• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

Kushinator said:
Yes. But you have to speak con. I'm not proud but....

He means Obama was president for 8 months before the next fiscal year.
Click to expand...

How did those shovel ready jobs work out, weren't those supposed to create new taxpayers and wouldn't new taxpayers impact revenue for the gov't?

Interesting how you ignore what Obama did inherit, TARP, a Democratic Controlled Congress, NO 2009 budget, and a stimulus that passed almost day one. Apparently all negativity was due to Bush and none associated with Obama and the Democratic Congress that took control in January 2007. Amazing how easy it is to indoctrinate someone even as smart as you believe you are
 
Kushinator said:
You gotta be consistent.

It should follow as such:

Obama: October 1 2009 - October 1 2017

Trump: October 1 2017 - Today

Per the framework of your reasoning. But still, that excludes any additional expenditures that arise due to changes in policy. For example, roughly $410 billion of spending was authorized for fiscal year 2009 under the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009.
Click to expand...

Awe yes and let's not forget TARP repayments and of course those shovel ready jobs that Obama said would happen thus creating new taxpayers. Interesting how not having a budget and not even being in office created the Bush deficits for 2009. Wonder what gave Bush the authority to create those deficits? Oh by the way was TARP repaid and when?
 
Conservative said:
How did those shovel ready jobs work out, weren't those supposed to create new taxpayers and wouldn't new taxpayers impact revenue for the gov't?
Click to expand...

Although the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 was heavily underfunded, it did boost aggregate demand and economic confidence. It was a far superior method of stimulus (to tax cuts) given that monthly employment was dropping by 800k and wealth was evaporating @ a rate of $1 trillion per month.

Interesting how you ignore what Obama did inherit, TARP, a Democratic Controlled Congress, NO 2009 budget, and a stimulus that passed almost day one.
Click to expand...

Obama inherited the worst economy in the United States since 1940. Modern fiscal and monetary policy is what prevented a second Great Depression.

Apparently all negativity was due to Bush
Click to expand...

He was responsible for appointing regulators in the over-the-counter derivatives market. He was responsible for running up trillions upon trillions in debt to fund multiple wars. His Secretary of the Treasury, said no public money would be used to bail out banks on September 12, 2008. Republicans overwhelmingly opposed TARP. :lol:

and none associated with Obama and the Democratic Congress that took control in January 2007.
Click to expand...

The credit crunch was already under way by January 2007. At this point, it's comical how uninformed you are.
 
Conservative said:
Awe yes and let's not forget TARP repayments
Click to expand...

Tell us about TARP repayments. Maybe you will finally read about TARP in order to avoid looking foolish in your next response.

and of course those shovel ready jobs that Obama said would happen thus creating new taxpayers. Interesting how not having a budget and not even being in office created the Bush deficits for 2009. Wonder what gave Bush the authority to create those deficits? Oh by the way was TARP repaid and when?
Click to expand...

Why do you keep repeating yourself? Nobody cares about your opinions.
 
Kushinator said:
Although the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 was heavily underfunded, it did boost aggregate demand and economic confidence. It was a far superior method of stimulus (to tax cuts) given that monthly employment was dropping by 800k and wealth was evaporating @ a rate of $1 trillion per month.



Obama inherited the worst economy in the United States since 1940. Modern fiscal and monetary policy is what prevented a second Great Depression.



He was responsible for appointing regulators in the over-the-counter derivatives market. He was responsible for running up trillions upon trillions in debt to fund multiple wars. His Secretary of the Treasury, said no public money would be used to bail out banks on September 12, 2008. Republicans overwhelmingly opposed TARP. :lol:



The credit crunch was already under way by January 2007. At this point, it's comical how uninformed you are.
Click to expand...

So we were told and continue to be told by you, problem is the data doesn't support the claims as no where can I find any reliable source that counts saved jobs and wonder why employment dropped 4 million in 2009 and only recovered 1 million back in 2010 with that stimulus. Obama inherited what you claimed was the worst economy but ignored what he actually inherited which is what I gave you, TARP, a Democratic Congress, NO BUDGET, and a stimulus almost day one.

