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Criticism of billionairism

Is that what godless universities are teaching in America now? To stop entrepreneurship so the little guy can make more money? That is stupid. At least Trump understands that people need to take risks in starting businesses which hire people and to get those entrepreneurs to take those risks there will of necessity be the promise of wealth to obtained if successful. Only an idiot would take the risk to start a business if he knew there would be no money in it.

So take the risk. If it is too much, then don't do it. Why should the tax code play any part ?

It should not.

Do I need an incentive or take on any risk to borrow money to buy an apt. bldg., raise the rent, sell it for million$ more ? NO !!

Do I need an incentive to buy a cheap stock ? NO !!
 
Just so I do not misunderstand you, grainbelt: You would want the government to enforce a cap on the accumulation wealth?

Just so I misunderstand you, your ridiculousness here notwithstanding, you need a tax incentive to invest in America ? Why ?

Either you take the risks which are minimum...or you don't. Why should labor pay more tax so capital

enjoys a 20% rate ?
 
No not at all. No where was a cap mentioned. I listed some things like progressive tax, enforcing and strengthening white collar financial and tax laws, enforcing anti trust, strengthening or enforcing consumer and worker rights, further incentivizing small business creation and growth, state and fed govt not pandering to the amazons, upholding competitive principles. I think especially for large corporations, they need to pay closer to true cost of business and not divert it as negative externalities onto public health and the environment.

The idea is that concentration of wealth and power into billionaires and mega conglomerates is not the best option for our citizens, democracy, economy. So why help it happen and further make ourselves dependant on their investments?

Progressive tax is wholly justified if you consider that someone earning the highest bracket is consuming the economic output the most. By which I mean, the total output is captured by them and working for them, they can be assumed on average to be consuming the largest segments of economic mechanisms like labor, physical and economic capital, lending, infrastructure, international activity, other public services including education, HHS, regulatory oversight. Directly or indirectly.

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Progressive tax rates are completely justified just as a higher insurance premium is. More at risk...the higher the premium.
 
do we need super billionaires? in many cases, i doubt it. do i really care about the ragefaces who would bitch online if we actually used that money for infrastructure, health care, and other good things instead while the super billionaires are still rich but just not as rich? not really. they'll bitch even if we don't do that.

I haven't quite arrived there yet but there are many (including I think, the catholic church that believes for any 1 person

to have a net worth over $1 billion...is immoral. Certainly to have many billion$, and to make more billions

taxed at 20%...is.
 
This is an unhinged post. I only reda the first couple sentences and could not even go on.
"If you get the idea that removing a middle man from a supply chain could lower cost and enrich the whole thing"

What on earth doe sthis even mean?

Then you use this as an analogy?

Honest, I have so had it with dumb.

I agree. Middle men have nothing whatever to do with the tax code or accumulation of billion$.
 
So take the risk. If it is too much, then don't do it. Why should the tax code play any part ?

It should not.

Do I need an incentive or take on any risk to borrow money to buy an apt. bldg., raise the rent, sell it for million$ more ? NO !!

Do I need an incentive to buy a cheap stock ? NO !!

In my business I needed to make profits to be able to expand. That was very hard when the IRS gobbled up too much of what would have otherwise been profits.
 
The top 1% by wealth owns something like 40% of stocks. Only a little over half are invested at all. The top .001% which is closer to the number of billionaires must own then 10 to 30% of stocks? I have no idea what proportion of direct investment they have. If i look at hypothetical publicly traded corporations, can I assume for discussion that the billionaires are skimming ~15% off everything? But is it more likely that their investment would be closer to a controlling share in an actual case? What would be your estimate?

With this in mind, corporatism is basically billionairism. For my arguments sake, a large corporation worth billions and a billionaire either working through it or on it's own are not that different in their ability to influence our economy and republic.

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Corporatism (capitalism) is a massive transfer of wealth from labor to capital and...for 200 years.

No wonder combined US debt is $71 trillion...going up $6 million/minute.
 
