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Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Visbek

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US News: National debt tops $22 trillion for first time, after Trump tax cut

Treasury Department:
Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

$16,157,240,020,401 in Treasuries
$5,855,600,871,283 in Intragovernmental

Needless to say, the big drivers these days are the Trump tax cuts, and last year's spending bills.

The most likely short-term impact will be an increase in interest rates. In the medium term, it will probably make it harder to borrow in a recession.

Someone better hope that MMT is accurate....
 
Where are the "conservatives" decrying this fiscal irresponsibility? They were quite vocal only a few years ago. Something must have happened to change their minds. I wonder what it might have been?
 
US News: National debt tops $22 trillion for first time, after Trump tax cut

Treasury Department:
Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

$16,157,240,020,401 in Treasuries
$5,855,600,871,283 in Intragovernmental

Needless to say, the big drivers these days are the Trump tax cuts, and last year's spending bills.

The most likely short-term impact will be an increase in interest rates. In the medium term, it will probably make it harder to borrow in a recession.

Someone better hope that MMT is accurate....

Expect some pushback on your tax cuts driving the debt claim. I agree with you, just sayin'. There are some ideologues around here that think the government should be abolished. They recognize that tax cuts make it easier to cut the government they hate. And so they're gonna be pissed off if you tell them that their tax cuts that they support, are theoretically driving something that they claim to be against. I've went rounds with these ideologues but, they just don't care. They want private enterprise to run everything and they believe that the government is intrinsically deficient. Doesn't matter if you show them the government working in efficient and beneficial ways. They would rather the government be sabotaged in order to save face.
 
Where are the "conservatives" decrying this fiscal irresponsibility? They were quite vocal only a few years ago. Something must have happened to change their minds. I wonder what it might have been?

All of that debt is because of Food Stamps and WIC, Ditto. Not the unfunded fiscal stimulus for the top 1%. It's all the free Cheetos! What the hell! This is an outrage. That poor guy is eating steak for free and I'm over here working my ass off for 14 dollars an hour eating rice and beans! Blame the poor!
 
US News: National debt tops $22 trillion for first time, after Trump tax cut

Treasury Department:
Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

$16,157,240,020,401 in Treasuries
$5,855,600,871,283 in Intragovernmental

Needless to say, the big drivers these days are the Trump tax cuts, and last year's spending bills.

The most likely short-term impact will be an increase in interest rates. In the medium term, it will probably make it harder to borrow in a recession.

Someone better hope that MMT is accurate....

As much as I hate trump, and as wasteful as his spending is (these tax cuts have bought absolutely nothing), interest rates won't increase unless and until the Fed wants them to, and borrowing will never be a problem.

The Republican game plan has always been to bankrupt the country (or make it seem like the country is so far in debt that we are "broke") in order to attack the social safety nets built by the Democrats. None of that has changed. In the meantime, keep labor costs low by keeping labor unemployed, while grateful business owners pay to keep them in office.
 
Not a surprise that at a republican is bankrupting our country. Donde estan los teabaggers?
 
All of that debt is because of Food Stamps and WIC, Ditto. Not the unfunded fiscal stimulus for the top 1%. It's all the free Cheetos! What the hell! This is an outrage. That poor guy is eating steak for free and I'm over here working my ass off for 14 dollars an hour eating rice and beans! Blame the poor!

Oh, no doubt that's it, but you'd think the self described "conservatives" would be all over giving away taxpayer dollars to people who just are wasting their time using food stamps to feed their kids. That money could be used to build more aircraft carriers, after all.

Or, pay down the deb... oh, right. The Republicans have their man in the White House. No need to talk about paying down the debt at least until after 2020.
 
Oh, no doubt that's it, but you'd think the self described "conservatives" would be all over giving away taxpayer dollars to people who just are wasting their time using food stamps to feed their kids. That money could be used to build more aircraft carriers, after all.

