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Thread: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Aw but it did
    The White House, conservative pundits, yourself, etc... all predicted and promised 3% real GDP growth. Now that reality has rendered this prediction into the trash, you want to focus on raw numbers.

    Sorry, the same reasoning applies.

    Looks to me like 5 million jobs and 2 trillion added to GDP is a pretty damn good start especially since the best is yet to come.
    As stated, it's simply a continuation of a trend. You are not capable of refuting this point.

    I will keep believing the actual results.
    You are unable to ascertain the actual results.

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    The White House, conservative pundits, yourself, etc... all predicted and promised 3% real GDP growth. Now that reality has rendered this prediction into the trash, you want to focus on raw numbers.
    Pointing to adding X dollars of GDP is intentionally deceptive, imo. Since, excepting economic downturns, GDP always grows. And you can wave some big sounding numbers at people and they ooh and ahh.
    Hurricanes are tremendously wet from the standpoint of water.
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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston View Post
    Pointing to adding X dollars of GDP is intentionally deceptive, imo. Since, excepting economic downturns, GDP always grows. And you can wave some big sounding numbers at people and they ooh and ahh.
    Real GDP has nearly tripled since 1980. Real wages have been flat to negative. GDP is a distraction from real economic conditions.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "To exercise pressure upon the indigent and the destitute for the sake of gain, and to gather one's profit out of the need of another, is condemned by all laws, human and divine." - Pope Leo XIII

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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston View Post
    Pointing to adding X dollars of GDP is intentionally deceptive, imo. Since, excepting economic downturns, GDP always grows. And you can wave some big sounding numbers at people and they ooh and ahh.
    Not to mention inflation or representation.

    $1 trillion in a $20 trillion economy isn't the same growth as $1 trillion in a $15 trillion economy.

    Conservative is too ignorant and partisan to accept this fact. So he will continue to ignore actual context in favor of rabid partisanship... Which is to defend Trump at all costs.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Real GDP has nearly tripled since 1980. Real wages have been flat to negative. GDP is a distraction from real economic conditions.
    Wages have fallen because there is greater return from employing capital (rather than labor)....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Wages have fallen because there is greater return from employing capital (rather than labor)....
    In other words, greater reward for not working than for working.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "To exercise pressure upon the indigent and the destitute for the sake of gain, and to gather one's profit out of the need of another, is condemned by all laws, human and divine." - Pope Leo XIII

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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
    Carter was unfairly blamed for the inflation of his last year in office. That inflation was caused by a shortage of gasoline. That in turn was caused by the Iranian Revolution of 1979. Carter was not responsible for that. President Eisenhower was.
    Is that some kind of fantasy alternate history?

    The OPEC oil embargo was in 1973. Carter didn't become President until 1976, and there was never any gasoline shortage during his term in office.

    Carter caused the so-called Iranian Revolution.

    The Shah had pancreatic cancer. He told US Ambassador Bill Sullivan he intended to abdicate, and wanted visas for his family to go to the US for medical treatment. The Shah did not want his sons to rule, and his sons had no wish to rule, and Sullivan agreed.

    The Shah and Sullivan also agreed that the next leader of Iran was going to be Khomeini.

    For that reason, Sullivan opened secret back-door negotiations with Khomeini, who was living in Paris. Sullivan cannot go to Paris, because that would tip off the French and French DGSE, so Sullivan brought the Brits on board, and British contacts were used. The Brits used a Jordanian, and Iranian-born Egyptian and a cleric in Kuwait with whom Khomeini had either been a student, or had taught with at school.

    The talks went for about 14-16 months.

    Since Khomeini was a foreign dissident in exile living in Paris, the French DGSE probably already had him under some level of surveillance, but seeing foreign agents coming and going would have spurred the curiosity of the French DGSE, and it didn't take them long to figure out what the US and Brits were doing.

    The French didn't want Khomeini, they wanted their man the Ayatollah Ruholla to gain power, and to thwart the plans of the US and Brits, the French DGSE tipped off supporters of the Ayatollah Ruholla at a mosque in Tabriz. The talks with Khomeini had progressed to a point where Sullivan and Khomeini were ready for a face-to-face meeting scheduled for March or April, but it never happened.

    As news of the Shah's pending abdication spread like wild-fire through Iran, different ayatollahs and their supporters started jockeying for power, which led to demonstrations, and the Shah stupidly tried to use the military to put down the demonstrations. Ultimately, most of the ayatollahs and their supporters threw their support behind Khomeini.

    When Sullivan finally tells Carter the Shah intends to abdicate, Carter stupidly listened to his neo-con advisors Gary Sick and Zbigniew Brzezinski, who told Carter to send General Huyser (an Air Force officer) to Iran to convince the military commanders to initiate a coup and install military rule.

    Huyser shows up at the embassy and Sullivan is on the next plane to Washington, and he and Al Haig beg Carter to call off Huyser, but Carter refused.

    All Carter had to do is roll out the red carpet and everything would be fine. The US and Iran would still be allies to this day.

    When Khomeini arrives in Iran, there's General Huyser and the Iranian army commanders.

    Put yourself in Khomeini's place. What would you think?

    Well, if you have half a brain, you'd know you're about to be stabbed in the back by the US, and only an idiot would be dumb enough not to figure that out.

    Whatever trust had developed between Khomeini and Sullivan evaporated right there.

    Later, when speaking at Tehran University, Khomeini tells the students exactly what happened: That the US tried to get the military commanders to initiate a coup and establish military rule.

    The students were incensed -- exactly like you would be -- and then stormed the US embassy and took it over.

    And don't say you wouldn't be angry, because you would be. If Clinton had actually been convicted in his impeachment trial, and in the interim before Gore was sworn in as President, suppose the French approached US military commanders trying to instigate a coup and establish military rule in the US.

    You would be damn mad, and everything French in the US would be destroyed. You'd be breaking bottles of French wine, and destroying French-made bicycles and burning French Peugeot and Renault cars and storming their embassy and consulates.

    Carter was stupid and made a bad decision, so he has only himself to blame.

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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    US News: National debt tops $22 trillion for first time, after Trump tax cut

    Treasury Department:
    Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

    $16,157,240,020,401 in Treasuries
    $5,855,600,871,283 in Intragovernmental

    Needless to say, the big drivers these days are the Trump tax cuts, and last year's spending bills.

    The most likely short-term impact will be an increase in interest rates. In the medium term, it will probably make it harder to borrow in a recession.

    Someone better hope that MMT is accurate....
    Hold on, you're not a Democrat are you? Maybe you're a libertarian, I could see that.
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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    What did he do about debt service and entitlement spending?
    He raised interest rates four times, our you kidding me?

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    Re: Nationl Debt Tops $22 Trillion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    The White House, conservative pundits, yourself, etc... all predicted and promised 3% real GDP growth. Now that reality has rendered this prediction into the trash, you want to focus on raw numbers.

    Sorry, the same reasoning applies.



    As stated, it's simply a continuation of a trend. You are not capable of refuting this point.



    You are unable to ascertain the actual results.

    And he did generate 3% fiscal year growth but this is a waste of time with you, you are clueless when talking about benefits to actual people, you just love to post line graphs

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