This is incorrect. Brands that market direct incur the costs of the middle man and must extract the profits of that end of the business to make the added work worth it. (return on investment)

At lease now I know what you mean but you clearly don't understand business. I don't mean this as a knock just a statement of fact.

It is common for people to think that brands that sell direct give them a better deal, it's just not the case. Take a typical internet direct company.You think they are eliminating the middle man but in fact they are hiring the folks who function as the advertising agency, the sales force, the customer service, the shipping department the extra warehousing....plus it's a whole new business to them, they are likely to not do it as well or as efficiently.

Business is structured as it is for a reason and the reason is not to drive up prices. Driving up prices lowers demand and business knows this so they don't do so more than they have to.

A good example If I understand you, is that when companies move their production overseas for cheap labor...

the marketplace does not reflect that discount. It only increases profits.
 
I agree with this 100%... and I can pinpoint exactly when it started - with the passage of Reagan's Tax Reform Act of 1986. Prior to that time, the tax code operated using Eisenhower's 1954 system.... it was focused on bolstering the middle class. What Reagan did was make the Tax Curve much flatter and encourage wealth accumulation for high-income taxpayers. It changed us from being focused on stimulating demand to stimulating supply. This had it's good points... it lead to the massive investment and technology boom of the 1990's... but it also has it's bad points in that Middle Class demand hasn't been keeping up.

Picture the economy like an internal combustion engine... it requires a mixture of fuel and air to run. Fuel is supply and Air is demand. The Tax Code is the carburetor that sets the right mix between the two. During the 1970's, we were running lean and stagflation was the result. I think Reagan got roughly the right mix with his first term tax cuts.... but his second-term tax reform made us run way too rich... and that's where we've been ever since.

I completely disagree about the 90s and anything Reagan did. In fact the big addition to high paying jobs

was technology. That technology was the Internet and the PC, both started yep, you guessed it.

NOT by entrepreneurs, not by the great innovators...but by govt.

Speaking of risk, 22 industries were created by the real entrepreneur in America...govt.
 
skimming?

imho you have come up with your ideas on how to correct the template that allows the rich to get richer without understand how things work.

in other words your remedies are for a situation that is not birthed as you believe.

listen, i am with you, the rich have way too much

but your ideas are based on fantasy so they are not even worth discussion

worry about taxing the bastards with zero loop holes. that will do the trick as it did to end the reign of the robber barons

The end of the robber barons was TR, anti-trust and the capitalist as usual, had to be dragged kicking and screaming

to give up their monopolies.
 
No we want the wealth transfer to the rich to stop. Enough already. It's time to put back income tax structure that controls the massing of wealth to the 1%. It worked before and it will work today. $20 million incomes are obscene and need to be taxed out of existence. Then maybe their will be money left over for raises for workers from all those record profits.
Otherwise we are headed down the same road as we were in the 1920's. No one wants that again, do you?

The capitalist doesn't care. The capitalist doesn't care about country, community or people.

They would love to create a market like 1929 as they did then.

[They] feel to hell with you, the country and everything and everybody else.
 
Communists destroyed Russia with their crappy Bolshevick Rob the rich fiscal ideas.

There were no rich at the Bolshevik revolution. There was the czar, his cronies and nothing else.

Communist collectivization ruined Russia. Under collectivization, the communists owned everything...including you.
 
I agree with these principles 100%, but your methods I couldn't disagree with more strongly. Allow me to explain.


No. When those large corporations(wealthy) go away what happens is there is less money in the total pot. You have more equality at the cost of a lower overall standard fo living. Eventually foreign large corporations will take advantage and you'll lose on both fronts.

This things comes from the income distribution gap: e.g. source to see how different sectors are doing.

Bottom 90%: -5%
Top 10%: 75%
Top 0.01%: 325%
*The more you graduate the greater the raise

That seems damning until you consider that the largest income growth in that comparison period was coming from foreign markets. See the world curve does not look like this at all(we are averaging). The reason for the massive growth rate at the top is foreign wealth enters the country through the top 0.01%. Changes in the 0.01% in this period reflect those realities. This new income is only distributed indirectly for the 99.5% the domestic growth rate is much lower.