I would have thought someone as smart as you believe you are would understand that NO President can spend money without authority from Congress and that TARP was a loan that was repaid in 2009, where did that repayment go? We aren't a European Economy which you seem to not understand thus we would have recovered quicker with better economic policies but the poor results show how effective the Obama policies were
 
Kushinator said:
Yes. But you have to speak con. I'm not proud but....
Click to expand...
he has me on "ignore" (supposedly), so thats why I tossed it out for anyone else to try to explain...

He means Obama was president for 8 months before the next fiscal year.
Click to expand...
I get that, but somehow Obama was supposed to "affect" (declining) revenues during the worst downturn since the GD. How, according to the poster from Texass, was he going to do that?
 
Conservative said:
Here is what you and others want to ignore

Trump tax law paycheck calculator for every income level - Business Insider

If you want a bigger tax refund by giving the gov't more interest free money then reduce your dependents
Click to expand...
First of all They took the personal exemptions away so increasing your dependents will not do anything.
Thank you for that article
now a person that earns 50,000 a year would receive 51.42 more a week in their checks that is 2673.84 a year
now IF they took the standard deduction last year of 12700 and had a family of five they got 20250 personal deductions for a total of 32950
and this year seeing they took away the personal exemptions they can take 24,000 dollars Standard deduction alone, NO personal exemptions any more.
so last year after they deducted the standard deduction and personal exemptions they would have to pay taxes on 17,050 dollars for a tax of about 2410 dollars and this year they will have to pay taxes on 26,000 dollars ( 50,000 - 24000 = 26000 the 24000 is the new standard deduction) for a tax of 4800 dollars
( 10 % on the first 10000 dollars of taxable income or 1000 dollars 20 % on the next 10,000 for 2000 and 30 % on last 6000 dollars for 1800 dollars or a total of 4800 dollars)
as I said last year they paid 2400 dollars in taxes and this year they will pay 4800 in taxes
All in all they will be paying more at the end of the year this year then they did last
and as I said before if that is what Trump and the Republicans call a great tax cut for a family of five I do NOT want to see what they call a tax increase
Have a nice day
 
Kushinator;1069685157]Tell us about TARP repayments. Maybe you will finally read about TARP in order to avoid looking foolish in your next response.
Click to expand...

Pretty easy to find out about the TARP payments but as usual you don't want to get the facts just buy what you are being told, Bush spent 350 billion of TARP that was repaid according to Treasury


https://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/financial-stability/reports/Pages/tarp-tracker.aspx


Why do you keep repeating yourself? Nobody cares about your opinions.
Click to expand...


Got it, you don't care about your credibility or the facts, just being arrogant and poorly informed. I posted what Obama actually inherited, but you want to believe what you are being told and ignore the reality
 
Kushinator said:
You gotta be consistent.

It should follow as such:

Obama: October 1 2009 - October 1 2017

Trump: October 1 2017 - Today

Per the framework of your reasoning. But still, that excludes any additional expenditures that arise due to changes in policy. For example, roughly $410 billion of spending was authorized for fiscal year 2009 under the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009.
Click to expand...
So add the 410 Billion to Obama it still didn't double the debt like they keep saying and any thing Trump added between the Day he took office till Oct 1 of 2017 has to be taken off Obama's debt
Again my point is Obama did NOT double the debt / Tripled the debt or ran the debt up more then all his Predecessors combined like the Republicans keep saying
Thank you and have a nice day
 
Conservative said:
How did those shovel ready jobs work out, weren't those supposed to create new taxpayers and wouldn't new taxpayers impact revenue for the gov't?
Click to expand...
Since in 2009 only $185B was allocated for ARRA spending, and only one third was going into employment (2/3 went to tax cuts and UE/SNAP), it was not enough to counter the massive declines in employment.....stop being ridiculous.
 
