CBO: Individual, corporate income tax revenue down

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

Lakryte said:
Really? That's interesting. Welfare spending in FY 2017 was $356.8 billion. In FY 2018? $351.9 billion. That's a decrease in welfare spending. What about healthcare? In FY 2017 spending was $1.13 trillion. In FY 2018? $1.107 trillion. Another decrease. It's as if something else happened that could increase the deficit...what could it possibly be...

EDIT: government spending source (https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_2018USbn_20bs2n#usgs302)

cute, so the only entitlement spending is Medicare?? LOL, amazingly the radical left has a problem with people keeping more of what taxpayers earn, what is wrong with you people, why so jealous of what others earn and so concerned about what they pay in taxes while approximately 50% of income earning Americans pay ZERO FIT?

Lakryte · Feb 4, 2019

Conservative said:
cute, so the only entitlement spending is Medicare?? LOL, amazingly the radical left has a problem with people keeping more of what taxpayers earn, what is wrong with you people, why so jealous of what others earn and so concerned about what they pay in taxes while approximately 50% of income earning Americans pay ZERO FIT?

The categories of welfare spending and healthcare spending include many more entitlements than Medicare. Your claim that the increased deficits are primarily a result of increased entitlements is simply false. Again, welfare spending in FY 2017 was $356.8 billion. In FY 2018? $351.9 billion. Healthcare spending in FY 2017 spending was $1.13 trillion. In FY 2018? $1.107 trillion. Both health and welfare entitlements decreased. Again, you are just plain wrong.

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

Lakryte said:
Really? That's interesting. Welfare spending in FY 2017 was $356.8 billion. In FY 2018? $351.9 billion. That's a decrease in welfare spending. What about healthcare? In FY 2017 spending was $1.13 trillion. In FY 2018? $1.107 trillion. Another decrease. It's as if something else happened that could increase the deficit...what could it possibly be...

EDIT: government spending source (https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year_spending_2018USbn_20bs2n#usgs302)

Suggest you learn how to read the chart because here is your problem, Deficit in 2018 was up 110 billion in 2018 over 2017 and here are the categories. you are posting both state and local additions and not purely Federal expenses

Social Security +48 billion
Medicare +23 billion
Interest +40 billion

Total 111 billion dollars PLUS of the 110 billion deficit increase

Same link looking at the 2018 budget vs expenditures

Lakryte · Feb 4, 2019

Conservative said:
Suggest you learn how to read the chart because here is your problem, Deficit in 2018 was up 110 billion in 2018 over 2017 and here are the categories. you are posting both state and local additions and not purely Federal expenses

Social Security +48 billion
Medicare +23 billion
Interest +40 billion

Total 111 billion dollars PLUS of the 110 billion deficit increase

Same link looking at the 2018 budget vs expenditures

Comparing 2017 and 2018, spending on welfare is down and spending on healthcare (including Medicare) is down.

You know what else is down? Corporate tax revenue. That's where the bulk of the increase in the deficit comes from.

jonny5 · Feb 4, 2019

Conservative said:
Doubt seriously that this really is an issue for you but he did say in 8 years, NOT TWO

Federal tax revenue generated enough money to fund the discretionary funding increases but not mandatory expenses.

Well there you go. 700bn deficit, no control of spending, we get another 100bn, and he/they SPEND IT. Yeah, another trillion in debt is a REAL issue for me, as it has been for 20 years.

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

Lakryte said:
Comparing 2017 and 2018, spending on welfare is down and spending on healthcare (including Medicare) is down.

You know what else is down? Corporate tax revenue. That's where the bulk of the increase in the deficit comes from.

That is a lie Healthcare 1.143 trillion in 2018 vs. 1.120 in 2017

SS 1.061 trillion in 2018 vs. 1.012 in 2017

Debt service 315 billion in 2018 vs 276 in 2017

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

jonny5 said:
Well there you go. 700bn deficit, no control of spending, we get another 100bn, and he/they SPEND IT. Yeah, another trillion in debt is a REAL issue for me, as it has been for 20 years.

Post 106 will explain why the deficits were up in 2018, read it Don't worry, Democrats are in control of Congress now and will cut spending, raise taxes, and grow the economy because people always spend more when they have less money in their paycheck

jonny5 · Feb 4, 2019

Lakryte said:
Comparing 2017 and 2018, spending on welfare is down and spending on healthcare (including Medicare) is down.

You know what else is down? Corporate tax revenue. That's where the bulk of the increase in the deficit comes from.

Revenue is up. The bulk, the ENTIRE, increase in the deficit is SPENDING.

