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Financing the Green New Deal

If you do not understand why we have taxes, I suspect this discussion will be far above your head.

Taxes are critical to the proposed New Green Deal. How else can everybody get the free money and benefits from the boondoggle democrat plan?

occasio fleecing tax payers.jpg
 
Taxes are critical to the proposed New Green Deal.

Taxes will certainly need to be adjusted, but it's not at all clear whether implementing these programs will cost people more or less overall. When we take into account the costs of health insurance for both insured and employer, universal healthcare is expected to save money overall, while providing better coverage for everybody.

The same reasoning holds for college. Costs in our present system are outrageous, and a major source of debt for young graduates, who would normally be ready to buy houses and cars. Other countries do not have these problems. There is no good reason to stick with our system.

But more importantly (I think), people need to understand that taxes don't pay for everything. Governments are completely capable of self-funding, the real limit being what the domestic economy can produce. (Please, no more inane arguments about the government giving everybody billions, hyperinflation, or any of the other trite and oft-debunked arguments of the uneducated.)

The proof of this should be obvious. The government deficit spends a significant amount almost every year, with no inflation or other ill effects. It does not cost us anything in the future, either. It never has, and it never will. That's just the way that money works. People, and even some economists, are finally waking up and listening to what MMTers have been trying to tell them for years - deficit spending is not a bad thing.
 
you are silly enough to think the government can manage money. The government got us into the debt and has proven unwilling to do anything about getting us out of it. The last estimate for single payer healthcare is anywhere from 1.3 to 2.8 Trillion per year, with the low estimate comeing from Sanders, (who never held a real job). The Green New deal is expected to hit about 40 trillion over 10 years. So you figure where the money comes from. The government doesn't make money from any business it just taxes the people and spends. We will lnot save money. The government will have to cut cost by force, Legislation, put doctors on the government payroll and determine the cost of services. Doctors are not in the business for charity work. Already some doctors do not take medicare patients because of what governemtn pays.
 
Taxes will certainly need to be adjusted, but it's not at all clear whether implementing these programs will cost people more or less overall. When we take into account the costs of health insurance for both insured and employer, universal healthcare is expected to save money overall, while providing better coverage for everybody.

The same reasoning holds for college. Costs in our present system are outrageous, and a major source of debt for young graduates, who would normally be ready to buy houses and cars. Other countries do not have these problems. There is no good reason to stick with our system.

But more importantly (I think), people need to understand that taxes don't pay for everything. Governments are completely capable of self-funding, the real limit being what the domestic economy can produce. (Please, no more inane arguments about the government giving everybody billions, hyperinflation, or any of the other trite and oft-debunked arguments of the uneducated.)

The proof of this should be obvious. The government deficit spends a significant amount almost every year, with no inflation or other ill effects. It does not cost us anything in the future, either. It never has, and it never will. That's just the way that money works. People, and even some economists, are finally waking up and listening to what MMTers have been trying to tell them for years - deficit spending is not a bad thing.

Let's simplify. Politicians promise lots of free stuff and government benefits for poor voters who return the favor by voting in large numbers for the politicians. The problem is that the politicians end up over time promising much more than the government will ever be able to pay for. The troubled politicians are now in a jam, so they blame the fiscal mess on their opponents and promise to increase the size of the government in order to fix the growing problem. And they lie about having to borrow money to keep their big government going and claim they will never have to pay the money back or that they will end up getting the rich to pay the debt off.

It becomes hard to distinguish among the ongoing nonsense what are pure lies, ignorance or stupidity.
 
you are silly enough to think the government can manage money. The government got us into the debt and has proven unwilling to do anything about getting us out of it.....

Let's concentrate on this claim for a minute.

For the government to be in true debt, it must borrow funds that originate in the private sector; i.e., it must borrow from banks. Do you really think this is how governments operate? Look back to 2008 - did Citibank bail out the Fed, or did the Fed bail out Citibank?

Governments that are sovereign in their own currency can simply create and spend their own money, whether by bond issuance, or simply by issuing money directly. In the U.S., Treasury issues bonds, investors buy the bonds, and the government spends the proceeds right back into the economy. The net result is an addition of bonds to the private sector, which they happily hold as assets. So tell me, where has the private sector spent or even tied up any funds in that transaction? Banks aren't even part of the equation here; bonds are bought and sold with government-created money.

The sum total of government deficit spending over our history is held by the private sector as savings. That's not debt in any meaningful sense of the word.
 
