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Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Congress creates budgetary commitments and defines tax structure. They work in tandem to define a budget infrastructure, which since GW Bush, has been a deficit infrastructure... Sorry you can't get your head wrapped around the concept, but most others reading this know exactly what I am talking about.

A President, no matter how hard he tries, simply cannot balance the budget in short order. Even if everyone made a balanced budget a primary goal, the politics would not allow it short order. Hence, we end up with a budget infrastructure (as described in the 1st paragraph). This seems to be a nuance about the political process that you don't get. I agree that it requires a little bit of gray matter to understand it, but it really appears that it is you that requires the civics lesson....

I am not interested in your condescending drivel. I am sorry you think so little of yourself that you feel it necessary to build yourself up by attempting to put others down. Its a weak form of argument and a weak form of existence. I hope you realize it only reflects poorly on you.

Guess I am not going to have to make that apology to you for pointing out Presidential. powers and the FACT that the President cannot spend a dime without Congressional Approval and guess you aren't mature enough to admit when wrong

Typical diversion claiming I don't think enough of myself that I post condescending remarks with the reality is it is you and the radical left that are so arrogant and think so little of the American people that you continue to promote massive federal spending and believe people are too stupid to see through any propaganda you and the radical left post. Seems the problem here with you and others is being civics challenged and not understanding Presidential powers and the checks and balances system

I have requested that you and others post the line items that increased the 2018 deficit only to be met with silence on that request and more attacks against the Republicans and Trump. Your ideology of being a Progressive says it all, a full blown liberal without the guts to admit it and very poor understanding of the official economic results your ideology generated.
 
I am still waiting for you and other Obama supporters to explain how Bush is responsible for the 2009 deficit without any spending authority given by the DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS? Who signed the 2009 budget? Seems like a lot of civics ignorance here that continues today blaming Trump for spending increases that caused the 2018 deficit to grow 17% when the reality remains there was NO budget for 2018, Trump had no spending authority, and all Trump could do was cut spending which he did with the Executive branch budget. Your bias and ignorance is on full display regarding Presidential powers.

My short clueless statement yesterday was done later in the day when I was worn out kicking your butt.

TARP didn't capitalized the banks?

TARP wasn't a Loan?

TARP wasn't mostly repaid in 2009?

350 billion of TARP wasn't released under Bush and wasn't part of that PROJECTED deficit CBO generated for 2009?

TARP wasn't responsible for digging us out of the recession?

Recovery.org wasn't created to show Stimulus spending?

Obama's stimulus spending for shovel ready jobs didn't see employment go down 4 million in 2009, and only increase 1 million in 2010?

Economic results from the Obama economic policies didn't lead to the worst recovery in U.S. History?

Claiming this was the worst recession in history because of the results generated doesn't indicate economic failure of Obama economic policies?

So many questions totally ignored by you and the left showing again that radicals like you are incapable of admitting when wrong making you part of the problem not part of the sollutions

I'm still waiting for you to explain why you expect other people to respond to arguments they haven't made. If you have any quote of mine where i claimed Bush is responsible for the entire 2009 deficit, TARP wasn't a loan, etc..., then by all means. But since i haven't made any of the arguments you chosen to respond to, i'm not answering any of these worthless ****ing questions.
 
What is going on in your area calls into question your credibility and the states on any issue.

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That you still think I live in San Francisco calls into question whether you even read my posts.

Anyway, the subject is the national debt not me.
 
From your source.

DateDebt Held by the PublicIntragovernmental HoldingsTotal Public Debt Outstanding
01/02/08 $ 5,130,778,241,224.70 $ 4,079,809,202,837.77 $ 9,210,587,444,062.47
12/30/16 $ 14,434,841,520,928.30 $ 5,541,985,430,119.43 $ 19,976,826,951,047.80
$ 9,210,587,444,062.47
2X
$ 18,421,174,888,124.90

$ 18,421,174,888,124.90 (a straight doubling of $ 9,210,587,444,062.47) is less than $ 19,976,826,951,047.80, which is what the debit was 12/13/16, at the end of the Obama administration.