In 2018, the government’s revenues amounted to $3.3 trillion—$14 billion (or less than 1 percent) more
than in 2017. As a percentage of GDP, revenues fell from 17.2 percent in 2017 to 16.4 percent in 2018,
dropping below the average (17.4 percent) for the past 50 years.
Net spending by the government was $4.1 trillion in 2018—$127 billion (or 3.2 percent) more than in
2017. Outlays amounted to 20.3 percent of GDP in 2018, compared with 20.7 percent in 2017, and were
equal to the 50-year average.

14bn more revenue. 127bn more spending. How more clear can it be?

jonny5 · Feb 4, 2019

Conservative said:
Post 106 will explain why the deficits were up in 2018, read it Don't worry, Democrats are in control of Congress now and will cut spending, raise taxes, and grow the economy because people always spend more when they have less money in their paycheck

No, just like Republicans, they will do nothing. And they only control the House. The GOP Senate will do nothing. Trump will do nothing about the debt. Just like the last 2 years.

Lakryte · Feb 4, 2019

Conservative said:
That is a lie Healthcare 1.143 trillion in 2018 vs. 1.120 in 2017

SS 1.061 trillion in 2018 vs. 1.012 in 2017

Debt service 315 billion in 2018 vs 276 in 2017

Please cite where you are getting your data.

As for social security, you are correct that spending increased. But so did revenues from social security taxes. Social security does not add to the deficit because revenues collected exceeded the costs, both in 2017 and 2018. See page 42 of the SSA report for FY 2018 (which includes FY 2017 numbers).

Lakryte · Feb 4, 2019

jonny5 said:
14bn more revenue. 127bn more spending. How more clear can it be?

Because the tax cuts were to a subset of revenue. Without the tax cuts, corporate revenue would be higher, and the deficit would not have increased by the same amount. Do you deny the fact that corporate tax revenue is lower because of the tax cuts? Or are you trying to claim that corporate tax revenue would have decreased even without the tax cuts?

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

Lakryte said:
Please cite where you are getting your data.

As for social security, you are correct that spending increased. But so did revenues from social security taxes. Social security does not add to the deficit because revenues collected exceeded the costs, both in 2017 and 2018. See page 42 of the SSA report for FY 2018 (which includes FY 2017 numbers).

From the same link you posted and 106 explains

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

Lakryte said:
Because the tax cuts were to a subset of revenue. Without the tax cuts, corporate revenue would be higher, and the deficit would not have increased by the same amount. Do you deny the fact that corporate tax revenue is lower because of the tax cuts? Or are you trying to claim that corporate tax revenue would have decreased even without the tax cuts?

Corporate tax revenue was reduced by the bonuses, pay increases, benefit increases and charitable giving that benefited the state and local economies and coffers. All this focus on federal tax revenue and none on state and local taxes revenue or the 50% of income earners who pay zero FIT

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

jonny5 said:
No, just like Republicans, they will do nothing. And they only control the House. The GOP Senate will do nothing. Trump will do nothing about the debt. Just like the last 2 years.

What Trump did the last two years is drowned out by investigation after investigation and 24/7 Trump bashing. The economic results are there for all to see but you choose to ignore them and buy what you are told. In two years Trump has added 2 trillion to GDP, 4.7 million NEW jobs both records that haven't been matched by any other President. State and local tax revenue has set records, S&P companies have paid out record dividends, charitable giving is setting records so why aren't these being addressed nor the 50% of income earners not paying any FIT?

Lakryte · Feb 4, 2019

Conservative said:
From the same link you posted and 106 explains

Then you are reading it incorrectly. FY 2017 healthcare spending was $1,130.4 billion. FY 2018 healthcare spending was $1,107.2 billion.

Healthcare spending decreased between FY 2017 and FY 2018 by $23.2 billion. So it is empirically false to say increased healthcare spending is to blame for a higher deficit.

Lakryte · Feb 4, 2019

Conservative said:
Corporate tax revenue was reduced by the bonuses, pay increases, benefit increases and charitable giving that benefited the state and local economies and coffers. All this focus on federal tax revenue and none on state and local taxes revenue or the 50% of income earners who pay zero FIT

Well we are focusing on the federal deficit, so federal tax revenue and spending is what matters. But nice try changing topics to something else. Glad to see you have finally come around to accepting that the corporate tax cuts reduced corporate tax revenue. Less revenue = higher deficits, and that's what we got.