Let's simplify. Politicians promise lots of free stuff and government benefits for poor voters who return the favor by voting in large numbers for the politicians. The problem is that the politicians end up over time promising much more than the government will ever be able to pay for. The troubled politicians are now in a jam, so they blame the fiscal mess on their opponents and promise to increase the size of the government in order to fix the growing problem. And they lie about having to borrow money to keep their big government going and claim they will never have to pay the money back or that they will end up getting the rich to pay the debt off.

It becomes hard to distinguish among the ongoing nonsense what are pure lies, ignorance or stupidity.

Take a look at my last answer.

The government creates and spends its own money. It can never run out, and it can never be forced into bankruptcy. The only thing that can happen is that the government + the private sector can, together, spend too much for the domestic economy to handle (they wouldn't be able to meet the demand). The last time this happened was during WWII; because so much of our production was used to support the war effort, the government had to use a few measures to limit the demand of Americans back home. Since that time, demand has always been the limiting factor in our economy.

If we have enough doctors, nurses, and hospitals to administer healthcare to all Americans, then we can "afford" universal healthcare, because the government can come up with as many dollars as they need. (We do have enough healthcare resources to cover everybody, btw.) If we have enough colleges and professors, then we can "afford" government-provided college.

Did you ever wonder where we suddenly got the money to, say, pay for the Iraq War? It wasn't taxes that paid those bills, it was the government creating money.
 
Take a look at my last answer.

The government creates and spends its own money. It can never run out, and it can never be forced into bankruptcy. The only thing that can happen is that the government + the private sector can, together, spend too much for the domestic economy to handle (they wouldn't be able to meet the demand). The last time this happened was during WWII; because so much of our production was used to support the war effort, the government had to use a few measures to limit the demand of Americans back home. Since that time, demand has always been the limiting factor in our economy.

If we have enough doctors, nurses, and hospitals to administer healthcare to all Americans, then we can "afford" universal healthcare, because the government can come up with as many dollars as they need. (We do have enough healthcare resources to cover everybody, btw.) If we have enough colleges and professors, then we can "afford" government-provided college.

Did you ever wonder where we suddenly got the money to, say, pay for the Iraq War? It wasn't taxes that paid those bills, it was the government creating money.

Wow!! Cannot believe every post from you is about the same showing total lack of understanding as to what the role of the Federal Gov't should be and also ignoring the role of the state and local gov't. You are a walking advertisement for an indictment against our education system today and it is scary if this is what you truly believe or is this just an act for some college project?

You are basically making an argument of socialism or worse for the American people and apparently want everyone to work for the federal gov't. We have the greatest country on the face of the earth that was built on individual wealth creation, capitalism, risk taking, initiative, drive none of which resonates with you. Yes, the gov't creates the money but doesn't create the value for the money, demand does and if we had a country filled with people like you we would have a GDP dominated by federal spending, high states, control of production, and apparently a liberal utopia you have wanted for decades. No thinks, stop trying to destroy the greatest country and economy on the face of the earth all because you cannot complete and are jealous of others.
 
Wow!! Cannot believe every post from you is about the same showing total lack of understanding as to what the role of the Federal Gov't should be and .

LOL, this is rich.

YOUR vision of the role of the Federal Government is the correct one. Got it. LOL
 
LOL, this is rich.

YOUR vision of the role of the Federal Government is the correct one. Got it. LOL

Maybe if you read the Constitution and took a civics class you would see that I do indeed "get it."
 
Maybe if you read the Constitution and took a civics class you would see that I do indeed "get it."

Yeah, just like with the bible.

YOUR interpretations are fact, correct, right.

Already got that from you.
 
Take a look at my last answer.

The government creates and spends its own money. It can never run out, and it can never be forced into bankruptcy. The only thing that can happen is that the government + the private sector can, together, spend too much for the domestic economy to handle (they wouldn't be able to meet the demand). The last time this happened was during WWII; because so much of our production was used to support the war effort, the government had to use a few measures to limit the demand of Americans back home. Since that time, demand has always been the limiting factor in our economy.

If we have enough doctors, nurses, and hospitals to administer healthcare to all Americans, then we can "afford" universal healthcare, because the government can come up with as many dollars as they need. (We do have enough healthcare resources to cover everybody, btw.) If we have enough colleges and professors, then we can "afford" government-provided college.

Did you ever wonder where we suddenly got the money to, say, pay for the Iraq War? It wasn't taxes that paid those bills, it was the government creating money.