Or, pay down the deb... oh, right. The Republicans have their man in the White House. No need to talk about paying down the debt at least until after 2020.

Unless trump gets reelected. In that case the debt wont be an issue until 2024.
 
Under Obama, talk of the debt was an almost daily outrage thing.

Under Trump, it's a nothing burger.
 
Trump spends over 2 trillion in two years and no peep out of republicans.
 
Trump inherited this mess from Obama
 
Republicans only care about debt when it is created to help poor people and the middle class. They are happy to raise the debt to give corporations tax breaks and handouts.
 
Trump inherited this mess from Obama

Lol. Was waiting for this. Funny how the Obama wasn't able to use the great recessions and the $1.4 trillion deficit he inherited as an excuse.
 
Trump inherited this mess from Obama

You mean the booming economy?

Yes that is right.

Now is the time someone who is actually conservative would be paying down our dept, not increasing it.

But since the days of Reagan the GOP has been over and over again they are anything but conservative...
 
Republicans only care about debt when it is created to help poor people and the middle class. They are happy to raise the debt to give corporations tax breaks and handouts.

And who do you think the Republicans think should pay it back? They think they can take if from the social programs of the poor and middle class. They are as predictable as the sun rising.
 
The people will pay for it, geez when will I read news that the debt has somehow decreased.
 
The people will pay for it, geez when will I read news that the debt has somehow decreased.

When people realize that fiscal conservatism doesn't mean unfunded stimulus to rich people.
 
Trump inherited this mess from Obama

To some extent, yes. But then, doesn't every president inherit a mess from his predecessor?
The incoming president always claims this, but I suspect that's political spin going on there.

One thing for sure, 3%+ GDP growth is something to the positive.
Lowest unemployment in like 50 years, and highest labor participation rate. Those are positives as well.

Reduction in the economic strangling regulatory red tape, another positive thing.

The debt has been concerning some for at least the last 3-4 years, and for some even longer. Given that the debt interest payments are starting to squeeze out some of the spending . . . only means its not getting better.

Two ways out of the debt squeeze:
1). Inflate you way out - damages the income and assets of everyone, but mostly the middle class (and didn't we take in ass the last 10 years already?)
2). Grow (and grow fast!) your way out, so that paying the debt become easier in those boom times

I favor option 2. Far less destructive to far more people.
 
Lol. Was waiting for this. Funny how the Obama wasn't able to use the great recessions and the $1.4 trillion deficit he inherited as an excuse.

He also doubled the national debt doing.
 
To some extent, yes. But then, doesn't every president inherit a mess from his predecessor?
The incoming president always claims this, but I suspect that's political spin going on there.

One thing for sure, 3%+ GDP growth is something to the positive.
Lowest unemployment in like 50 years, and highest labor participation rate. Those are positives as well.

Reduction in the economic strangling regulatory red tape, another positive thing.

The debt has been concerning some for at least the last 3-4 years, and for some even longer. Given that the debt interest payments are starting to squeeze out some of the spending . . . only means its not getting better.

Two ways out of the debt squeeze:
1). Inflate you way out - damages the income and assets of everyone, but mostly the middle class (and didn't we take in ass the last 10 years already?)
2). Grow (and grow fast!) your way out, so that paying the debt become easier in those boom times

I favor option 2. Far less destructive to far more people.

You love the growth huh. What will you say when it drops back down to 2%? The stimulus of the tax cut has waned already and CBO forecasts are 2% or so from here on out. We are in a "boom time" and deficits are nearing a trillion and rising. It's called burning a candle at both ends and a recipe for disaster.

54318-home-figure1a.png
 
Expect some pushback on your tax cuts driving the debt claim. I agree with you, just sayin'. There are some ideologues around here that think the government should be abolished. They recognize that tax cuts make it easier to cut the government they hate. And so they're gonna be pissed off if you tell them that their tax cuts that they support, are theoretically driving something that they claim to be against. I've went rounds with these ideologues but, they just don't care. They want private enterprise to run everything and they believe that the government is intrinsically deficient. Doesn't matter if you show them the government working in efficient and beneficial ways. They would rather the government be sabotaged in order to save face.