:shrug:
First of all I have to ask you why are you putting part of Bush's debt on Obama?
Obama did not take office in 2008 but in 2009 and the incoming President does NOT take over the budget and the debt till Oct 1 of his incoming year
YOU started Obama's debt on " 01/02/08 $ 5,130,778,241,224.70 $ 4,079,809,202,837.77 $ 9,210,587,444,062.47 "again the debt was 11,920,519,164,319.42 on Oct 1 2009
even if you took it from the day Obama took office it would have been 01/20/2009 6,307,310,739,681.66 4,319,566,309,231.42 10,626,877,048,913.08

So doubling that still would be more then what Obama did to the debt doubling the debt on the day Obama took office ( even if He still had to work with Bush's last budget ) it would have been over 21 Trillion dollars not 19 like it was.

Again I have to ask you why are you putting over a years worth of Bush's debt on to Obama?
Have a nice day
 
First of all I have to ask you why are you putting part of Bush's debt on Obama?
Obama did not take office in 2008 but in 2009 and the incoming President does NOT take over the budget and the debt till Oct 1 of his incoming year
YOU started Obama's debt on " 01/02/08 $ 5,130,778,241,224.70 $ 4,079,809,202,837.77 $ 9,210,587,444,062.47 "again the debt was 11,920,519,164,319.42 on Oct 1 2009
even if you took it from the day Obama took office it would have been 01/20/2009 6,307,310,739,681.66 4,319,566,309,231.42 10,626,877,048,913.08

So doubling that still would be more then what Obama did to the debt doubling the debt on the day Obama took office ( even if He still had to work with Bush's last budget ) it would have been over 21 Trillion dollars not 19 like it was.

Again I have to ask you why are you putting over a years worth of Bush's debt on to Obama?
Have a nice day
PS
Here is the info from the US Treasury
you can see what the debt was when Obama took it over and up to the last day he was responsible for it

10/01/2009 7,505,894,097,177.82 4,414,625,067,141.60 11,920,519,164,319.42

09/29/2017 14,673,428,663,140.94 5,571,471,352,912.57 20,244,900,016,053.51

so on the day Obama took over the budget and debt it was 11.9 Trillion X 2 = 23.8 Trillion so Obama did NOT double the debt

So again I have to ask you why are you putting aover a years worth of Bush's debt on Obama?
have a nice day
 
I am still waiting for you and other Obama supporters to explain how Bush is responsible for the 2009 deficit without any spending authority given by the DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS? Who signed the 2009 budget? Seems like a lot of civics ignorance here that continues today blaming Trump for spending increases that caused the 2018 deficit to grow 17% when the reality remains there was NO budget for 2018, Trump had no spending authority, and all Trump could do was cut spending which he did with the Executive branch budget. Your bias and ignorance is on full display regarding Presidential powers.

My short clueless statement yesterday was done later in the day when I was worn out kicking your butt.

TARP didn't capitalized the banks?

TARP wasn't a Loan?

TARP wasn't mostly repaid in 2009?

350 billion of TARP wasn't released under Bush and wasn't part of that PROJECTED deficit CBO generated for 2009?

TARP wasn't responsible for digging us out of the recession?

Recovery.org wasn't created to show Stimulus spending?

Obama's stimulus spending for shovel ready jobs didn't see employment go down 4 million in 2009, and only increase 1 million in 2010?

Economic results from the Obama economic policies didn't lead to the worst recovery in U.S. History?

Claiming this was the worst recession in history because of the results generated doesn't indicate economic failure of Obama economic policies?

So many questions totally ignored by you and the left showing again that radicals like you are incapable of admitting when wrong making you part of the problem not part of the sollutions
Again stupid the Incoming President does not take over the responsibility for the budget and the debt till Oct 1 of the year he takes office
and Trump is responsible for the debt in the 2018 Fiscal year
That is why Trump gets blamed for the 2018 deficit
Have a nice day
 
I am still waiting for you and other Obama supporters to explain how Bush is responsible for the 2009 deficit without any spending authority given by the DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS? Who signed the 2009 budget? Seems like a lot of civics ignorance here that continues today blaming Trump for spending increases that caused the 2018 deficit to grow 17% when the reality remains there was NO budget for 2018, Trump had no spending authority, and all Trump could do was cut spending which he did with the Executive branch budget. Your bias and ignorance is on full display regarding Presidential powers.