Conservative said:
No, you don't inherit deficits you may inherit a budget but Bush had no budget for 2009 and Obama had 8 months to affect the revenue and failed miserably. Your biased partisan ignorance of civics is staggering

You and the rest of the left always make statements never backed up by data which doesn't do much for what little credibility you think you have
Click to expand...

Congress creates budgetary commitments and defines tax structure. They work in tandem to define a budget infrastructure, which since GW Bush, has been a deficit infrastructure... Sorry you can't get your head wrapped around the concept, but most others reading this know exactly what I am talking about.

A President, no matter how hard he tries, simply cannot balance the budget in short order. Even if everyone made a balanced budget a primary goal, the politics would not allow it short order. Hence, we end up with a budget infrastructure (as described in the 1st paragraph). This seems to be a nuance about the political process that you don't get. I agree that it requires a little bit of gray matter to understand it, but it really appears that it is you that requires the civics lesson....

I am not interested in your condescending drivel. I am sorry you think so little of yourself that you feel it necessary to build yourself up by attempting to put others down. Its a weak form of argument and a weak form of existence. I hope you realize it only reflects poorly on you.
 
Last edited:
upsideguy said:
CA President, no matter how hard he tries, simply cannot balance the budget in short order. It seems to be a nuance about the political process that you don't get. It appears that it is you that requires the civics lesson....
Click to expand...
I wonder if con has even thought about the problem of the govt removing monies from the economy during a recession when he whines about Obama NOT capturing enough revenue in 2009...
 
Conservative said:
The IRS reduced taxes the individual affects their own withholding by the deductions they claim. IRS has absolutely nothing to do with individual deductions
Click to expand...

but they do determine how much is with held. If the individual didn't change his/her deductions, then less money was with held. The problem is, the withholding was more than the tax cut. Individual taxpayers got an unrealistic view of how much they were saving due to the tax cuts. Whether that was intentional or accidental, I don't know, do you?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I get that, but somehow Obama was supposed to "affect" (declining) revenues during the worst downturn since the GD. How, according to the poster from Texass, was he going to do that?
Click to expand...

Cutting taxes and regulations of course!
 
Conservative said:
Pretty easy to find out about the TARP payments
Click to expand...

You should provide sources for your statements. If someone asks me for a source, i do not hesitate.


Bush spent 350 billion of TARP that was repaid according to Treasury
Click to expand...

Not quite. $439 billion was disbursed and $442 billion has been repaid.

I posted what Obama actually inherited, but you want to believe what you are being told and ignore the reality
Click to expand...

Obama inherited a financial and economic nightmare.
 
upsideguy;1069685275]Congress creates budgetary commitments and defines tax structure. They work in tandem to define a budget infrastructure, which since GW Bush, has been a deficit infrastructure... Sorry you can't get your head wrapped around the concept, but most others reading this know exactly what I am talking about.
Click to expand...

It isn't my head that is the problem, yours, budgetary commitments? show me the 2009 Budget that was approved by Congress that gave Bush spending authority? The fiscal year of the U.S. runs from October to Sept. so Bush operated from October through the end of his term with no budget so how did he create that deficit you claim Obama inherited without a budget? Now stop ignoring actual history and either post the approved budget Bush had or apologize

A President, no matter how hard he tries, simply cannot balance the budget in short order. Even if everyone made a balanced budget a primary goal, the politics would not allow it short order. Hence, we end up with a budget infrastructure (as described in the 1st paragraph). This seems to be a nuance about the political process that you don't get. I agree that it requires a little bit of gray matter to understand it, but it really appears that it is you that requires the civics lesson...
Click to expand...
.

Please, I anxiously await your civics lesson explaining as I mentioned where the President gets his spending authority and what happens when there is no budget? Prove me wrong and I will apologize, I prove you wrong and you ignore it

As for putting others down the expert at doing that is one who keeps giving you likes
 
Kushinator said:
You should provide sources for your statements. If someone asks me for a source, i do not hesitate.