Wealth cannot be created by printing worthless money. If the government could just print more money to pay its debt then why are we still going deeper and deeper onto debt and why did Congress keep fighting over then debt ceiling under Obama? Why does Congress still fight over what to spend government money on if government money can simply be printed with more presses and does not have to be backed by something of value which must be created by hard work? The US treasury is not mother goose. Wealth is created by labor alone and there is no exception. Paying people government money and subsidizing people's expenses so they do not nave to work for what they get is a prescription for disaster.
 
Yeah, just like with the bible.

YOUR interpretations are fact, correct, right.

Already got that from you.

My interpretations? Really? The Constitution is easy to "interpret" because if it isn't there in writing it doesn't exist. You have never offered what you call interpretation but have promoted what isn't there over and over again which is the socialist utopia being promoted along with a massive central gov't to provide for personal responsibility issues. Marriage, Healthcare aren't in the Constitution thus are state issues not federal ones.
 
This is a DEmocratic plan?

Please site your source.

The source? What is the proposed source to be to pay for Baby Cortez's Green New Deal extravagances and reversals of industrialization?

ocassio eats free lunch at american evil rich dudes expense.jpg
 
Depending on how the next several months turn out...The next President can just declare an emergency and take funding out of missile defense.
 
Depending on how the next several months turn out...The next President can just declare an emergency and take funding out of missile defense.

Right, national defense is of no interest to you even though that is the SOLE responsibility of the federal gov't
 
Wealth cannot be created by printing worthless money. If the government could just print more money to pay its debt then why are we still going deeper and deeper onto debt and why did Congress keep fighting over then debt ceiling under Obama? Why does Congress still fight over what to spend government money on if government money can simply be printed with more presses and does not have to be backed by something of value which must be created by hard work? The US treasury is not mother goose. Wealth is created by labor alone and there is no exception. Paying people government money and subsidizing people's expenses so they do not nave to work for what they get is a prescription for disaster.

Our currency is not "worthless," and it competes against the international basket of currencies every single day.

The rest of your post misses the point about the economics of demand.
 
Our currency is not "worthless," and it competes against the international basket of currencies every single day.

The rest of your post misses the point about the economics of demand.

Did someone tell you that wealth can be created by the US government simply by printing more un-backed money? That is not so. In fact that is extremely stupid.
 
Did someone tell you that wealth can be created by the US government simply by printing more un-backed money? That is not so. In fact that is extremely stupid.

What was the exact context where someone told you that?
 
Wow!! Cannot believe every post from you is about the same showing total lack of understanding as to what the role of the Federal Gov't should be and also ignoring the role of the state and local gov't. You are a walking advertisement for an indictment against our education system today and it is scary if this is what you truly believe or is this just an act for some college project?

You are basically making an argument of socialism or worse for the American people and apparently want everyone to work for the federal gov't. We have the greatest country on the face of the earth that was built on individual wealth creation, capitalism, risk taking, initiative, drive none of which resonates with you. Yes, the gov't creates the money but doesn't create the value for the money, demand does and if we had a country filled with people like you we would have a GDP dominated by federal spending, high states, control of production, and apparently a liberal utopia you have wanted for decades. No thinks, stop trying to destroy the greatest country and economy on the face of the earth all because you cannot complete and are jealous of others.

So you can't counter my point, then.

You can't counter my argument that we are able to afford these programs, so now your argument against everybody having healthcare (and saving money in the process) and everybody having access to college (and staying out of debt in the process) is that these are commie ideas, and leave America and its patchy, expensive healthcare and wildly expensive colleges and belching smokestacks alone!

You are not just an uneducated guy spouting right-wing garbage and waving an American flag around, you are an absolute caricature of one, a walking, talking MAGA hat with a tiny body underneath.
 
Wealth cannot be created by printing worthless money.

The dollar is certainly not worthless. Are you saying that if the government wanted to pay you for your work, you wouldn't work to earn their money? You wouldn't produce anything in order to feed your family?

If the government could just print more money to pay its debt then why are we still going deeper and deeper onto debt and why did Congress keep fighting over then debt ceiling under Obama?

I have already explained how the government cannot "pay off" its debt, but it can (at great pain to the private sector) extinguish its liabilities via budget surpluses.

Why does Congress still fight over what to spend government money on if government money can simply be printed with more presses and does not have to be backed by something of value which must be created by hard work?

The hard work and production comes after the money is created. The same goes for bank loans - you come up with the money before you get your house or car.

The US treasury is not mother goose. Wealth is created by labor alone and there is no exception. Paying people government money and subsidizing people's expenses so they do not nave to work for what they get is a prescription for disaster.

The government is a customer, just like anybody else. Wealth is created when money is dangled as a reward for producing, and not before.
 
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