My short clueless statement yesterday was done later in the day when I was worn out kicking your butt.

TARP didn't capitalized the banks?

TARP wasn't a Loan?

TARP wasn't mostly repaid in 2009?

350 billion of TARP wasn't released under Bush and wasn't part of that PROJECTED deficit CBO generated for 2009?

TARP wasn't responsible for digging us out of the recession?

Recovery.org wasn't created to show Stimulus spending?

Obama's stimulus spending for shovel ready jobs didn't see employment go down 4 million in 2009, and only increase 1 million in 2010?

Economic results from the Obama economic policies didn't lead to the worst recovery in U.S. History?

Claiming this was the worst recession in history because of the results generated doesn't indicate economic failure of Obama economic policies?

So many questions totally ignored by you and the left showing again that radicals like you are incapable of admitting when wrong making you part of the problem not part of the sollutions
The President has to sign CR's to keep the Government running and that is spending
So Bush like every other President has the Responsibility for what is in the budget that he signs and all the CR's he signs
Have a nice day
 
Congress determines spending.
Not Bush.
Not Obama.
Not Trump.
Not whoever gets elected next.

Congress.
 
Congress determines spending.
Not Bush.
Not Obama.
Not Trump.
Not whoever gets elected next.

Congress.
Who signs bills into law? The President. Yes, spending bills originate in Congress. But the President has a lot of control over what those bills look like. Just ask McConnell - he won't even put a bill to a vote unless Trump has already signaled support.
 
I'm still waiting for you to explain why you expect other people to respond to arguments they haven't made. If you have any quote of mine where i claimed Bush is responsible for the entire 2009 deficit, TARP wasn't a loan, etc..., then by all means. But since i haven't made any of the arguments you chosen to respond to, i'm not answering any of these worthless ****ing questions.
Seems this is another subject that you know very little about. This is an open forum and regardless of who I respond to it is seen by others as well.

Many here continue to blame Bush for the 2009 deficit including many on this thread. If you haven't made that claim then you have my apology however you continue to blame Trump for spending increases that created a 2018 deficit totally ignoring that almost all of that deficit increase was due to interest on the debt because of 4 interest rate hikes and the entitlement spending mandatory increase.

My point remains no president can generate a spending deficit without spending Authority. Obama had that spending Authority when he signed the 2009 budget in March. He also impacted Revenue growth by a failed stimulus program that didn't generate shovel ready jobs thus new taxpayers.

Had Obama not inherited a democratic Congress, TARP, no budget, and didn't have his stimulus past almost day one then he wouldn't have been held responsible 4 much of the 2009 deficit although TARP was mostly repaid after Bush left office but never was applied to the deficit except for the interest, the principle was recycled as Democrats would get their minions to blame Bush for all the 2009 deficit

There is no way in hell that Bush without spending Authority could generate that kind of deficit from October 2008 to the day he left office CBO predicted the 2009 deficit and had TARP included

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Congress determines spending.
Not Bush.
Not Obama.
Not Trump.
Not whoever gets elected next.

Congress.
That is very true, but the president's economic policies has an effect on Revenue generation. Obama's stimulus was for shovel ready jobs that never materialized so employment dropped and we lost four million taxpayers in 2009 and employment was 3 million less in 2010. Why is it the left looks at the results from the recession but never the economic policies that generated those results. Obama created the worst recovery in US history and that is ignored by liberals

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Who signs bills into law? The President. Yes, spending bills originate in Congress. But the President has a lot of control over what those bills look like. Just ask McConnell - he won't even put a bill to a vote unless Trump has already signaled support.
And of course that never happened with a democratic Congress did it?