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

Lakryte said:
Well we are focusing on the federal deficit, so federal tax revenue and spending is what matters. But nice try changing topics to something else. Glad to see you have finally come around to accepting that the corporate tax cuts reduced corporate tax revenue. Less revenue = higher deficits, and that's what we got.

So why is it that Treasury data doesn't show that massive revenue loss, bea.gov?

Lakryte · Feb 4, 2019

Conservative said:
So why is it that Treasury data doesn't show that massive revenue loss, bea.gov?

It does. To see the effects of corporate tax cuts, look at corporate tax revenue. It declined significantly in FY 2018. It will likely be worse in FY 2019, because FY 2018 also contained the last few months of 2017 before the tax cuts were in effect.

Conservative · Feb 4, 2019

Lakryte said:
It does. To see the effects of corporate tax cuts, look at corporate tax revenue. It declined significantly in FY 2018. It will likely be worse in FY 2019, because FY 2018 also contained the last few months of 2017 before the tax cuts were in effect.

Why do you care about corporate tax revenue to the federal bureaucrats vs. the benefits corporations have provided to their workers and their community? Seems that big govt. liberals always care more about what bureaucrats get vs. workers and local communities

Vadinho · Feb 4, 2019

Greenbeard said:
Indeed, but it remains a very common argument.

The only way tax cuts for the very top would increase revenues is if they were the result of high earners realizing capital gains because their tax rates dropped. Its a short term thing and does not result in long term revenue growth, it is merely a way for those with huge untaxed gains to realize them at lower tax rates. Recent reports show that most of all the tax savings created by Trump for corporations went to stock buybacks not salaries.

Hedgology · Feb 5, 2019

Vadinho said:
The only way tax cuts for the very top would increase revenues is if they were the result of high earners realizing capital gains because their tax rates dropped. Its a short term thing and does not result in long term revenue growth, it is merely a way for those with huge untaxed gains to realize them at lower tax rates. Recent reports show that most of all the tax savings created by Trump for corporations went to stock buybacks not salaries.

Tax cuts is a form of fiscal simiulus that specifically targets disposible income, not salaries. There is evidence of disposable income increasing.

Taxes are what corporations pay AFTER all other expenses are paid, which would include wages. The savings from tax changes cannot be used to increase salaries, by definition.

Conservative · Feb 5, 2019

Hedgology said:
Tax cuts is a form of fiscal simiulus that specifically targets disposible income, not salaries. There is evidence of disposable income increasing.

Taxes are what corporations pay AFTER all other expenses are paid, which would include wages. The savings from tax changes cannot be used to increase salaries, by definition.

What the left doesn't seem to understand is the benefits corporations provide to the community in terms of employment, social spending, wages, bonuses, pensions. Corporations aren't people so the indirect benefits aren't as easily measured but the reality is millions of Americans received bonuses, wage increases, benefit enhancements, pension boosts all benefiting the state and local consumers thus the state and local revenue coffers

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...says-tax-bill-led-bonuses-three-million-work/

Vadinho · Feb 5, 2019

Hedgology said:
Tax cuts is a form of fiscal simiulus that specifically targets disposible income, not salaries. There is evidence of disposable income increasing.

Taxes are what corporations pay AFTER all other expenses are paid, which would include wages. The savings from tax changes cannot be used to increase salaries, by definition.

I hope you also agree that corporations have tax accountants that anticipate future tax liabilities and can make recommendations on how to use that information long before one does an actual return. It's called planning. Here is the thing though because you make a great point, the tax cuts from the right are always sold in the same way. Less taxes for Corp A, more wages for their employees. Its all bull but it sells.

jonny5 · Feb 5, 2019

Lakryte said:
Because the tax cuts were to a subset of revenue. Without the tax cuts, corporate revenue would be higher, and the deficit would not have increased by the same amount. Do you deny the fact that corporate tax revenue is lower because of the tax cuts? Or are you trying to claim that corporate tax revenue would have decreased even without the tax cuts?

Its irrelevant. Without SPENDING more, the deficit would not have increased.

jonny5 · Feb 5, 2019

Conservative said:
What Trump did the last two years is drowned out by investigation after investigation and 24/7 Trump bashing. The economic results are there for all to see but you choose to ignore them and buy what you are told. In two years Trump has added 2 trillion to GDP, 4.7 million NEW jobs both records that haven't been matched by any other President. State and local tax revenue has set records, S&P companies have paid out record dividends, charitable giving is setting records so why aren't these being addressed nor the 50% of income earners not paying any FIT?

Are the economic results worth an additional 2 trillion in debt? Why are YOU, a conservative, trying to defend this debt?