Another thing worth considering is although that accounts for inflation that is a very poor way of measure changes in living standards. Taxes were way less as government provided far less public services in the past not to mention changes in technologies, choices and expectations. The advantages of owning a car in 1960 say equivalent to modern transportation options which can cost a lot less, what is the worth of a $50/mo internet connection, a luxury item like a tv or computer is now in most people's pockets? On that a car or house, is the average one built in 1960 the same as one built today? Houses are bigger now, more energy efficient etc etc. Car are more environmental friends, faster, comfier, have computers build in etc etc

An upper-middle class life in 1970 would be maybe working class by 2019 standards. In terms of lack of technology, healthcare, entertainment, convinces etc.

Living standards have certainly not gone down or improved as slowly as that chart alone would indicate.


I agree with most of these although likely disagree in detail. The problem with progressive taxation is it is scam. For example In 2018 we had 2,208 billionaire in the world worth 9.1 trillion dollars of 317 trillion (3%). In 2000 we had 470 worth about 1 trillion of 117 trillion USD (less 1% of total).

470 -> 2,208 increase by a factor of 4.4 (440%)

1% -> 3% increase by a factor of 3 (300%)

6b -> 7.7b increse of 28%

116,000/6 -> 317000/7.7 increase factor of 1.12 (112%)


Diversification of the top is fastest growing factor, yes there is a concentration but slower than the rate of which people are joining and with a significantly more wealth being added for the 99.9% of people(doubling and then some).

Progressive taxation may or may not affect the rate of concentration but not by much since that is not caused by having unfairly low taxation (in fact we find the opposite). It will however vastly affect the diversification factor as income is what is needed to go from 99.9% to 0.01%. So what you would certianly see is who is wealthy stays wealthy.


The income is often coming from offshore in the first place and second what do you think is more likely to be a new growing small business a new yacht company or one that makes a mass consumer product like groceries?


Kind of like how the government concentrates more and more wealth and gives especially nicely to those at the top they deemed more politically important?


That is why the fact we have more billionaire than most is to the American advantage. The US has 1.7 billionaires per million, China 0.3, France 0.5, Zimbabwe 0.05. Etc etc. In which country does the 0.01% hold more power the one with 585 or 1?

If anybody wants to see the corruption of capitalism...look to Moscow. Moscow has more billionaires (per capita ?) than any other city.

Tell me how in such a short time, that happened. Russian capitalist greed and corruption.
 
Some industries need to be big because they benefit a lot from economies of scale. Per instance, cars would a lot more expensive and affordable for far fewer people if they were produced by small businesses.

Some billionaires do great things with their money that would not otherwise get funded. Look at the work of Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Elon Musk.

I agree there is a problem, but simply getting rid of billionaires throws the baby out with the bath water. Generally speaking, I think it matters how they make their money and what they spend it on.

A 50% tax rate at over even $1 billion, trust me, would not 'get rid' of billionaires.

Here is an example: Bloomberg became mayor of NY worth $3.3 billion.

Then upon leaving the job, was worth $33 billion.

Then after investing some, that quickly became $50 billion.

Poor baby...only made another paltry $6 billion since then. $56 billion now.

50% tax would have him at a miserly $28 billion. How does one get by on that ?

Like I've written, there are no facts or extrapolation of fact, that justifies Warren Buffet

receiving $140 million per quarter from Coke Cola in stock dividends...and immorally taxed at 20%.
 
False claim.




Doens't matter what you selfishly want. Other people's incomes and wealth is none of your business.

But their tax rate is.
 
The medium household income in the US in 1985 was $22,259. Average house $116,506. Bread $0.76. Gas $1.19. Car $6,495.00. Tax $5,037. Including all government spending $6,285 was spent per citizen. GDP was 4.3T(7.9T - $33,193/person) and there was a 34% tax Burden.