Not quite. $439 billion was disbursed and $442 billion has been repaid.



Obama inherited a financial and economic nightmare.
Click to expand...

Gave you the source, you ignored it, Bush 350 billion and Obama the rest, where did the repayment go? TARP was a loan, Obama took over GM/Chrysler. Love making you look foolish

Obama inherited TARP which recapitalized the banks and that started turning the economy around. The recession ended in June 2009 and amazingly recovery.org doesn't show Obama spending his stimulus money. The recession was 14 months in when Obama took office so he had 5 months of the 19 month recession, amazing how the calendar and recovery.org show you to be nothing but a poorly informed partisan

It really has to be a let down for you believing as long as you have believed one thing only to find out you were misled and Obama was a failure.

What Ended the Great Recession?
 
Kushinator said:
Cutting taxes and regulations of course!
Click to expand...

Guess the term shovel ready jobs doesn't resonate with you and the rest of the Obama apologists. Shovel ready jobs would have created tax payers so maybe the problem is you don't understand where the gov't gets most of its revenue, hint, TAXPAYERS
 
Dittohead not! said:
but they do determine how much is with held. If the individual didn't change his/her deductions, then less money was with held. The problem is, the withholding was more than the tax cut. Individual taxpayers got an unrealistic view of how much they were saving due to the tax cuts. Whether that was intentional or accidental, I don't know, do you?
Click to expand...

The tax rates, yes, the deductions NO. Taxpayers benefited monthly not the one time tax return. Wouldn't surprise me to find out that the ones complaining weren't Trump supporters anyway
 
Conservative said:
so Bush operated from October through the end of his term with no budget so how did he create that deficit you claim Obama inherited without a budget?
Click to expand...
"Shrub could not have had a deficit...cuz....he had no budget!!!"

Good grief.
 
Conservative said:
Guess the term shovel ready jobs doesn't resonate with you and the rest of the Obama apologists. Shovel ready jobs would have created tax payers so maybe the problem is you don't understand where the gov't gets most of its revenue, hint, TAXPAYERS
Click to expand...
Uh, the 1/3 of the 2009 allocation of the ARRA for jerbs.....went mostly to the states.....so they could keep teachers, cop and firemen from being unemployed, there was hardly any monies for "new" employment. You just keep losing sight of just how little money was being used for increasing employment.

I'm still wondering just why you wanted MORE revenue during a recession.
 
It is probably timely to post the Presidential powers to our civics challenged liberals who always blame Republican Presidents for deficits.

Powers of the President of the United States - Wikipedia

The President of the U.S. has ZERO spending authority without Congressional Approval and Bush had a Democratic Congress that refused to give him that approval.

So please explain to me where I got this information wrong and I will sincerely apologize?? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
 
Conservative said:
The President of the U.S. has ZERO spending authority without Congressional Approval
Click to expand...
I think it could also be argued that a POTUS has little ability to increase revenue....so again, why did you expect Obama to increase revenue in 2009?
 
Conservative said:
The tax rates, yes, the deductions NO. Taxpayers benefited monthly not the one time tax return. Wouldn't surprise me to find out that the ones complaining weren't Trump supporters anyway
Click to expand...

The withholding. Not the rates, not the deductions, the withholding.
 
Conservative said:
It is probably timely to post the Presidential powers to our civics challenged liberals who always blame Republican Presidents for deficits.

Powers of the President of the United States - Wikipedia

The President of the U.S. has ZERO spending authority without Congressional Approval and Bush had a Democratic Congress that refused to give him that approval.

So please explain to me where I got this information wrong and I will sincerely apologize?? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
Click to expand...

It is probably timely to post the Presidential powers to our civics challenged Republicans who always blame Democratic Presidents for deficits.

Powers of the President of the United States - Wikipedia

The President of the U.S. has ZERO spending authority without Congressional Approval.

So please explain to me where I got this information wrong and I will sincerely apologize?? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom