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[W:61]Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Rosenstein was out of line. He should have discussed the 25th amendment with either the President or Vice President because the 25th amendment cannot be invoked without one or both of those men being involved.
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Out of line?

Not really, but that is arguable.

He was under no compunction to discuss what he discussed with either the president or the vice president.

He was not invoking the 25th Amendment, he was merely discussing said Amendment, which is not, NOT, a treasonous act.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

Just admit you were wrong to call it treason, what Rosenstein did.

Just admit you were wrong about Benedict Arnold's treason.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

LouC said:
Out of line?

Not really, but that is arguable.

He was under no compunction to discuss what he discussed with either the president or the vice president.

He was not invoking the 25th Amendment, he was merely discussing said Amendment, which is not, NOT, a treasonous act.
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Rosenstein was discussing how to sneak up on Trump with a secret wire and try to trap him so that he might get something to use to bring him down using the 25th amendment. Trump's Hillary-loving enemies in the Justice Department were scheming to bring Trump down one way or another. However, I doubt Rosenstein had any idea ahead of time how he intended to approach either the President or the Vice President with his secret wiretap info to try to persuade one of them to go along with his 25th amendment plot, and if neither of the two American leaders got on board with his scheme then it was toast.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Just because democrats like Obama's declarations of emergencies to help foreign nations is no reason for them to hate Trump's declaration of emergency to help Americans.
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The thing is that Trumps declaration does not help Americans.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
If Congress does not like Trump's emergency then they can overrule Him, but they won't because they do not have the muscle to do it. Democrats are therefore turning to the court to stop Trump, which is not the way the government was ever set up originally. Democrats have developed a new strategy. When they do not have enough votes in Congress to push their progressive agenda through or to try to stop the President when they do not like what he is doing, they turn to their leftist judges to try to force their will on the people through imperialistic judicial edict. That is how brutal regimes get things done - not by just law but by unjust force.

Democrats are right. God Bless America is being transformed by democrat barbarians into "Goddamn America" by judicial decree apart from the legislative process.
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Thanks for the rapid hyper partisan crap, but I do not really need it.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

Common Sense 1 said:
Declaration of National Emergency by Reason Of Certain Terrorist Attacks
By the President of the United States of America
A Proclamation

A national emergency exists by reason of the terrorist attacks at the World Trade Center, New York, New York, and the Pentagon, and the continuing and immediate threat of further attacks on the United States.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, I hereby declare that the national emergency has existed since September 11, 2001, and, pursuant to the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), I intend to utilize the following statutes: sections 123, 123a, 527, 2201(c), 12006, and 12302 of title 10, United States Code, and sections 331, 359, and 367 of title 14, United States Code.

This proclamation immediately shall be published in the Federal Register or disseminated through the Emergency Federal Register, and transmitted to the Congress.

This proclamation is not intended to create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by a party against the United States, its agencies, its officers, or any person.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fourteenth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand one, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-sixth.

GEORGE W. BUSH
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a terrorist attack that had already occurred, is a national emergency....a wall that he already declared didn't need to be done, is not a national emergency.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

FreedomFromAll said:
The thing is that Trumps declaration does not help Americans.
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Actually they do help all Americans, even those Americans seeking to undermine our national security and shut down our government in order to take Trump and the republican administration down for purely partisan reasons.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Actually they do help all Americans, even those Americans seeking to undermine our national security and shut down our government in order to take Trump and the republican administration down for purely partisan reasons.
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you are so full of.....that your eyes are now brown.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

ClaraD said:
you are so full of.....that your eyes are now brown.
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My eyes were brown to begin with. I think I may be 1/1000th black. Pocohontas Warren has nothing to advantage her minority status over mine.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

Slyfox696 said:
To everyone:

This post is a flat out lie. Here is the actual wording of Obama's declaration. You'll notice there is NO language talking about caravans or immigrants. Obama's declaration had to do with influenza.

Two sources for same declaration:

Declaration of a National Emergency with Respect to the 2009 H1N1 Influenza Pandemic | The White House

Federal Register
::
Declaration of a National Emergency With Respect to the 2009 H1N1 Influenza Pandemic



To push lies to people.
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Yeah, I think people with familiar looked at who posted it and knew it would be steaming pile of troll BS
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

Moderator's Warning:
Enough with the personal remarks folks. Stick to the topic and ONLY the topic. Personal remarks will get you thread banned at best. Any posts that violate any rules prior to this in-thread may still be acted on...
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Just notice the similarities between the two.
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Did congress refuse to fund an Obama flu program? So Obama tried to go around congress by taking the money from elsewhere?

Yes, these things are done using a boilerplate. Was that your point? Okay.

Not important or even interesting.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

<alt>doxygen said:
Did congress refuse to fund an Obama flu program? So Obama tried to go around congress by taking the money from elsewhere?

Yes, these things are done using a boilerplate. Was that your point? Okay.

Not important or even interesting.
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Republicans favored the border security proposals but democrats didn't, after Trump got elected. Democrats threw all their weight and mustered as much influence as the they could into stopping Trump. Trump was not stopped. That is politics. Americans elected Trump to get things done in spite of the stupid stonewalling and obstructionism of the liberals in both parties.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Republicans favored Trump's silly wall he promised Mexico would pay for but democrats didn't, after Trump got elected. Democrats threw all their weight and mustered as much influence as the they could into stopping Trump.

Trump ran on the scary border story hard in 2018 and got creamed. Trump was stopped. That is politics.
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So Trump decided to go around the other branches of government in order to build an unnecessary wall he promised Mexico would pay for using taxpayer money instead.