Today that would be $52,138. The medium income is $59,055. So the average has saw an increase of 13%. The 1985 avg home price: $272,899(using general inflation is much higher depending one's area). Meanwhile the average new home sold in sqft went from 1,750 to 2,555 and the average sales price $225,900($96,441 in 1985 dollars) so there is also an overall increase in house buying power as that of one of the same buying power in 1985. Bread and Gas show they about flat in terms of relative buying power. The average new car now is $25,449, but look at your choices at $15,213 (power power of $6,495 in 2018) and there are still available car, so fair to people are buying 60% more luxury cars. Tax on $52,138 in 2018 is $3,823 which is an increase of $8,954(17%) of real world buying power. All levels of government spent $23,048/cit($9,839 in 1985 dollars) in other words the government is spending 56% more in services for citizens A 38% tax burden meaning taxes have raisen in real terms faster than growth regardless of rate change. GDP 19.39 T which means there is a $59,119 per person (78% more) in the total economic activity to access domestically. How can you say these significant relative buying power increases compared to average or even lowest income, higher government assistance and economic growth aren't bolstering the 'standard of living' for the average american post-1986?

I say these charts say all we need to know: growth equality


Or…people are lying with statistics by hiding that 'middle class life' is about buying power and now it is more available to more people for cheaper; people are coveting greater and greater wealth because our system is producing most rapidly very wealthy people from all sort of backgrounds which threatens though who like status and concentrated power.

My question for you. If most growth is global. How would that wealth make it to the average american if not for the ventures of the top 1%?

That is simply not the case. 60% of labor are break even or poorer than in 1980. Reagan got it all wrong and set out to destroy labor

and labor organizing. Unions now simply need to stay vigilant and fight just to keep what they have.
 
I read the Bible. I can clearly see that Lenin and his gang were out to foment unrest for the wicked purpose of seizing the country for Lenin and gang. All their talk about helping the poor was a ruse. The same thing is going on with modern American Bolsheviks. They are not interested in the poor. They are not interested in God bless America. They are interested in themselves.

However, it wasn't that long before Lenin felt that private markets and small business would be necessary.

He died before he could get it done. Then Stalin took over and it the writing was on the wall.
 
Ronald Reagan was exactly right. Leftist socialists have long been for government control of human lives. To leftists there is no God and men need the government to protect them and meet their ever increasing needs in a way that causes them the least expense and distress, even if it means dumping huge burdens and distresses on others. Socialist democrats invented the original medicare program with support from socialist republicans. Everybody is for affordable care but not everybody understands that medical costs are very expensive and, in government care programs, reaching epidemic fiscally strained unsustainable proportions.

How well is the US economy handling these huge Medicare costs today? This is from American Health Care: Health Spending and the Federal Budget American Health Care: Health Spending and the Federal Budget | Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget

Over the long term, the rising cost of federal health care spending is clearly unsustainable. Without a course correction, the result will be insolvency, crowding out important public priorities, and a growing federal debt.

Democrats giddily thought they had solved the growing medicare indebtedness crisis by creating the Obamacare tax, designed to raise huge money from young working Americans through mandated "premiums" most of them would not benefit from or add cost to the government from for decades.

Except that American capitalism is just fine with govt, run, single-payer insurance for:

banks FDIC, crops FCIC, pensions PBGC and overseas investors OPIC.

When will people finally realize that the biggest most damaging part of American exceptionalism not only the lack of compensation for labor,

but has created the richest socialists in history. See also TARP and the S&L bailout.

The $12 billion trump requested to compensate farmers for losses due to his tariffs is even more immoral socialism for the rich.
 