All spending bills do began in Congress and do not have to be approved by the president it all depends on the issue. I really suggest that you take a civics class so that you understand the role of the president and the Congress it will help restore what little credibility you have left

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Where are the "conservatives" decrying this fiscal irresponsibility? They were quite vocal only a few years ago. Something must have happened to change their minds. I wonder what it might have been?

I don't care for the increasing debt. Not sure what can be done about it, given the political climate for the last 50 years.
 
You've presented citations that 'CEO pay is bad'. This is probably in line with your leftist ideology and little more than showing your confirmation bias.
Or, it's a recognition that it's bad for an economy and a society when the top earners reward themselves, and capture all the gains, and arrange for their taxes to get cut over and over, while everyone else gets screwed.


COEs, and other C-Levels, are also in a job market, one that has a scarcity of supply of good ones, leading to corporations to compete for the good ones, resulting in the large compensation packages.
Bwahaha.... No.

CEOs started pushing up their own pay in the 1970s, and the wealthy started pushing to cut their taxes in the Reagan years. In 1978, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio was around 30:1; today, it is closer to 300:1.

That change in pay didn't happen because there was a massive shortage of CEOs starting in the Reagan years; I assure you, for every current CEO, there are 100 people dying to take the job at a lower compensation. It also didn't happen because there was a massive increase in available labor. No, it's that corporate culture shifted away from a more responsible mentality, to one of satisfying short-term shareholders. Attempts to rein in CEO pay (notably CEO pay disclosure rules) wound up backfiring, as it gave the CEOs an excuse to demand higher pay by comparing to other executives.

The obvious answer is to undo the Trump Tax Boondoggle, and return to higher top marginal tax rates, as well as eliminate tax cuts and loopholes for the wealthy (like lower capital gains taxes and the carried interest loophole), and make education more affordable for the 99%.


In spite of leftists belief they can empower the government (some would say over empower), there's no thwarting a free market short of destroying it completely, and making everything far worse as a result.
Bwahaha.... No.

The US has never had the kind of radical laissez-faire economy that makes you drool. Federal, state and municipal governments have intervened in markets for centuries. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but the idea that "any attempt to introduce equity into a free market results in utter destruction" is laughable.


If leftists really cared about the 'American middle class' and their compensation, they wouldn't be promoting policies that import so much competing labor resources, nor regulate the economy and corporations to the point of strangulation, which depresses labor demand and therefore hurts that same middle class US citizens.
Yaay, more libertarian bull****

1) Immigrants don't steal middle class jobs. In fact, they are good for an economy, and generate economic activity. They rent homes, they buy food and beverages and clothes, they keep the cost of goods and services down, and many do low-wage work that native-born Americans don't want to do at those wages. There's tons of research backing this.

I might add that a true libertarian should be totally fine with a free market in labor. If an immigrant is willing to work for less than someone else, why should the government interfere? Hmmmmm.

2) In a lot of cases, you can either hire the immigrant in the US, or you can move the production to a foreign nation, or the job can be automated out of existence. Take your pick.

3) No, the US isn't strangling companies with regulations -- as should be obvious by the high level of entrepreneurship and manufacturing (yep, that's right, the US is at record levels of manufacturing output these days, we just don't need humans to make stuff), as well as incredibly high productivity in states that engage in regulation (notably California and New York). We also don't see the middle class booming in many low-regulation states like Louisiana or Kansas.


Appears the US middle class citizens have caught on to this bull**** from the Democrats, as their voting for Democrats appears to have fallen off, the ginned up TDS hatred not withstanding (yes, I'm honest enough to admit that this does have an impact).
Or, not.

1) In case you missed it, Democrats won the Presidency in 2008 and 2012.

2) In case you missed it, Clinton won nearly 3 million more votes than Trump in 2016.

3) In case you missed it, Democrats spanked Republicans in 2018. They swept the House, they took control of numerous governorships, they would have a majority in the Senate if the map wasn't so heavily tilted to Republicans that year. A lot of the gains were in, wait for it... middle-class suburbs.

4) In case you missed it, the Republicans haven't done jack for the middle class. Their primary goal is to slash taxes for the wealthy, and rig the system in favor of the corporate and ultra-wealthy contributors.
 