Bold: Hyperbolic much? About the only ones in the entire country that think that are anarchists. And they probably number maybe 1000 people.
 
Where are the "conservatives" decrying this fiscal irresponsibility? They were quite vocal only a few years ago. Something must have happened to change their minds. I wonder what it might have been?

About the same place that Democrats are when they're in power I'd imagine. :shrug: Being mum on it until they are out of power...then they'll holler. Just like Democrats are hollering about it now, although now that they have more power than they had last year we're hearing less of the "outrage" on it.
 
We have been perpetually complaining to Congress to start cutting some spending.
When times are bad, government increases spending. When times are good, government increases spending.
 
US News: National debt tops $22 trillion for first time, after Trump tax cut

Treasury Department:
Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

$16,157,240,020,401 in Treasuries
$5,855,600,871,283 in Intragovernmental

Needless to say, the big drivers these days are the Trump tax cuts, and last year's spending bills.

The most likely short-term impact will be an increase in interest rates. In the medium term, it will probably make it harder to borrow in a recession.

Someone better hope that MMT is accurate....

Here is the issue, and it always the same thing in our current economic model. What we should be evaluating are the reasons for additions to debt.

The federal government can and will borrow, making determinations as they go on the cost of doing so budget year to budget year (some would call service to debt.) The Fed will control interest rates as they have been, and even though they have slowly increased rates odds are they will have to back off of that depending on future indicators. The Federal Total Debt number *not* being one of those indicators.

What the Fed has been looking at is inflation indicators against GDP growth indicators - trend lines my friends, excess debt indicators between businesses and consumers - realized by the record numbers across all private debt sectors with no exceptions, and lastly the length of time we have been in an expansion economically speaking - something like 116 months straight suggesting the Fed is looking for an interest rate neutral point to deal with a suspected recession within the next 1-2 years. They have to have somewhere to go with an interest rate reduction when we experience economic faults.

To your point, where we should be critical is of Federal economic and tax policy during reasonable economic good times that increases Federal Debt when we should not. And that means we should be sharply critical of Trump and the associated Congress (you cannot leave them out) that gave a tax cut to the wealthy during a time in which there was no economic reason to do so.

Private wealth holding has broken records in recent years, the largest corporations wealth holding has broken records in recent years, and frankly corporate debt has broken records simply because borrowing has been so cheap that there is little reason not to borrow even when looking at business expansion rates (aggregate demand.) Since the last recession there have been two income quintiles that recovered fully and expanded... the very lowest 5th income quintile (where 7 to 8 of the top 10 employers in this nation pay their employees) and the very highest income quintile. What has not happened is a massive expansion of the middle income quintiles and that points to economic and tax policy faults.

The economy has had a very long growth period but not equitably felt by all economic participants.

That means that Republican ideology on protecting wealth at the expense of Total Debt is realized.

Even during our reasonable economic times we are adding to Total Debt at an alarming rate, and *that* puts us in a terrible position when the economy will go south next. When we have to go into further levels of debt to deal with the next set of aggregate demand faults we will be doing so from a position of already adding massive amounts of debt just to make Republicans happy about wealth protection. I think we will see 2018 land at $778 billion in deficit, up some 17% ('ish) from the previous year when the economy is still growing.

What we saw was Trump and Congressional Republicans triple down on "trickle down economics" that has never worked and added to debt each time usually during a time we did not need to.

You add to Total Debt by running deficits when there is an economic need to do so, when you have the government spending part of the GDP math handle faults with aggregate demand. What you do not do is add to Total Debt by running larger deficits to protect wealth already at record levels (in every possible way they could be record levels.)
 
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