The guys with the glowing charts must have missed the suffering experience by Americans under the recession that turned a major corner once Trump got elected. I call some charting of cropped data "democrat porno graphs."
Sorry, the narrative that the economy was horrible all through the Obama years and then suddenly began climbing once Trump got elected, has no support in actual facts. Every measure of the economy improved under Obama -- unemployment fell to 4.7% from 10%. In fact, in 2012, Romney promised that if he were elected, he'd bring unemployment down to 6% by the end of his first term (2016.) Well, it was under 5% by then under Obama.

Moreover, there was steady GDP growth and stocks tripled. Thus, your belief that the economy was coming apart until Trump saved it is right-wing fantasy.
 
There were no rich at the Bolshevik revolution. There was the czar, his cronies and nothing else.

Communist collectivization ruined Russia. Under collectivization, the communists owned everything...including you.

We can thank God and republicans that nobody in America is now owned by brutal atheistic commie government oligarchs.
 
If anybody wants to see the corruption of capitalism...look to Moscow. Moscow has more billionaires (per capita ?) than any other city.

Tell me how in such a short time, that happened. Russian capitalist greed and corruption.
You’ll have to be more specific as to what you are referring. Russia had a lot of wealth to be seized post USSR which was centralized by opportunists, by no means has an impressive amount of billionaires. Moscow, If you’re going by city and comparing the top 10. Is 3rd by number 7th per capita.

Higher is: Dubai: 12.77. Hong Kong: 12.74. New York: 11.97, San Francisco: 10.57. Singapore:12.77. London 7.62.

Russia also has a flat tax. By the way, if you think Sweden [very strong progressive tax] has few billionaires you'd would be wrong. Sweden's 31 billionaires make it 3.1/M higher than the US at 1.9 but with many caveats. Sweden takes advantage of many of he principles I referred. That is same rate as California. New York has 4.67. As comparable regions.
 
However, it wasn't that long before Lenin felt that private markets and small business would be necessary.

He died before he could get it done. Then Stalin took over and it the writing was on the wall.

Stalin was like a professional atheistic politician of the west. He hated the 'deplorable' people in general but loved himself and tolerated those who supported him, whether he disrespectfully called them brain dead buffaloes or not.
 
Except that American capitalism is just fine with govt, run, single-payer insurance for:

banks FDIC, crops FCIC, pensions PBGC and overseas investors OPIC.

When will people finally realize that the biggest most damaging part of American exceptionalism not only the lack of compensation for labor,

but has created the richest socialists in history. See also TARP and the S&L bailout.

The $12 billion trump requested to compensate farmers for losses due to his tariffs is even more immoral socialism for the rich.

Trump has done more for the economy than any democrat in recent memory. Democrats do not like to admit it because that truth makes them look bad.
 
Sorry, the narrative that the economy was horrible all through the Obama years and then suddenly began climbing once Trump got elected, has no support in actual facts. Every measure of the economy improved under Obama -- unemployment fell to 4.7% from 10%. In fact, in 2012, Romney promised that if he were elected, he'd bring unemployment down to 6% by the end of his first term (2016.) Well, it was under 5% by then under Obama.

Moreover, there was steady GDP growth and stocks tripled. Thus, your belief that the economy was coming apart until Trump saved it is right-wing fantasy.

Democrats want to declare the Obama economy a huge success, when it was not. I understand. If Obama looked bad then their whole party and platform looks bad. Their whole party platform is bad. It is too bad so many Americans are not aware of that fact.
 
Democrats want to declare the Obama economy a huge success, when it was not. I understand. If Obama looked bad then their whole party and platform looks bad. Their whole party platform is bad. It is too bad so many Americans are not aware of that fact.
While I have provided metrics that prove my points, you merely repeat your narrative that proves nothing.
Here is more of those inconvenient metrics, from 2012.

[h=1]Here Are The Charts That Should Get Obama Reelected...[/h]

Before Obama took office, you will recall, the economy was in freefall, obliterated by tax cuts, runaway government spending, massive consumer debts, and regulation-be-damned culture of the prior administration.

As the attached charts show, the moment Obama arrived and implemented the stimulus, the economy began to improve. And it has gotten much, much better in the past four years.
 
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