Or
CEOs started pushing up their own pay in the 1970s, and the wealthy started pushing to cut their taxes in the Reagan years. In 1978, the CEO-to-worker pay ratio was around 30:1; today, it is closer to 300:1.
butors.
300-1
LAFFRIOT.

This is what happens when you gullibly believe people like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
According to the latest report, for example, CEOs are paid an average $13.5 million, while the average worker makes $36,134 — a ratio of 373 to 1.

But the CEO number is based on data from only the 350 or so biggest companies, even though there are nearly 22,000 CEOs, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. In other words, it's just looking at the pay for the top 2% of chief executives.

The average pay for this broader group of CEOs is a much more reasonable $216,100, Perry notes, which works out to a 6-to-1 pay ratio.

Perry also found that the average wage that the AFL-CIO used in its report is artificially low.

In any case, a better way to measure this pay disparity would be to compare what a CEO makes to what workers earn at the same company.

It's understandable why the AFL-CIO doesn't do this, since the resulting ratio for the top 100 companies comes out to just 84 to 1.
Do CEOs Make 300 Times What Workers Get? Not Even Close | Investor's Business Daily

what next - women only make 77 cents on the dollar

#GUFFAW
 
And of course that never happened with a democratic Congress did it?

All spending bills do began in Congress and do not have to be approved by the president it all depends on the issue. I really suggest that you take a civics class so that you understand the role of the president and the Congress it will help restore what little credibility you have left

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If you think the President has no control over the budget, you don't know how government works. Sorry.
 
Who signs bills into law? The President. Yes, spending bills originate in Congress. But the President has a lot of control over what those bills look like. Just ask McConnell - he won't even put a bill to a vote unless Trump has already signaled support.

Did Trump signal support to the current spending bill? If so, he hasn't made it known to the public.
 
That is very true, but the president's economic policies has an effect on Revenue generation. Obama's stimulus was for shovel ready jobs that never materialized so employment dropped and we lost four million taxpayers in 2009 and employment was 3 million less in 2010. Why is it the left looks at the results from the recession but never the economic policies that generated those results. Obama created the worst recovery in US history and that is ignored by liberals

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Employment dropped after the stimulus was passed? Really? Where did you get that surprising bit of information? 4,000 jobs is a lot.
 
That is very true, but the president's economic policies has an effect on Revenue generation. Obama's stimulus was for shovel ready jobs that never materialized so employment dropped and we lost four million taxpayers in 2009 and employment was 3 million less in 2010. Why is it the left looks at the results from the recession but never the economic policies that generated those results. Obama created the worst recovery in US history and that is ignored by liberals

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The stimulus stimulus boosted economy by up to 3.5% and lowered jobless rate by up to 2.1%. (source).
It was found by multiple independent analyses to have created over 2 million jobs (source).

Please stop making stuff up.
 
Did Trump signal support to the current spending bill? If so, he hasn't made it known to the public.
The only reason we are even in this mess is because Trump refused to sign the initial spending bill back in December. Trump was able to shut down the government because the budget didn't have what he wanted. Are you really going to keep arguing the President has no control over the budget? I mean where have you been even the last few months?
 
The only reason we are even in this mess is because Trump refused to sign the initial spending bill back in December. Trump was able to shut down the government because the budget didn't have what he wanted. Are you really going to keep arguing the President has no control over the budget? I mean where have you been even the last few months?

Since the current budget has less money for the wall Trump wanted, I'd say he has little control over the budget. I'd also say that Trump is not holding the line on spending, as he is asking for more, not less.
 
Since the current budget has less money for the wall Trump wanted, I'd say he has little control over the budget. I'd also say that Trump is not holding the line on spending, as he is asking for more, not less.
I can just as easily say since the current budget has more money for the wall than the House wanted that the House has little control over the budget. Neither that statement or yours are true. Both the House, Senate, and President exercise a lot of control over the budget. You basically need all three to come to an agreement to get anything done (unless Congress overrides the President's veto, which is highly unlikely).
 
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