot simply be through government incentives or flashing cash at people hoping they get married. But if it is tackled in a social manner, and if a sizable majority of black families were once again headed by two parents, I think we would see a proportional increase in wealth accumulation in the black community and a commensurate drop in crime and poverty. That is my two cents.
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Well said, but at this point we need to think about making that universal. We do not need to punish non-typical families but we need to protect the nuclear family models as well, in all communities, and access to higher education needs to be made available to all.
If you want to start by fixing it in the disadvantaged black communities first, that's fine, but it needs to continue spreading out from there.

No person working hard at their full time job should be unable to get by. They may not have the quality of life they want if it's a job at the bottom, but they should be able to get by, and access to higher education is key to the kind of upward mobility that creates a "churn" at the bottom and which moves deserving individuals up and away.
 
ecofarm said:
I think that's a reasonable step towards achieving proportional power representation. We needn't be random about social justice, we just need to see unfairness in the past and even the present has adversely affected minorities and proportional representation is natural and best for society.

I'm sure you agree that minorities are not lacking proportional power representation as a result of inferiority.

I'm not saying equal outcome for individuals, but equal outcome for groups makes sense. If we don't have equal outcome for groups, then something is not right with society because we know groups are of equivalent fundamental capability. Now, individual outcomes... that could be anything and members of every group will find the bottom and top of society.
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See? Does everybody see this?
This is proof that people on the Left DO NOT EXPECT equal outcomes from or for individuals, contrary to the insistence of the Right.
I wholeheartedly agree with this and have also said that no matter what we do, despite our best efforts, there is always an underclass, but what we need to be able to do is extend every assurance to every group that equal opportunities are available, and those opportunities need to be decent ones, a SQUARE DEAL.

No man (or woman) who works hard, even if it is at the bottom of the wage scale, should be forced to live in a car, or forego food, basic health care or the chance at higher education if they can get something out of it. If any and all of these things represent opportunities for these people to better themselves and lift themselves out of poverty, then they should be made available.
A SQUARE DEAL...a NEW DEAL.

We are investing in ourselves, in our society, in our future.
If we forego that investment, investment is made anyway without us, investment in rot, in crime, in drug addiction, in gangs, in every social ill imaginable. It would behoove us to be honest with ourselves about our responsibilities for the consequences should we choose to ignore the chance at investing in our communities.
It would behoove us to recognize our duty as a society and admit that we are required to invest wisely if we wish to avoid negative consequences.
 
Don't we already pay "reparations"? It's called the social safety net.
 
Waddy said:
Don't we already pay "reparations"? It's called the social safety net.
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If anybody who ever got welfare at any time since slavery stopped they should have to pay it back out of those reparations
Why should we pay reparations to somebody that we have already supported and some of the families that want these " reparations " have been on welfare for years.
besides why should families that came here after the Civil war have to pay for something that happened here years before
I see no way that Reparations could be paid for on a fair basis.
Have a nice afternoon
 
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