...Fixed it for you.

Now what does Obama's executive order clipped in your OP have to do with this mess, or have you changed the thread topic?
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

<alt>doxygen said:
So Trump decided to go around the other branches of government in order to build an unnecessary wall he promised Mexico would pay for using taxpayer money instead.

...Fixed it for you.

Now what does Obama's executive order clipped in your OP have to do with this mess, or have you changed the thread topic?
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Do you work in liberal media? You turned the truth into a lie so quickly I am persuaded you have been doing this a lot.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Do you work in liberal media? You turned the truth into a lie so quickly I am persuaded you have been doing this a lot.
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You seem to be rather easily persuaded.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
If Congress does not like Trump's emergency then they can overrule Him, but they won't because they do not have the muscle to do it. Democrats are therefore turning to the court to stop Trump, which is not the way the government was ever set up originally. Democrats have developed a new strategy. When they do not have enough votes in Congress to push their progressive agenda through or to try to stop the President when they do not like what he is doing, they turn to their leftist judges to try to force their will on the people through imperialistic judicial edict. That is how brutal regimes get things done - not by just law but by unjust force.

Democrats are right. God Bless America is being transformed by democrat barbarians into "Goddamn America" by judicial decree apart from the legislative process.
Click to expand...

:roll:
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

OrphanSlug said:
What is the point of this?
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Moreover what is the source of it? If someone wants to start quoting recent presidents, they better come with citation.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Here is the nearly exact wording from Obama's 2009 H1N1 national emergency declaration, with Trump's modifications for his own emergency declaration in red.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, including sections 201 and 301 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) and consistent with 8 U.S. Code, Section 1182, Inadmissable Aliens, in response to Homeland Security press release, dated Feb. 15, 2018, entitled WE MUST SECURE THE BORDER AND BUILD THE WALL TO MAKE AMERICA SAFE AGAIN , do hereby find and proclaim that, given that the rapidly increasing threat of huge caravans of undocumented and unvetted immigrants seeking entry into the US through our porous southern border with Mexico may overwhelm immigration centers and existing agencies for processing immigrants, as well as place huge burdens on already overburdened fiscal resources needed to care for unemployable undocumented immigrants, hereby declare that other agencies of the federal government may supply resources to combat the growing problem of unsecured borders between the US and Mexico.
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OrphanSlug said:
What is the point of this?
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:shrug: The nature of the emergency declaration changes based on the circumstances and the wording of said declaration. So, plugging Trump's text into Obama's national emergency declaration would be different as both men were addressing completely different things using very different laws to provide justification for their declaration. So, like OrphanSlug said, "What's the point of this?"
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
That is what I tried to say. My bad. I am sorry for my errors in communication but am not sorry for attempting to point out the similarities between the two different declarations of emergency. Did you read them both? Do you not see the similarities?
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The two emergency declarations are not the same because they don't use the same provisions of law as justification for handling two completely different situations.

I understand what you were trying to do, but the situations are not the same and, thus, can not be aptly compared.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Let me say that there are very noticeable similarities between the two declarations whether anyone wants to admit that or not. Even of I messed up an attempt at comparison because I did not go back and make sure I got the color coding right.

Besides, if Trump wrongly invokes an emergency, by law Congress must be the one to lift the emergency, not the democrat party and not democrat judges in activist courts.
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Hence, the reason the House has passed a joint resolution to void Pres. Trump's emergency declaration. Now, it's up to the Senate (GOP) to find their balls and/or backbone and do what is right here.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

Objective Voice said:
The two emergency declarations are not the same because they don't use the same provisions of law as justification for handling two completely different situations.

I understand what you were trying to do, but the situations are not the same and, thus, can not be aptly compared.
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Also, Obama did not say the things marke claimed he did. It has already been proven it was a lie.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

marke said:
Exactly, which is why I said the caravan language was the basis for Trump's justification in declaring a national emergency and not Obama's.
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But this is exactly why your false equivalency post failed. Obama's national emergency order concerning a flu-like outbreak that impacted several states and emergency care services from local hospitals to the CDC is vastly different from Pres. Trump declaring a national emergency just to build his wall to limit the inflow of illegal immigration. In Obama's case, there was a real national emergency dealing with the country's overall physical health across the whole of society. In Trump's case, the only emergency is the one he created himself in an effort to keep a campaign promise.

To put it in perspective, the nation isn't at risk over a un-license Mexican driver who entered the country illegally and conducted vehicular manslaughter. The accident, though tragic and may have occurred on more than one occasion, does not constitute a national emergency. Furthermore, it's something that can be mitigated by other means, i.e., increased manpower among Border Patrol agents, hiring more INS clerks/claims processors, etc., you know...front-end things so that events such as what I've described don't happen (or happen less often) on the back-end. Building a wall along the southern border will not stop that sort of thing from happening...human behavior being what it is.
 
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Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

Slyfox696 said:
Also, Obama did not say the things marke claimed he did. It has already been proven it was a lie.
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True, but I understood what he was trying to do. He simply went about it the wrong way.

You can't compare two emergency declarations that don't cover the same type of emergency situation. The two don't compare.
 
Re: Obama's edited declaration of national emergency

ClaraD said:
a terrorist attack that had already occurred, is a national emergency....a wall that he already declared didn't need to be done, is not a national emergency.
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Not to mention he pulled troops from the border beforehand. I mean, if the emergency truly existed don't you think he would have ordered them to stay there?
 
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